This reply is addressed mainly to sidadm.
One of the big problems is the Mosque of Omar. Remove thatand you have 150 million Arabs converging on you.
True Judaism is not even practiced because there is no temple, altar, sacrifice, etc. It is a conglomeration of Kasbbia, Midrash, Talmud, Mishna, Halaha, etc.Oldf Testament Judaism has been so watered down that I don't think there would be any consensus to rebuild the Temple because they would have to agree to jettison all thier extra beliefs and return to the Mosaic law. But, even the Pharisees had their traditions that they added, so who knows.
Me: There would be a lot that would have to happen before a temple could be rebuilt. I acknowledge that. You point out many obstacles and they are there but like you also said, who knows. It was also commonly believed for centuries by church theologians that the Jews would never return to the holy land but against all obstacles and predictions they have. Perhaps the growing international pressure on Israel to conform to the world's wishes regarding the land and growing anti-semitism raising its head again may begin to exert even more pressure on them that will cause a deeper soul searching on their part and may cause them to think again of their old religion. Perhaps another regional war with unacceptable Jewish casaulties would have the same effect. And who is to say that a type of peace won't eventually come into play that will allow both Muslims and Jews to worship on the same vicinity without replacing the Mosque of Omar. I'm speculating but lots of events could bring this about just as unforeseen events brought about the return of the Jews to Palestine.
But these "christians" have already received the spirit of the world.
Me: I've heard those same things and who knows what will come of all that but what concerns me even more is the growing trend of "Zionism bashing" in the evangelical world. That's part of what I see as part of the growing international pressure on Israel that is going to grow. Part of this pressure will come from the Christian world. In my view, it's hard to see why Christians should be given the negative label of "Christian Zionists" just because they believe the Jews would one day return to the holy land. This new wave of Zionist bashers and authors are making sophisticated arguments against the prophetic signifigance of modern Israel (which they deny entirely) but in their efforts to lead people away from error they are leading people into a deepr error which denies any prophetic significance whatsoever to modern Israel. And it seems if one has any beliefs reagarding modern Israel that one is automatically labelled a dispensationalist and that is not true either. Far from it.
Me: The verses in Rev 11:1-2 use the same Greek word ("naos") for temple that is used elsewhere to describe the church as the temple or dwelling place of God. But the scene here in Rev 11 is in my opinion not designating the church as the dwelling place but the Jewish temple in Jerusalem. We know that because of the command to not measure the court outside the temple and this lets us know it is the Jewish temple in Jerusalem being referred to.
Today, I would say that the sanctuary of strength is our heart and the daily sacrifice is our life lived unto Jesus, each day. The abomination that maketh desolate is that which replaces the Lord in our hearts.
Me: The verse right before, Daniel 11:30, says,
"For ships of Kittim will come against him; therefore he will be disheartened, and will return and become enraged at the holy covenant and take action; so he will come back and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant."
What happens in verse 30 is what causes the events in verse 31. So how does the ships of Kittim coming aganst him etc. figure into things replacing the Lord in our hearts? What are the ships of Kittim and the rest of verse 30 represenative of? I only mention this because I believe allegorization of biblical prophecy has been taken too far. I believe this hermeneutic method many times destroys any literal intent and meaning that the original inspired writer intended.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. The Lord is speaking of a very great deception, here.
Me: Yes he is speaking of great deception here. Thankfully concerning these things he said, "Behold, I have told you in advance." Practiced and clear discernment will be needed in those days.
Me: If I've acted like a know it all I realy didn't mean it that way. I've looked into eschatology in recent years and found it sobering with a capital S but it can be encouraging also. God is going to correct if needed and guide His church through the times of the end and there's much to unify everyone still in spite of the differences. I just have come down on a more literal side regarding unfulfilled prophecy because I think history bears out literal fulfillment of prophecy until now.
John Calvin commenting on Hosea 1:10-11
The Book of the Prophet Hosea
10 – Yet the number of the sons of Israel will be like the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered; and it will come about that where it was said to them, “You are not My people,” it will be said to them, “You are the sons of the living God.”
11 – And the sons of Judah and the sons of Israel will be gathered together, and they will appoint for themselves one leader, and they will go up from the land, for great will be the day of Jezreel.
"For so long a time has passed away since their [the sons of Israel’s] exile, and…since there has been no restoration of this people, it is certain that this prophecy ought not to be restricted to seed according to the flesh. For there was a prescribed time for the Jews, when the Lord purposed to restore them to their country; and, at the end of seventy years, a free return was granted them by Cyrus. Then Hosea spoke not here of the kingdom of Israel, but of the Church, which was to be restored by a return, composed of both Jews and of Gentiles." (John Calvin)
Me: "since there has been no restoration of this people" is what catches my attention in this commentary. There may not have been a restoration of the Jewish people to the land in the days of Calvin but here has been during these times. Against all predictions and obstacles and "Israel has been forever replaced" theology. A literal Israel doesn't seem to be as far out of the picture as many have advocated over the centuries. Nothing is impossible for God and the unfolding of prophecy. Like one noted theologian said, "Why can't a literal fulfillment of prophecy be the most spiritual fulfillment of all?"
Thank you and blessings to you.
