The LAST OUTPOURING by David Wilkerson

hi,
I agree with David Wilkerson that their will be a great outpouring in the last days,when sin abounds grace more abounds.However I can see that their is a conflict with the teaching of the immenant return of Christ.I think I am missing something when it comes to Christs return and I cant marry up both teachings.If Jesus return is preceded by an end time outpouring that brings millions into the kingdom on the one hand and on the other Christ could come without any single event happening.....mmmmm
All been said I believe with all my heart that their will be an outpouring like what David Wilkerson has mentioned and I believe it is biblical.
I do think their is another important issue in play here.How does God bring about such a change in a worldwide generation of people?So that we are ready to be poured appon sort to speak.Staff

Oh, there is so much more! I thank God for the privilege of praying in an unknown tongue; it is my way of releasing all the pent-up praises to God in a communication beyond my understanding. But you can speak with the tongues of men and even angels, and without charity, you have received nothing. But I say it goes even deeper.

You are not truly baptized with the Holy Spirit until every hidden part of your soul has been exposed—and every sin confessed and forsaken.

Glory to God! I just love this mighty, humble man of God! He has been in the depths with God. When he speaks, I listen. He has the love of God in his heart.

I know the Holy Spirit has been showing me things that I need to repent of for the last several years. Things from my past that were totally gone out of my mind. I am so thankful for this as I don't want to have anything un-repented of on Judgment Day. And it is so much grace that He doesn't reveal it to me all at once either. Glory to God, I most likely couldn't stand. Even today I had to search my heart and ask God for forgiveness and to repent after reading W. Gurnall on being hypercritical. I cried my heart out as the Holy Spirit revealed things to me. I confessed and asked the Holy Spirit to help me. I know He will. Thank You so much Lord. You are so faithful to reveal and to help. You are our Creator/Heavenly Father, Savior & Convictor. We love and appreciate YOU so very much - The Trinity! Amen and all Glory to God!

"However I can see that their is a conflict with the teaching of the immenant return of Christ.I think I am missing something when it comes to Christs return and I cant marry up both teachings.If Jesus return is preceded by an end time outpouring that brings millions into the kingdom on the one hand and on the other Christ could come without any single event happening.....mmmmm"

Staff, you are right to raise this. For us,as christians, the only thing we look and wait for is the return of our Lord to take us to be with Him. There are no "events" which scripture says will preceed that, execpt "a falling away", and that had already started in Paul's time. "the mystery of iniquity doth already work" 2 Thess 2 . 7. An end time revival before His coming is not promised nor prophesied in scripture, but is certainly the earnest desire of christians.

David

Hi Davidc,One event that had to happen before Christs return was the destruction of the temple in ad70.
I have to disagree with you on whether a rivival is promised or prophesied.An outpouring of the spirit is scripturally prophesied and promisied through the end times ministry of Elijah.To the Jew of Jesus day prophesy was pattern not just prediction.I will send my prophet elijah before the great and terrible day of the lord.They are two different days.Jesus backs up this when he said that John the Baptist was Elijah but that Elijah would come again.
After saying all that the scriptures seems to say also that he could come at anytime which I dont fully understand yet but these two teachings dont seem to marry up.My thoughts about this at the moment is that I am missing something about the teaching of immenant return,staff

Staff, you write

"After saying all that the scriptures seems to say also that he could come at anytime which I dont fully understand yet but these two teachings dont seem to marry up.My thoughts about this at the moment is that I am missing something about the teaching of immenant return"

You are right that these teachings do not seem to marry up, and it is important that you find the answer by careful study of the sciptures.

By all means, read what commentators say on both sides, although you will find a lot of antagonism. But the bible is it's own interpretor, and with your eyes firmly fixed on the Lord, I believe you will discover what God is truly saying about the coming of the Lord. Amen, Come Lord Jesus.

David

hi Davidc,
I do believe that we are missing something about the teaching of immenant return.Their is antagonism on alot of scripture which their is no need for.Let not that stop us expounding the bible otherwise we will not discuss anything except love and so be ignorant.We know that the word of God does not contradict itself,so both teachings must marry up but it is our understanding of how that happens which is dim.We can study the scripture but without the helper to guide our study it will be futile.
Jesus could have returned anytime in the last 2000 yrs but waited for a time when the Jews had returned to Isreal,its a bit coincidental that he waited for that event to happen.I have no doubt that has the church began so will it end.When I read the account of John the Baptist and Pentecost it leaves me certain that once again the system will be challenged,the false prophets defeated and the spirit of god outpoured like it was on pentecost. So be it,Amen

Hi Staff

Regarding the imminent return of Jesus, which I firmly hold to and wait for, such a belief also presupposes a belief in the pre-trib rapture of the church.

The post trib view sees Christ coming to gather the christians together in the heavens after the seven years of tribulation and that the church will go through this time. Such a view sees Matthew 24 prophesies of the last days (the Abomination of desolation set up, the antichrist on earth and the false prophet deceiving the elect) as having to be fulfilled before He returns, and referring to the church.

The pre trib (my) view understands the Matthew 24 prophesies as referring to Israel and Jerusalem and the elect are the remnant of Jews who believe, through, and because of God's judgement, not the church which is now all in heaven. Pre trib teaching sees Revelation as the details of these seven years of tribulation, and one of the two witnesses in chap11 in the spririt and power of Elijah, the other as Moses: it all relates to the Gentiles, Jerusalem and the remnant there in those days of Jacob's trouble.

There is such a lot more, but maybe this is a help. Personally I found that the Lord brought me to understand both views and various others, and asked me to chose. I chose the pretrib doctrine as I believe only this teaching FULLY illuminates the WHOLE bible. Other beliefs, I found, tend to pick and chose passages which fit their belief system, or alternatively say that such things can not be known. Maybe I have done the same in chosing pre trib, but as I said I find it illuminates all the bible.

What makes all christians one is the work of the cross of Christ, His resurrection and our present oneness in Him by the Holy Spirit. So I am in no way antagonistic to others who have found another doctrine, but love them as brethren. But I honestly believe that the pre trib view is the fullest view of Christ in His present and future glory.

David

Hi David,
I always have trouble spelling that word imminent!
I hold to the view that Christ will come for his Church before the great tribulation which is three and half years in duration.This The first three and half years are the beginning of sorrows.
I believe that both witnesses do in fact come in the power of Elijah.Moses is not linked in anyway to a time measurement of three and a half or 42 months.Where as anytime Elijah,Elisha or John the Baptist are mentioned 42 always comes into play.i.e Elijah caused a judgement off no rain for three and a half years,Elisha caused a Judgement of Two bears on the 42 children and John the Baptist started Jesus's ministry which lasted three and a half years.All three people have the spirit of Elijah and are given as examples of what is to come.
The Spirit of Elijah which is really the Holy Spirit in a unique ministry will do what Elijah has done in the privious examples that is to bring Judgement on false religion(jezebel)Challenge the Antichrist(ahab) bring a holy outpouring(mt Carmel) and bring in a 42month Judgement which is the Great Tribulation.
The Great Tribulation is Instigated by God and is a Judgement brought in by God and ended by God and will last the second period of the 7years when the Anti Christ breaks the 7year peace treaty in the middle.At the time of the tribulation(3.5 yrs) the Church will be in heaven.
I have no doubt that their will be an outpouring in the end,I do have doubts about imminency and I will have to study that subject more diligently.Yours Staff

P.s the scriptures are just amazing

Hello Staff

Your post was so refreshing to me. There are so many christians now on this and other forums that hold post trib or covenant theology. .

I, personally understand from scripture that the church will be raptured before the 7 year tribulation,ie "the beginning of sorrows" and "the great tribulation. This is based on Daniel's prophesy chapter 9:

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." Dan 9:25-27 (KJV)

God's dealing in government with Israel (Daniel's people) ceased at the end to the 69th week when "messiah shall be cut off and have nothing"(lit)

The last week has been postponed in God's time until the fullness of the Gentiles is come in: ie the church is gathered.

Then He will recommence His dealings with Israel when the man of sin makes his covenant with them. I don't believe that God will have an overlap of dispensations, ie having the church on earth for 3.5 years and at the same time commencing His judgements on Israel.

Because of this, the imminency of Christ's coming for His church is our one hope; we are not waiting for other "signs". If we are waiting for His coming AND looking for fulfillments of prophesies (the signing by Israel of the covenant with death and the time of the two witnesses), then Christ's coming is not imminent, but is preceed by other signs.
No doubt the two witnesses will, through their prophesying turn many to the Lord, (and He has never left Himsef without witnesses), but this will not be the church or christians, but a gathering of the remnant of Israel.

I know there are those who see the child caught up to the throne, Rev 12, as a picture of the church's rapture immediately after the death of the two witnesses. But the seal judgements and the trumpet judgements come before this, and I am sure that God will not leave His Bride to undergo His judgements which are for Israel, but will take Her away before.

I could not follow what you meant by "a holy outpouring (mount carmel)". Perhaps you could clarify.

David

Hi David,
Firstly I in my opinion you can understand the endtimes as it relates to the church or to the Jews unless you understand the relationship of Elijah and The Antichrist.
I think this ministry is misunderstood and underplayed.
Firstly I heard it said that the Elijah ministry is a transitional ministry that over laps the end of one and the start off another for instance John ended the old testement and started the new .Secondly John the baptist is described by himself as friend of the groom.I found this discription of what a friend of the groom meant:

This is a cultural reference. The fiend of the bridegroom assisted the Jewish groom by making the prior arrangements for his marriage. He brought the couple together. Perhaps the reference in is verse to Johns standing and hearing the bridegroom paints the picture of the best friend of the groom waiting at the bride's home for the arrival of the groom.

Part of the preparation duties John had was to make sure the bride was ready.
Johns ministry overlapped dipensations and so will the two witnesses.Elijah overlapped two different eras two but it is so long since I studied it I cant remember the era's
The fire falling on mt carmel (fire meaning the holy spirit) and is a type of the spirit outpoured.
I would be classified has a mid trib but this is an innaccurate classification has the tribulation or time of judgement is 3.5 yrs or 1260 days or 42 months or time times and half a time.So in fact I do hold to pre trib view.
But if you study the end times without taking into account Elijah story in Kings and Ahab being a type of the antichrist or the relationship between Elijah and 42mths then you will miss most of the timing.I suggest you read the account again with ahab being a type of antichrist and jezebel being a type of false relgion.For instance Ahab wanted the vineyard and Jezebel helped get it for him but ELijah stepped in would look totally different,staff

Hello Staff

Your reply is very interesting and I will certainly study the passages. I see what you mean about John Baptist having an overlapping ministry, and I will see how this applies to Elijah. It may be a few days before I can reply.

The problem is that it does not include the doctrine of the imminence of Christ. But you said you would look again at this aspect. I think it is important that our hope and daily expectation is His return, and not any other event.

Love in Christ

David

hi all,Just had a thought today on imminence and maybe you can help me.Why have we prophets in the new testement?If they prophesy of an event surely that event has to pass before the lord returns or does it?

@ Greg Gordon's post dated Jan. 13 -

Yesssss! .. and Amen!

Hello again staff

I have looked into the scriptures about Elijah, Ahab and Jezebel, especially to link them with John Baptist and the two witnesses of the last days.

AHAB: I can see that as a king, he was more wicked than his predecessors, but I don't think he can be classed as a type of antichrist. After hearing Elijah's words, especially after the Naboth episode, he believed God and repented in sackcloth and ashes. This would in no way typify the antichrist.

JEZEBEL: She was in some ways worse than her husband, but under the law, the husband is responsible for the actions of his wife. She was certainly wicked and indulged in false religions, but again, I would not call her a "type of false religion" (I assume you mean relating to the second beast of Rev 13).

ELIJAH: The Lord called him in a time when Israel was in serious disobedience to God, to speak His word, and he moved in great power and signs. I was especially interested to read in 1 Kings 17, how he was sent for 3.5 years to a gentile widow woman and her son. If we see the fulfillment of Elijahs ministry in the first half of the tribulation, ( forgive my calling the whole week the tribulation and the second half the great tribulation), I believe the two winesses ministry will be to the woman (Israel) and her son (the remnant in Israel who belive in Christ at that time).

I do not see Elijah's ministry in any way as an "overlapping one". If so with whom?. He ministered in the reign of Ahab and the kings that followed him; there was no change of dispensation during his monistry, which would indicate an overlap.

JOHN BAPTIST; The angel announcing his birth said: "he shall go before him(Christ) in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; Luke 1:17 (KJV). This was the "Elijah to come" ministry prophesied in Malachi: "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers" Mal 4:5-6 (KJV). But when asked by the preists and levites from Jerusalem: "Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not" John 1:21 (KJV). He confessed to being just a voice. His ministry did overlap the Lord's, but only for one or possibly two years; not 3.5 years.

TWO WITNESSES: In Rev ch 11, these are given power to prophesy for 3.5 years, the first half of Daniel's 70 th week. Their location is Jerusalem or the surrounding area, although Jerusalem is surrounded by the Gentile armies at this time, only the inner temple is left untouched. Their prophesying is a witness to Jerusalem. If the type of Elijah and the widow is taken as fulfilled here, Jerusalem is the widow, and her son the remnant of Jews who believe at this post church age. They are put to death by the beast, and all see them rise and ascend to heaven. An earhtquake kills a tenth of the city, but the remnant fear and give glory to the God of Israel. All speaks of Israel and Jerusalem here, not a church revival. The Elijah ministry, "to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to the fathers", can not in any way be seen as a picture of new birth or christian revival; rather it is jewish terminology and a promise to the remnant of Israel.
After this, in chapter 12, the woman is seen clearly as Israel: "a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:" Rev 12:1 (KJV). See Joseph's dream Gen 37 v 9.Her son is caught up to heaven, Satan is cast down to earth, and the beast enters and defiles the temple.

Sorry this is so long, but as I can see no teaching that Elijah had an overlapping ministry, I must continue to believe that his fulfilled ministry under the two witnesses is for Israel and Jerusalem and not the church. The true church, as I have said before is caught up to be with Christ before this last of Daniel's 70 weeks.

Maranatha

David

Hi David,you make many points here some are easier to respond to than others.It will take me a little time,bear with me and I will get back to you,thanks staff

Hi David,I think I have covered most of the points except Elijah and Gentile woman.But he was sent to both her and her son not just her son.

JOHN THE BAPTIST:
This is what Jesus said of John

Matthew 17.10 to 17.13

And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Jesus confirms that John the Baptist had fulfilled the duties of Elijah in the Spirit of Elijah.Interestingly this passage says that Elijah had come but he is coming again to restore all things.This was spoken after Johns death.Also John did overlap the dispensations from law to grace which is what his name means grace.

ELIJAH:
We miss out on something very important in Kings because of the chapter division between 16 and 17.Elijah wasnt sent because of serious diobendence of Isreal but because of serious disobedience of Ahab.The reason Elijah is sent is explained at the end of chapter 16.Elijah is sent because he married Jezebel and worshipped baal.
Again the 1260 day judgement in Revelations is instigated by God not the antichrist.God responded to Ahab once he did that none of the other Kings had dared to do.
Also their is no dispensation change between Elijah and Elisha but elijah is the last of one type of prophet and the first type of another.Thats the transition.John was the last old testement prophet and the first preacher of the Gospel and the two witnesses are a transition from grace back to law as it relates to Judgement.

JEZEBEL:
Strongs con:The name means Jezebel = "Baal exalts" or "Baal is husband to" or "unchaste
Eastmans Dictionary:Her name afterwards came to be used as the synonym for a wicked woman (Rev 2:20).

Jezebel means married to baal and all wicked women in the bible in some way tell us something about the false religous system at the end time.I read somewhere that baal has some link to antichrist.
AHAB
Ahab is a political power married to Jezebel similar to the woman riding the beast.When Abraham offered his son to be sacrificed it is commonly recognised has God sacrificing his son.However not every other thing Abraham did was a type;so just because Ahab wore sack cloth doesnt mean he wasnt a type of the antichrist.So not every thing about Abraham typfies God and not every thing about David typfies Christ and not every thing about Saul Herod or Ahab typfies the anti christ.Using the search engine on this web I see that many christians view Ahab and Jezebel are synonomous with Anti Christ and Jezebel.

Pattern or coincidence?

ELIJAH-POLITICAL POWER AHAB-EVIL WOMEN JEZEBEL WITH A FALSE RELIGOUS SYSTEM 45O PROPHETS OF BAAL-42 MONTH JUDGEMENT and a Rapture

JOHN THE BAPTIST-AN EVIL POLITICAL POWER HEROD-A FALSE RELIGOUS SYSTEM -JESUS MINISTRY OF 3.5 YRS and a rapture

TWO WITNNESSES-AN EVIL POLITICAL POWER ANTICHRIST-A FALSE RELIGOUS SYSTEM-42 MONTH JUDGEMENT and a rapture

3.5 yrs,1260 days,time times and half a time and 42 month are only linked to ministry of elijah.
The Good news for me is that through the Ministry of the Two witnesses God will bring outpouring and Judgement.We will have of course outpourings in the mean time but not on that scale.Elijah will make it Rain again!Amen

Hello Staff

Thank you for your interesting and reasoned reply. The trouble is that the result of this doctrine is that you finish your message with:

"The Good news for me is that through the Ministry of the Two witnesses God will bring outpouring and Judgement.We will have of course outpourings in the mean time but not on that scale.Elijah will make it Rain again!Amen"

So your expectation and your hope is fixed on the arrival in this world of the two witnesses, their preaching and a subsequent great revival. Such a revival does not appear anywhere in Revelation 11 during or after their ministry. Can you show me where you read of this revival?

Also by having in your heart an expectation and hope of such a prophesied future event, it is no wonder that your eyes are being dimmed to the imminence of Christ's return. He alone is our true treasure. His return at any time (today) should be our only hope. We must all as individual christians (myself included) beware of any teaching which turns our hearts away from Him and Him alone.

David

Hi David,No my hope is in the lord alone as it was the only hope that John or Elijah had or indeed the two witnesses will say what all christians should say that its all about Jesus.
The two witnesses one of which is by almost all commentarys is seen has Elijah in some form.Elijahs ministry involves withholding and giving rain on Gods behalf.The rain falling is a type of outpouring.The rain would not come unless everything was correct and in order.The rain withheld is a type of Judgement.
All Isreal went out to see Elijah on Mt Carmel and All Judea went out to see John(with the mantle of Elijah) in the Wilderness.In the future all the world will hear the two witness.We know this because they gave each other presents at their death.As with any preaching of the gospel some people will listen and some wont but these two will have power to cause Judgements as they preach making them christians not to be messed with sort to speak.Through Elijah Isreal changed course,through John the church was born and through the Two witnesses all things will be restored,theirs the rivival.

Jesus said Elijah would come again and restore all things.
Where in your opinion does this happen and when and what does elijah restore?
I am not waiting however for that outpouring and if the meantime the Lord gives us revival amen.
As for imminence I am still studying that but am stuck on what do we need new testement prophets for.!
thanks Staff
P.s
We must not shy away from preaching whats in the bible.This teaching does not turn our hearts away from him it makes him even bigger in my eyes that he can plan out everything so brilliantly!The word says that Elijah would turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and vica versa.If Jesus said their is a future coming that good enough for me.Praise the lord