End Times According to the Bible - Radio Show

Refuting Preterism -

http://www.pfrs.org/preterism/index.html & left column.

http://legacybooksandmusic.com/PretExposedBook.pdf

Do a Search on, "dangers of preterism".

Reposting ECF post-70 A.D. (in part) -

Justin Martyr (A.D. 110-165)

"Two advents of Christ have been announced: the one, in which He is set forth as suffering, inglorious, dishonored, and crucified; but the other, in which He shall come from heaven with glory, when the man of apostasy, who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians, ... Now it is evident that no one can terrify or subdue us who have believed in Jesus over all the world. For it is plain that, though beheaded, and crucified, and thrown to wild beasts, and chains, and fire, and all other kinds of torture, we do not give up our confession; but the more such things happen, the more do others and in larger numbers become faithful, and worshippers of God through the name of Jesus." [Dialog with Trypho, CX]

Irenaeus: Discipled by Polycarp who was discipled by John. (AD. 120-202)

"Moreover, another danger, by no means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they know the name of Antichrist. For if these men assume one [number], when this [Antichrist] shall come having another, they will be easily led away by him, as supposing him not to be the expected one, who must be guarded against. These men, therefore, ought to learn [what really is the state of the case], and go back to the true number of the name, that they be not reckoned among false prophets. But, knowing the sure number declared by Scripture, that is, six hundred sixty and six, let them await, in the first place, the division of the kingdom into ten; then, in the next place, when these kings are reigning, and beginning to set their affairs in order, and advance their kingdom, [let them learn] to acknowledge that he who shall come claiming the kingdom for himself, and shall terrify those men of whom we have been speaking, having a name containing the aforesaid number, is truly the abomination of desolation. ... It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the fulfillment of the prophecy, than to be making surmises, and casting about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many names can be found possessing the number mentioned; and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved. ... But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this "man" comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: ... But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this "man" and those who follow "him" into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." [Irenaeus: Against Heresies, Book V, XXX]

" an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God; and that, although a mere slave, he wishes himself to be proclaimed as a king. For he being endued with all the power of the devil, shall come, not as a righteous king, nor a legitimate king in subjection to God, but an impious, unjust, and lawless 'one'; as an apostate, iniquitous, and murderous, as a robber, concentrating in himself satanic apostasy, and seeking aside idols to persuade that he himself is God raising up himself as the only idol, having in himself the multifarious errors of the other idols. This he does, in order that they who do worship the devil by means of many abominations, may serve himself by this one idol, of whom the apostle thus speaks in the second Epistle to the Thessalonians."

"And there is therefore in this beast, when he ( Antichrist ) comes, a recapitulation made of all sorts of iniquity and of every deceit, in order that all apostate power, flowing into and being shut up in him, may be sent into the furnace of fire...since he sums up in his own person all the commixture of wickedness which took place previous to the deluge, due to the apostasy of the angels."

"In a still clearer light has John, in the Apocalypse, indicated to the Lord’s disciples what shall happen in the last times, and concerning the ten kings who shall then arise...These have one mind, and give their strength and power to the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, because He is the Lord of lords, and King of kings...And they (Ten Kings) shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the church to flight. After that they shall be destroyed by the coming of our Lord.” [Against Heresies V, XXVI, 1]

"But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes we may avoid him, being aware of who he is:...But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple in Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that “many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” [Against Heresies V, XXX, 2, 4]

"For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to the resurrection of the just, which takes place after the coming of the Antichrist, and the destruction of nations under his rule; in (the times of) which (resurrection) the righteous shall reign on the earth...and those whom the Lord shall find in the flesh, awaiting Him from heaven, and who have suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked 'one' (Antichrist)." [Against Heresies V, XXXV, 1]

Hippolytus: Bishop of Portus, was a disciple of Irenaeus who was discipled by Polycarp who was discipled from John.(AD. 170-236)

"As these things, then, are in the future, and as the ten toes of the image are equivalent to (so many) democracies, and the ten horns of the fourth beast are distributed over ten kingdoms, let us look at the subject a little more closely, and consider these matters as in the clear light of a personal survey. The golden head of the image and the lioness denoted the Babylonians; the shoulders and arms of silver, and the bear, represented the Persians and Medes; the belly and thighs of brass, and the leopard, meant the Greeks, who held the sovereignty from Alexander’s time; the legs of iron, and the beast dreadful and terrible, expressed the Romans, who hold the sovereignty at present; the toes of the feet which were part clay and part iron, and the ten horns, were emblems of the kingdoms that are yet to rise; the other little horn that grows up among them meant the Antichrist in their midst; the stone that smites the earth and brings judgment upon the world was Christ." [Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 27,28]

It is proper that we take the Holy Scriptures themselves in hand, and find out from them what, and of what manner, the coming of Antichrist is; on what occasion and at what time that impious one shall be revealed; and whence and from what tribe (he shall come); and what his name is, which is indicated by the number in Scripture; and how he shall work error among the people, gathering them from the ends of the earth; and (how) he shall stir up tribulation and persecution against the saints; and how he shall glorify himself as God; and what his end shall be; and how the sudden appearing of the Lord shall be revealed from heaven; and what the conflagration of the whole world shall be; and what the glorious and heavenly kingdom of the saints is to be, when they reign together with Christ; and what the punishment of the wicked by fire...With respect to his name, it is not in our power to explain it exactly, as the blessed John understood it and was instructed about it, but only to give a conjectural account of it; for when he appears, the blessed one will show us what we seek to know... Wherefore we ought neither to give it out as if this were certainly his name, nor again ignore the fact that he may not otherwise be designated. But having the mystery of God in our heart, we ought in fear to keep faithfully what has been told us by blessed prophets, in order that when those things come to pass, we may be prepared for them, and not be deceived. For when the times advance, he too, of whom these things are said, will be manifest...Now concerning the tribulation of the persecution which is to fall upon the Church from the adversary, John also speaks thus, "And I saw a great and wondrous sign in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, ... And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent”...That refers to the one thousand two hundred and threescore days (the half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the Church.... These things then, being come to pass, beloved, and the one week being divided into two parts, and the abomination of desolation being manifested then, and the two prophets and forerunners of the Lord having finished their course, and the whole world finally approaching the consummation, what remains but the coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ from heaven, for whom we have looked in hope." [Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 5, 50, 60, 61, 64]

"on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion; Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king. The Savior was manifested as a lamb; so he too in like manner, will appear as a lamb, though within he is a wolf. The Savior came into the world in the circumcision, and he will come in the same manner. The Lord sent apostles among all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. The Savior gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad, and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Lord gave a seal to those who believed on Him; and he will give one in like manner. The Savior appeared in the form of man, and he too will come in the form of a man. The Savior raised up and showed His holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem."

"He ( Antichrist )will be harsh, severe, passionate, wrathful, terrible, inconstant, dread, morose, hateful, abominable, savage, vengeful, iniquitous. And, bent on casting the whole race of men into the pit of perdition, he will multiply false signs."

“When the times are fulfilled, and the ten horns spring from the beast in the last (times), then Antichrist will appear among them. When he makes war against the saints, and persecutes them, then may we expect the manifestation of the Lord from heaven. [Fragments from Commentaries, II, 7]

"shall be sent through every city and country to destroy the faithful; and the saints shall travel from the west to the east, and shall be driven in persecution from the east to the south, while others shall conceal themselves in the mountains and caves; and the abomination shall war against them everywhere, and shall cut them off by the sea and by land by his decree, and shall endeavor by every means to destroy them out of the world; and they shall not be able any longer to sell their own property, nor to buy from strangers, unless one keeps and carries with him the name of the beast, or bears its mark upon his forehead. For then they shall all be driven out from place to place, and dragged from their own homes and haled into prison, and punished with all manner of punishment, and cast out from the whole world." These shall awake to everlasting life."

Tertullian (c. 160 - 225)

“...that the city of fornication may receive from the ten kings its deserved doom, and that the beast Antichrist, with his false prophet may wage war on the Church of God...Since, then, the Scriptures both indicate the stages of the last times, and concentrate on the harvest of the Christian hope in the very end of the world ...Now the privilege of this favor (the resurrection) awaits those who shall at the coming of the Lord be found in the flesh, and who shall, owing to the oppressions of the time of Antichrist, deserve by an instantaneous death, which is accomplished by a sudden change, to become qualified to join the rising saints...” [On the Resurrection of the Flesh, XXV, 7 and XLI]

Lactantius (260-330)

"He ( Antichrist ) shall harass the word with an intolerable rule; shall mingle things divine and human; shall contrive things impious to relate, and detestable; shall meditate new designs in his breast, that he may establish the government for himself; he will change the laws, and appoint his own; he ( Antichrist )will contaminate, plunder, spoil, and put to death."

Edited, to add.

'remember Eve'? I do.

John 19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: 34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw [it] bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

From Matthew Henry:

'(2.) But God had a further design herein, which was,

[1.] To give an evidence of the truth of his death, in order to the proof of his resurrection. If he was only in a trance or swoon, his resurrection was a sham; but, by this experiment, he was certainly dead, for this spear broke up the very fountains of life, and, according to all the law and course of nature, it was impossible a human body should survive such a wound as this in the vitals, and such an evacuation thence.

[2.] To give an illustration of the design of his death. There was much of mystery in it, and its being solemnly attested (v. 35) intimates there was something miraculous in it, that the blood and water should come out distinct and separate from the same wound; at least it was very significant; this same apostle refers to it as a very considerable thing, 1 John v. 6, 8.

First, the opening of his side was significant. When we would protest our sincerity, we wish there were a window in our hearts, that the thoughts and intents of them might be visible to all. Through this window, opened in Christ's side, you may look into his heart, and see love flaming there, love strong as death; see our names written there. Some make it an allusion to the opening of Adam's side in innocency. When Christ, the second Adam, was fallen into a deep sleep upon the cross, then was his side opened, and out of it was his church taken, which he espoused to himself. See Eph. v. 30, 32. Our devout poet, Mr. George Herbert, in his poem called The Bag, very affectingly brings in our Saviour, when his side was pierced, thus speaking to his disciples:—

If ye have any thing to send, or write

(I have no bag, but here is room),

Unto my Father's hands and sight

(Believe me) it shall safely come.

That I shall mind what you impart,

Look, you may put it very near my heart;

Or, if hereafter any of my friends

Will use me in this kind, the door

Shall still be open; what he sends

I will present, and somewhat more,

Not to his hurt. Sighs will convey

Any thing to me. Hark, Despair, away.

Secondly, The blood and water that flowed out of it were significant. 1. They signified the two great benefits which all believers partake of through Christ-justification and sanctification; blood for remission, water for regeneration; blood for atonement, water for purification. Blood and water were used very much under the law. Guilt contracted must be expiated by blood; stains contracted must be done away by the water of purification. These two must always go together. You are sanctified, you are justified, 1 Cor. vi. 11. Christ has joined them together, and we must not think to put them asunder. They both flowed from the pierced side of our Redeemer. To Christ crucified we owe both merit for our justification, and Spirit and grace for our sanctification; and we have as much need of the latter as of the former, 1 Cor. i. 30. 2. They signified the two great ordinances of baptism and the Lord's supper, by which those benefits are represented, sealed, and applied, to believers; they both owe their institution and efficacy to Christ. It is not the water in the font that will be to us the washing of regeneration, but the water out of the side of Christ; not the blood of the grape that will pacify the conscience and refresh the soul, but the blood out of the side of Christ. Now was the rock smitten (1 Cor. x. 4), now was the fountain opened (Zech. xiii. 1), now were the wells of salvation digged, Isa. xii. 3. Here is the river, the streams whereof make glad the city of our God.'

And the death-destroying flood from the cross, was prefigured in the crossing of Jordan, where a way was made through the waters which reached up to beyond [the city of] Adam.

Hebrews 9:23 [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Joshua 3:16 that the waters stand; those coming down from above have risen--one heap, very far above Adam the city, which [is] at the side of Zaretan; and those going down by the sea of the plain, the Salt Sea, have been completely cut off; and the people have passed through over-against Jericho; (YLT)

Brothers and sisters, we are the second Eve through His wondrous death for us.

May we receive His grace to overcome [sin].

'remember Eve'?

Do a Search on, "dangers of preterism".

You can't throw all Preterist in the same box and you can't put all dispensationalist in the same category. All of them are different.

There are many that believe in a partial preterist view point that even the most dedicated believer can understand. With a partial preterist view, they believe in a future coming of the Lord and the rapture and a future resurrection. Whereas, a Preterist believes in all scripture is fulfilled and there is no prophecy from scriptures that need to be fulfilled. Hyper preterism on the other hand is totally off the wall in every respect so I won't even bother with the description.

So to put all Preterist into one basket as "dangerous", we may as well put all "dispensationalist" in one basket as dangerous as well, because not everything that believers who hold to a dispensational teaching are all correct either, in fact, some of them are down right scary.

I had to put that caution out there because not every teaching is bad, we need to hold to whatever we believe is the truth, and there are many.

Someone who can only digest veggies cannot in any way digest meat. If meat is given, meat is rejected instantly. Is the meat bad? It could be, but just because we can't swallow it doesn't mean it's bad, it just means that we can't digest it right now.

I am on the fence for all views, because as I said earlier, there are too many questions that require answers that none of these above teachings are sufficient in answering.

Whether someone is pre-mid or post, they all have the basics of what will happen in the last days in common - preterists don't and that's what scares me 'for' them. If we truly Love His Body, we'll care.

There was a time when I would do a whole thread on the signs of the times - the prophecies from O.T. through to the N.T.. Before computers, I had hand written every last-days prophecy into a notebook and after getting a computer, almost 20 yrs later, I put it all into a file... But - only approx 2 yrs ago, I felt the LORD tell me - "That's it. No more." It's posted somewhere on SI but I don't remember what the name of the thread was. It doesn't matter now, because I got the message. It was based upon this verse and A.T. Robertson's Greek exegesis of it ...

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

A.T. Robertson == "Let him do unrighteousness still (adikēsatō eti). First aorist (constative) active imperative of adikeō, viewed here as a whole. The language is probably ironical, with a reminder of Dan_12:10, in no sense a commendation of their lost estate.
It is the hopelessness of the final state of the wicked which is here pictured. So as to “Let him 'be made' filthy still” (rupanthētō eti). First aorist (constative) passive imperative of rupainō, old verb, to make foul or filthy (from rupos, filth, 1Pe_3:21, as is ruparos, filthy), here only in N.T. The use of eti is not perfectly clear, whether “still” or “yet more.” It is the time when Christ has shut the door to those outside who are now without hope (Mat_25:10; Luk_13:25). Ruparos occurs elsewhere in N.T. only in Jam_2:2, and ruparia (filthiness) only in Jam_1:21. So then “the righteous” (ho dikaios) is to do righteousness still (dikaiosunēn poiēsatō eti, first constative aorist active imperative of poieō) and “the holy” (ho hagios) to 'be made'; holy still (hagiasthētō eti, first constative aorist passive imperative of hagiazō). The states of both the evil and the good are now fixed forever. There is no word here about a “second chance” hereafter."

It's up to the individual now - whether they'll seek His Spirit of Truth with His WORD wide open or they won't.

I seem to only debate when I get tears in my eyes over what someone has posted, that they themselves believe, and then try my best to follow Paul's advice in Titus 3:10.

The few Early Church Father's quotes, posted above, are only those that pertain to the antiChrist, for this reason.

G139
αιρεσις
hairesis
Thayer Definition:
1) act of taking, capture: e.g. storming a city
*2) choosing, choice
*3) that which is chosen
4) a body of men following their own tenets (sect or party)
4a) of the Sadducees
4b) of the Pharisees
4c) of the Christians
5) dissensions arising from diversity of opinions and aims
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G138 ...

G138
αιρέομαι
aihreomai
Thayer Definition:
1) to take for oneself, to prefer, choose
2) to choose by vote, elect to office

Savannah, my main point of concern was your belief, and propagation of that belief, that Nero was the antiChrist.
That leaves you and whomever believes you Open to deception and the strong delusion, which is here and increasing daily.
We are on the cusp of many end-time events - one of which may very well be a war and even as the ECF wrote - this war could bring this antiChrist to power.
Besides the "mark" needed in order to buy or sell.
'That' is what many preterists, or those who take a historical view of eschatology have to face, but how will they?

If someone cares about you and has stated that twice so far, do you call them Eve?

What you are doing by pushing this teaching upon men and women is just as bad as what you feel that any "Eves" here are doing. Just as dangerous!

You are doing it in a more stealth manner, by posting more and more links - but nevertheless - you are "pushing doctine" --- No difference - as Paul used "Eve" to warn Timothy of false-doctrines entering the Church - and yes, I agree with that many of those have come from women, Margaret McDonald and Helen G. White, for two -- but we are not in a Church - we are on a forum - where ALL are sharing what is on their heart - so please don't hide behind your multiple links with the pretense that you're not wanting to "teach men"... your multiple posts on this topic - to even starting your own thread contradicts your premise entirely.

You are welcome to believe that Nero was the antiChrist and that there will be no mark-of-the-beast etc. -- but it's become apparent now through the number of posts on other threads and now this one, that your intent if to "Teach".

You finally spoke up - and I and others have asked you questions directly - being female to female, but you wouldn't reply to any of these appeals or replies to your posts but you will to a man?

You are Pushing your Historic View now. Few of us have started threads on "The AntiChrist" but here we are - on Your thread and again - you are a woman and you are now pushing Historicism when you would not answer our posts to you on the other threads regarding this belief.

Yes, concerned is the word here. Concerned in light of what is transpiring in this world. Concerned that those who believe in your belief will be "deceived" when Scripture is fulfilled, in our life-time.

Concerned that you are vigorously trying to 'teach' this belief, that all of the last days events that the majority know will happen, Won't happen and we need not "have understanding" of the times or be watchful for those things that Jesus through His Prophets & Apostles wrote in His Word warned us to watch for. "Let him that hath Understanding compute ..... " etc..

No, Historicism is a dangerous belief that I cannot call a doctrine but a blatant heresy that will cause those who lean on it to come into much confusion, deception and a possiblity of "buying and selling" until the LORD returns.

We're not in a Church and no women here "usurps authority" over men - we share with the brethren on a open forum - but woman to woman - I tell you that you are teaching and yet saying that as a woman - that you are Not. That's double deception, so I pray that you'll re-think not only your beliefs but your M.O..

In His Love.

Well, Brother Savannah - are you saying that a female on a forum cannot disagree with Historicism? - or any other belief that they strongly feel is not Biblical - Nor share the Scriptures that may counter that belief or promote a clearer view of true-Truth?

btw - I am not a Dispensationalist.

Contrary to the "fear" that you've also assumed that we generate - I was "fearful" when I believed pre-trib, in my early years - but The Truth has set me free from all fear - because of John 16:13 & 14 - "...and will show you things to come..." Amen! Great Peace have they that Love His WORD.

Whether someone is pre-mid or post, they all have the basics of what will happen in the last days in common - preterists don't and that's what scares me 'for' them. If we truly Love His Body, we'll care.

Full and Hyper Preterism is what you should define as "Dangerous", I agree as should most people.

Partial Preterism is the belief that there is a future Second Coming, a future Resurrection and a future Judgment.

There is a difference and I wish that when your posting that you put the emphasis on those who believe in the "full" instead of the partial because there is a difference.

I have no qualms with you dear Sister and Saint, I am merely pointing out the difference between the two and there is a HUGE difference.

Hi Dear Brother Approved.
Yes, I do know the difference and years ago was a member on a Preterist's forum.

My contention began with Brother Savannah when he posted on another thread that Nero was the antiChrist. This discussion began there, on that other thread and has been my major concern since.

I have no qualms with the misunderstanding over Savannah's name appearing to some of us as being female neither, it's just what he said about "the Eves" on page 1 that was hurtful. I felt that, dollars for donuts, that had I come on with a big "Amen" and posted some random Scriptures to confirm his belief, that he would not have accused us ladies of "teaching men" and the accusation of evil intentions that he had implied in that previous post.

Shalom!

Miss Corrie Ten Boom was a Dutch survivor of the Nazi Concentration Camps, and a lifelong missionary. Corrie was a believer in facing tribulation. She was one of the many people who were persecuted in concentration camps during the World War II. Her family was murdered before her eyes, but though her life was threatened, God led her through that terrible time. She lived to testify all over the world of how God brought her out of that time of trouble. In the worst days in the concentration camp she and her sister Betsy discovered that "there is no pit so deep that the Presence of God is not there with us". In an interview titled "Prepared for the Coming Tribulation", Miss Corrie Ten Boom held very definite view concerning this. In the following message she shared a plea for the saints to prepare themselves for the possibility that at some point their faith may be tested. It serves today as a timely warning to us in the comfortable and complacent western church as we approach the threshold of the endtime drama.

Here is her exhortation to us from a letter she wrote in 1974................

"The world is deathly ill. It is dying. The Great Physician has already signed the death certificate. Yet there is still a great work for Christians to do. They are to be streams of living water, channels of mercy to those who are still in the world. It is possible for them to do this because they are ‘overcomers.’
Christians are ambassadors for Christ. They are representatives from Heaven to this dying world. And because of our presence here, things can change for others.

My sister, Betsy, and I were in the Nazi concentration camp at Ravensbruck because we committed the crime of loving Jews. Seven hundred of us from Holland, France, Russia, Poland and Belgium were herded into a room built for two hundred. As far as I knew, Betsy and I were the only two representatives of Heaven in that room.
We may have been the Lord's only representatives in that place of hatred, yet because of our presence there, things changed. Jesus said, "In the world you shall have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." We too, are to be overcomers – bringing the light of Jesus into a world filled with darkness and hate.

Sometimes I get frightened as I read the Bible, and as I look in this world and see all of the tribulation and persecution promised by the Bible coming true. Now I can tell you, though, if you too are afraid, that I have just read the last pages. I can now come to shouting "Hallelujah! Hallelujah!" for I have found where it is written that Jesus said, "He that overcometh shall inherit all things: and I will be His God, and he shall be My son." This is the future and hope of this world. Not that the world will survive – but that we shall be overcomers in the midst of a dying world.

Betsy and I, in the concentration camp, prayed that God would heal Betsy who was so weak and sick. "Yes, the Lord will heal me,", Betsy said with confidence. She died the next day and I could not understand it. They laid her thin body on the concrete floor along with all the other corpses of the women who died that day.
It was hard for me to understand, to believe that God had a purpose for all that. Yet because of Betsy's death, today I am traveling all over the world telling people about Jesus.
There are some among us teaching there will be no tribulation, that the Christians will be able to escape all this. These are the false teachers that Jesus was warning us to expect in the latter days. Most of them have little knowledge of what is already going on across the world. I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution.
In China, the Christians were told, "Don't worry, before the tribulation comes you will be translated – raptured." Then came a terrible persecution. Millions of Christians were tortured to death. Later I heard a Bishop from China say, sadly,
"We have failed.
We should have made the people strong for persecution rather than telling them Jesus would come first.
Tell the people how to be strong in times of persecution,
how to stand when the tribulation comes,
– to stand and not faint."
I feel I have a divine mandate to go and tell the people of this world that it is possible to be strong in the Lord Jesus Christ. We are in training for the tribulation, but more than sixty percent of the Body of Christ across the world has already entered into the tribulation. There is no way to escape it.
We are next.
Since I have already gone through prison for Jesus' sake, and since I met the Bishop in China, now every time I read a good Bible text I think, "Hey, I can use that in the time of tribulation." Then I write it down and learn it by heart. (Editor’s note: Wonderful idea.)

When I was in the concentration camp, a camp where only twenty percent of the women came out alive, we tried to cheer each other up by saying, "Nothing could be any worse than today." But we would find the next day was even worse. During this time, a Bible verse that I had committed to memory gave me great hope and joy.

“If you be reproached (suffer) for the name of Christ, happy-blessed are you; for the Spirit of glory and of God (the same Glory and Spirit of God that rested over The Tabernacle in the O.T.) will rest upon you. On their part He is evil spoken of, but on your part He is Glorified.”
1 Peter 4 : 14
I found myself saying, "Hallelujah! - Because I am suffering, Jesus is Glorified!"

In America, the churches sing, "Let the congregation escape tribulation" (I‘ll fly away, etc.), but in China and Africa etc., tribulation has already arrived. This last year alone more than two hundred thousand Christians were martyred in Africa. Now things like that never get into the newspapers because they cause bad political relations. But I know. I have been there. We need to think about that when we sit down in our nice houses with our nice clothes to eat our steak dinners. Many, many members of the Body of Christ are being tortured to death at this very moment, yet we continue right on as though we are all going to escape the tribulation.

Several years ago I was in Africa in a nation where a new government had come into power. The first night I was there some of the Christians were commanded to come to the police station to register. When they arrived they were arrested and that same night they were executed. The next day the same thing happened with other Christians. The third day it was the same. All the Christians in the district were being systematically murdered.
The fourth day I was to speak in a little church. The people came, but they were filled with fear and tension. All during the service they were looking at each other, their eyes asking, "Will this one I am sitting beside be the next one killed? Will I be the next one?"
The room was hot and stuffy with insects that came through the screenless windows and swirled around the naked bulbs over the bare wooden benches. I told them a story out of my childhood.
"When I was a little girl, " I said, "I went to my father and said,
"Daddy, I am afraid that I will never be strong enough to be a marty for Jesus Christ."
"Tell me," said Father,
"When you take a train trip to Amsterdam,
when do I give you the money for the ticket?
Three weeks before?"
"No, Daddy, you give me the money for the ticket just before we get on the train." "That is right," my father said, "and so it is with God's strength.
Our Father in Heaven knows when you will need the strength to be a martyr for Jesus Christ.
He will supply all you need – [u]just in time[/u]…"
My African friends were nodding and smiling. Suddenly a spirit of joy descended upon that church and the people began singing,
“In the sweet, by and by, we shall meet on that beautiful shore.”

Later that week, half the congregation of that church was executed. I heard later that the other half was killed some months ago.
But I must tell you something. I was so happy that the Lord used me to encourage these people, for unlike many of their leaders, I had the word of God. I had been to the Bible and discovered that Jesus said He had not only overcome the world, but to all those who remained faithful to the end, He would give a crown of life. Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which you shall suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that you may be tried; and you shall have tribulation ten days; be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

How can we get ready for the persecution?

~ First we need to feed on the word of God, digest it, make it a part of our being. This will mean disciplined Bible study each day as we not only memorize long passages of scripture, but put the principles to work in our lives.

~ Next we need to develop a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Not just the Jesus of yesterday, the Jesus of History, but the life-changing Jesus of today who is still alive and sitting at the right hand of God.

~ We must be filled with the Holy Spirit. This is no optional command of the Bible, it is absolutely necessary. Those earthly disciples could never have stood up under the persecution of the Jews and Romans had they not waited for Pentecost. Each of us needs our own personal Pentecost, the baptism of the Holy Spirit. We will never be able to stand in the tribulation without it.

~ In the coming persecution we must be ready to help each other and encourage each other. But we must not wait until the tribulation comes before starting. The fruit of the Spirit should be the dominant force of every Christian's life.

Many are fearful of the coming tribulation, they want to run. I, too an a little bit afraid when I think that after all my years, including the horrible nazi concentration camp, that I might have to go through the tribulation also. But then I read the Bible and I am glad.

When I am weak, then I shall be strong, the Bible says. Betsy and I were prisoners for the Lord, we were so weak, but we got power because the Holy Spirit was on us. That mighty inner strengthening of the Holy Spirit helped us through. No, you will not be strong in yourself when the tribulation comes. Rather, you will be strong in the power of Him who will not forsake you. For seventy-six years I have known the Lord Jesus and not once has He ever left me, or let me down.

"Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him", for I know that to all who overcome, He shall give the crown of life.
Hallelujah!”
-Corrie Ten Boom-1974

Why on earth did you use a female nickname

At any rate, I think we should let this thread die and and let it fall asleep amongst the archives, as there is absolutely nothing that is profitable.

There is indeed offences and I think those apologies (if any is willing to humble themselves and admit it) should be done behind closed doors ie; PM's.

Perhaps this discussion on this subject can be had sometime down the road.

Good bye thread, farewell to thee.