Video for Rapture incorrect !

Hi All,I would like you to be a berean and check out the scripture on what I am about to say.
I was thinking about scripture today and I believe the lord pointed this out to me about the Rapture.
I looked at a video about the rapture and it showed christians dissapearing instantly in the twinkling of an eye,leaving the unsaved behind.The istant part I believe is incorrect and unscriptural.
Lets look at these examples of rapture to heaven we have in the bible.These examples will tell the nature of the rapture.It will be quick but not instantaneous.People of the world will have enough time to observe christians rising in the air.
So what about 1 Cor 15?The twinkling of an eye refers to the changing of our corruptable bodies into immortal incorruptable bodies and is part of the rapture.The rapture could take seconds or a minute or minutes which will be observed as we see in the examples below.
1.Elijah
2Kings2:10 And he said , Thou hast asked a hard thing : nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so. 11 And it came to pass, as they still went on , and talked , that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried ,
2.Jesus
Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld , he was taken up ; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up , behold , two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said , Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
3.Two Witnesses
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

1 COR 15 51 Behold , I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep , but we shall all be changed , 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound , and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed .

WHY IS THIS IMMPORTANT?
An observed rapture must have a major effect on the people left behind,seeing their family,friends workmates rising in the air etc.They may even be able to see their immortal bodies before they go!

staff wrote:
WHY IS THIS IMMPORTANT?
An observed rapture must have a major effect on the people left behind, seeing their family, friends workmates rising in the air etc. They may even be able to see their immortal bodies before they go!

Please forgive me if I'm wrong and have patience with me while you show me where this can be found in Scripture.

God bless you,
Lisa

Hi Lysa,good debate is very important and it is important that what i am saying is scriptural.I'll answer the question but first ill ask you a question?
Where in scripture does it show that the rapture is unobserved?
I looked at the previous raptures to see what could be learned about the subject.In the three I mentioned,none were instantaneous,all appeared to take a short amount of time but did not happen the way we suppose bang and the christions are gone.I then thought of the cor 15 and realized the twinkling of an eye was in relation to our bodies been changed rather than directly to the rapture.
I do make a supposition that it is important; maybe it isnt important whether it is observed or not.
I believe to find out what the rapture is going to be like you have to accumalate the knowledge given to us about previous raptures.All other raptures recorded except enoch(which doesnt say) show an observed rapture.
I appreciate your reply,Staff

Hi, I Saw it on youtube I think.Where their in a church and then all of a sudden most people just dissappear and some are left.I'll try and track it down.Their is quite a few on the rapture.
I just checked there now and their is a similar one called (the rapture left behind coming of christ) but thats not the one I saw.It has the same message though bang and we are gone and non christians are left behind.
I see another just called The Rapture which highlights (the twinkling of an eye)which if what I am saying is correct is a wrong intreptation of 1 Cor 15.
Basically I am saying the twinkling of an eye is only part of the rapture,staff
I try and track down the exact video.

Hi I got it,its call The Rapture-Mustsee.Its 7.24 mins long.Its in the first minute or so of the video,staff

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Accompanied by; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

These have no need of Judgement that is to come later, these are already judged and Christ knows His own and His Sheep hear His voice and know that it is Him. This first coming for the Body of Christ His Church guarantees His second coming to Judge the world and reign as earthly King. He is already King to those that are His and Him setting with His Father on the Throne in Heaven where we the sheep of His fold are already seated in the Heavenlies with Him.

In Christ: Phillip

Dear Staff,

I have had thoughts along this subject also. Look at Matt. 24:36-44, I would read all of 24, but it say two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.
Again this could be a slow ascent to the sky or not.
I've even had thoughts about us dieing and our Spirits being the glorified bodys, but I don't think scripture supports this.
Just some other verses and food for thought.

In Love,
Joe

Hi Philip,Thank you for your post.Forgive me but I am
not sure the point you are making.I believe in the Rapture.What I dont believe is the instantaneous Rapture.

Definition of INSTANTANEOUS
1: done, occurring, or acting without any perceptible duration of time

When you read 1 Cor 15 it tells us that our bodies are changed in the TWINKLING OF AN EYE.This is only part of the rapture;the other part is the travelling upawards in the air.
For years I just went along with the bang and we are gone view but now I realize it is just not scriptural,Staff

Hi,thanks for your reply,
In a nutshell My point is this:
The reason that most people think that the rapture is not visible to non christians is because they say that the rapture was instantaneous in the twinkling of an eye.
However it is clear that the twinkling of an eye refers only to our transformation.Because the rising up in the air will take some time and is not instantaneous the non christians will be able to see the christians rapture.

I will look again carefully at mat 24,staff

FOR TRUTH'S SAKE...

May all who've an interest go to:

http://www.ligonier.org/rym/broadcasts/video/rapture

hey ya, Staff!!

I must first apologize , in my bias I only read half your post and then focused on the last paragraph. I am sorry. I get aggravated when others do it and then I go and do it!! (huge grin)

Upon further reading on your notes I took to work with me, I found I do agree with one sentence in your original post...

The instant part I believe is incorrect and unscriptual ."

God bless you, Staff,
Lisa

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Buckle up. No easy escapism. We are not appointed unto wrath, but we are promised persecution and tribulation.

The Lord will purify His Bride.

He is only coming once....not twice....at the end.

Hi,Thank you for your reply.
I am sorry but you missed my point totally.For this post I did not take a pre,mid or post rapture or ressurection view.I do have a view but for this post it is not nessacary.
I just pointed out that when we go in the air to meet Christ it wont be instantaneous but will take some small amount of time.The twinkling of an eye sentence refers to the changing of our bodies to incoruptable ones.
Also because it will take time and is not instantaneous non christians will see us rising in the air probably with our glorious bodies.
If you get time could you read my posts again and I think you will find out what I am saying is scriptural and you will get a blessing,Staff

Hi Savannah,
I had a look at the video.I thought the speaker was excellent in his tone and delivery of his message.Very easy to listen too and understand.I liked his style.
I think you and he should look at what I am saying here because what I have said would shoot the whole preterists view out of the water if that view involves a secret rapture.
What I said is that it is not secret because the sentence used 1 cor 15 twinkling of an eye refers only to the changing of the bodies which is instantaneous.The going up in the air will take some small amount of time and so be visible.It could be seconds or minutes but because it is not instantaneous it is visible.
Also our other examples of going to heaven Elijah,Jesus and the two witness were observed,Staff

Quote:

"The Lord will purify His Bride."

She is already purified. Is His Blood not good enough?

She does not have to go through tribulation, He already did.

Ephesians 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave Himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Only He can sanctify and cleanse the Bride and that was accomplished by His Work on the Cross.

Are we not the Father's offspring? Are we not sons of God?
How much more must the Bride suffer to have no sport or wrinkle? She does not, we are already His glorious Church and already cleansed by His Blood.

In Christ: Phillip

We have a walk to walk. We are to experience sanctification and holiness. We are to experience His life. It is His work in us, we cannot make ourselves holy.

Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

Be willing to deny yourself, pick up your cross and suffer.

And God uses suffering of all kinds.

1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

God is my only Father that knows the way I should go. He will discipline me and my obedience will come from the things I suffer. He is conforming me to the image of His Son and all believers. He makes His abode with me and His Son is birthed in me and the Holy Spirit is in me forever.
How much else could I want, heirs with Christ of heaven and our Father is God Himself, as is the rest of the package. We have all we can get, it was given us when we were born again. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who liveth in me. This is my life and my all in all and we are the Bride of Christ already seated in the Heavenlies by Faith, with Christ on His Throne and that Throne is where "our Father" is and He has sent the Holy Spirit to conform us to His Sons Image.

I don't need the tribulation for this to happen, it is already "DONE", "FINISHED". The only time I will be in the tribulation is when we all come with Christ to judge the Nations and set up His Kingdom on this earth for 1000 years we will rule and reign with Jesus Christ of life and freedom and rest, His rest, not the Sabbath physically.

Hebrews 5:8 Though He were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He suffered;

Our Father will not provoke His children to wrath.
Ephesians 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Gaebelein speaks of the precious promises we already have in Christ. We are the Glory of the Father the express image of Him by the Son that is in us. God prepared this to happen even before the foundation of the world for us to be in Christ Eph 1:4

Quote:

Interesting is the quotation from Isa 64:4. The prophet speaks of the inability of man to know what God hath prepared in His infinite grace and love for them that love Him. It was hidden from the Prophet. None of them beheld the great truths of the Church as the body of Christ nor the glory connected with it. But now this is changed. God hath revealed it through His Spirit. The Spirit has come and He has made known the hidden wisdom of God. Through Him and His blessed testimony in the Word we know "the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him." And these things are in Christ. The church is going to share with Him the glory which He has received. And the Spirit in the believer is searching all things, yea, the deep things of God. So the Spirit of God Himself leads the child of God deeper and deeper into this wisdom of God. The more we learn of it, the more we enter into the deep things in blessed fellowship with the Father and the Son, the more we desire to know. This should be for the child of God, the greatest thing--the Spirit in him searching out the deep things of God. The excuse some Christians make of their inability to grasp certain truths, when they say "it is too deep for me," dishonors the indwelling Spirit. For our poor, little minds all is "too deep;" but not for the Spirit of God.

The things of God cannot be known, save by the Spirit of God. This blessed gift is bestowed upon the believer, so that he can know the things which are freely given to him of God. And these deep and spiritual revelations were transmitted by chosen instruments. "Which things also we speak, not in the words which mans wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth, comparing (or communicating) spiritual things with spiritual"

Christ in us the Hope of Glory: Col 1:27

In Christ and His Glory of the Father by all that God has given us. Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

WE are the glory of the Father and the Son. We are loved as the Father loves the Son. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; Perfect will not go through the tribulation. This is the reason Jesus in obedience went to the Cross; Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
Things only the Holy Spirit can reveal to us, Christ in us, we the Glory of the Father? WOW, That is what Christ did on the Cross and much, much more that will be revealed when we are able to receive it.

In Christ; Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Phillip the perfection of Christ in us, and we in Him. Our perfection and glory come through me as He is. It is He in whom we live and move and have our being.

Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Thessalonians 2:8 So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.

May I say you are all dear unto me also. In Christ: Phillip

Christinyou,

You say a lot of good things. Just wanted to add that we are all in tribulation right now. If you are denying your flesh and bearing your cross you are experiencing a form of tribulation. If you are suffering for Christ's sake, if all men don't speak well of you, if you are being mocked, avoided, rejected, then you are experiencing tribulation.

Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Rom 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

We will learn obedience by the things we suffer just like Jesus. The servant is not greater than the Master and as He is in this world so are we, as we are called to follow in His steps.

Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Jas 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

Jas 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

Jas 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: