Does anyone really know God for themselves

D

DEADn Feb 18, 2011

I have been troubled ALOT lately by the notion of knowing GOd and others knowing God. I surf the web and among the few christian sites I go to I see alot of talk about GOd and godliness but I also see so much conspiracy theory in postings. I see radical separation in some people to the point of it seemingly ridiculous to the christian faith.

When I read of people hearing from God I seem to always read things such as 'I thought I heard God say to me...' type of stuff. Through it all I ask myself, is anyone really hearing from God or just putting their own spin on a thought that came to them that they are saying is God talking to them? Can you hear what I am saying?

I have a struggle within myself in this.

Also, let me give another example of something that happened to me that makes me wonder, was it God or just circumstance.
On another forum dealing with weightlifting there is a forum about religion and politics. A person on there threw out some ideas and asked questions and said he was searching. I went to private message with him and somehow he went ballastic and started tell me God was dead, the bible is a lie etc. I told him I wasn't answering 1000 of his questions. Only that which was important. He sought to accuse me as the adversary does.

I prayed for this person in my thoughts. At the end of the week he sent me a PM apologizing for his actions and didn't mean to say the things he did and he couldn't believe what was coming out of his mouth. He still might be searching himself but he seems to be an agnostic.

Given this scenerio, is this conviction of his heart a prompting of God or just his conscience really grabbing him?

M

mattandliz Feb 18, 2011

Dear DEADn,
This has been a consuming passion of mine for the last couple of years. Ten years ago I had a radical encounter with God that was more real than anything I have ever expeirenced. It wasnt long after this that I began to "learn" about God from many sources, pastors, commentaries, bible colleges etc. but I neglected to seek the face of Jesus and His presence. Since then the Lord has called me away from my learning of Him and given me one message, "seek My face". Since then His presence hasnt been as real as it was ten years ago, but I believe I am on the right track.
When God called the children of Israel out of Egypt, He told them to go and worship Him in the desert. The first destination was Mt. Sanai, in which God called Moses and Aaron to meet with Him on the Mountain. Moses went alone to meet with the living God, and Aaron stayed back to look after the people. We all know the story, the people wanted to worship something, so Aaron asked that everyones gold would be brought to him, he then threw it into the fire and molded a golden calf. Aaron proclaimed that the image of the calf was Yahweh Himself.
There are two types of ministers in the world, those who climb the mountain to meet with the living God, and those who know nothing of His presence and seek to replicate the image of God into something made by man.
I believe that many do not know God and are creating false fire. There are many that are believing that they hear from God but it is nothing more than their own desires. I believe that we are living laodecia. See Revelation 3:20. A chruch in which God is on the outside looking in. My wife has said accurately that today's christianity can be compared to a birthday party celebration where the guest of honor was neglected to be invited.

A couple sermon recommendations;
the real or the plastic by Art Katz
the glory of God in moral purity by Paul Washer

God bless you brother.

sermonindex Feb 18, 2011

Brother, I love fellowship but I've found that we must be very careful in what forums we join onto.

If there's a lot of that "GOD told me" stuff - guarenteed, you're in a mess right there - I think I know what you mean. The false prophetic is pandemic in these days and not a few forums allow for such things. I believe that He speaks to our hearts just as He said He would in John 10 about His Sheep knowing His Voice and not following another and John 16:13,14, that He'll also lead us into truth by that same Voice - but what we see today is "voices without His Word as central". In fact, in most of these type messages there's almost no Scripture given.

Then there's the political forums - I know of those as well. I don't expect to get Scriptural purity on those and as far a weight-lifting sites - well, bodily excercies propits little, but godliness is profitable unto all things.

I suppose we need to be as discerning where we fellowship online as we are about what local fellowship we attend to on a regular basis.
These others can stir your mind up and actually cause confusion or despair.

About the last fellow - out of the abundance of a heart, the mouth speaks. Just gird up your heart because you never truly know who you're talking to online.

Yes, there are people who know GOD for themselves.
When I feel discouraged - I go to the "Devotional Thoughts" section of this forum and just read or pull up some text sermons by some of my favorite dead saints or call a friend or two that know Him in sincerity & truth and of the deep things of GOD and not the wacky stuff I believe you've encountered online, as most of us have and backed away from.

Bless you and just from my own experience - just think twice about where else you fellowship online, for your mind's sake.

Here, I believe, we pray one for another and for protection for each other, spiritual protection of our minds and otherwise. We may not agree on every topic, but there's not that Extreme of all sorts of things here that I've seen while orbiting cyberspace.

The LORD Bless you and give you peace in your knowledge of Him.

sermonindex Feb 19, 2011

prayer is potent, and the Holy Spirit DID prick his heart, i believe that with all my soul.

and you asked

Through it all I ask myself, is anyone really hearing from God or just putting their own spin on a thought that came to them that they are saying is God talking to them? Can you hear what I am saying?

yes i can...indeed, and all i know is how the Sound of that Small Still Voice sounds in my heart, but it's usually a private thing between Jesus and me.

Thank God.

neil

D

DEADn Feb 19, 2011

Mattandliz

Your post has something that happens ALOT. You had a radical encounter with God and then you started learning of God through other sources. IMO it is the soul that causes such things to happen. Looking for the authentic in that which is really counterfeit. It always amazes me how this comes about.

How did you determine that what happened to you was a radical encounter with God? I can lay out what I think the answer could be or probably is but I want to hear it from the mouth of someone else.

D

DEADn Feb 19, 2011

mattandliz

one other thing
I will check out the Art Katz sermond you mentioned.
Paul washer? I like the guy to a point. His messages are strong but he just comes across to me as someone whose masculinity is soft, if that makes sense?

In some of his messages I have a hard time finding the balance of when a christian should defend himself because it seems to me, according to some of his words, that the moment he were to lash out at someone then he apologizes because that is not christian nature. It leaves the door open for the 'rug mat syndrome'. an example of what I mean by masculinity is soft.

J

jimp Feb 19, 2011

hi,if you do not know God and are not known by God you are not His sheep."Inever Knew you".abraham heard a voice,noah heard a voice...all those in hebrews 11 heard the same voice...abraham heard the same voice My sheep know My voice and follow Me.jimp faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the same voice,the word of Godto you pesonnally.

D

DEADn Feb 19, 2011

jimp

I understand what you are saying but that really isn't answering the question. It is more side stepping it.

How many christians are really hearing the Voice of God vs thinking they are becomes emotions become a big player in this. I am troubled in my own soul with this and knowing when it is God still small voice vs my own still small voice.

J

jimp Feb 19, 2011

hi, if what you hear has your benifit at its center it is your voice . if God and His people benefit it is most likely the voice of God...remember, God is not interested in your happiness as much as your holiness.faith is hearing this voice of direction and then obeying.jimp

sermonindex Feb 20, 2011

"How many christians are really hearing the Voice of God vs thinking they are becomes emotions become a big player in this. I am troubled in my own soul with this and knowing when it is God still small voice vs my own still small voice."

Hey man it is great to see you on this site seeking for this answer. The logical answer is that only the one who is a real Christian is hearing his voice, that person knows that it is the Lord because God by his Spirit confirms this to them. I do think also that someone can be drawn by the voice of God to before salvation. If the voice someone hears confirms to his word you can be pretty sure that it is the voice of God, Satan would not want us to believe God's word or obeying it so I would tell you that the question comes "Does this confirm to God's word which is really his word, if it doesn't you can't have assurance that it is God's voice. The Jim Jones and Benny Hinns probably think they are hearing God's voice, but when you go to scripture much of what they said contradicts what God's word says. I will give you an example to help you out. I was watching a sports game and I felt a small desire to read God's word almost as if a small voice saying get in my word, the other stronger voice was saying this sports game is more interesting and my flesh desired it more than wanting to read the word. Though my desire was to watch the game more I turned it off knowing the scripture says "Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever." (1 John 2:15-17) I also knew scriptures that said
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment."Mark 12:30
I knew that i was loving this game more than God and that it was becoming my god and an idol, I was breaking the greatest commandment. But, after making that decision the word of God opened up to me and his word began to speak to me and I was desiring to obey it and was hearing his voice while I was walking around to love, care, walking in mercy and meekness, etc. You just know, but it is only something that God can reveal to you, but I will encourage when you our really seriously hearing God's voice you know without a doubt it is God and their is no doubt. Brother, "But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find [him], if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul." Deuteronomy 4:29 Do this and he will reveal his voice to you, his voice calls us all to
Repentance: 1Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:

2But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

3For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.

4None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity. Isaiah 59 :1-4
If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26
1Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

2Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.

3Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

4Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.

5Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.

6Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

7Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55
"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live": John 11:25
God bless you John

sermonindex Feb 20, 2011

Hi DEADn,

I just want to put in a word for Paul Washer - and for his God - because you said:

Paul washer? I like the guy to a point. His messages are strong but he just comes across to me as someone whose masculinity is soft, if that makes sense?

If you listen to enough of his Q & A sessions (sermonaudio.com), you can learn that during his ten years in Peru, when a civil war was raging, he saw a lot of bad things which changed his life. It was during this time, from soon after arriving there, he began to read the Bible so as to teach it (rather than as a devotional, or to prepare a message), and that amount of Bible study (8 - 10 hours a day) also changed his perspective on God and Christ. In Peru, he was dragged out of his transport to be beaten up by the local militia. He doesn't make much of this, but I'm sure it contributed to his need for hips and a knee to be replaced while still a young man. You can also judge the severity of these trials when he speaks of his wife, who worked with him on the field before they were (even) courting, preventing her from joining certain trips would have put her in danger of the same kind of treatment and more, from the soldiers.

He went alone (or with brethren) knowing he was putting his life on the line IN FACT. The woman he married also put her life on the line, joining him on other trips which some brethren deemed too dangerous at the time, and God was with them.

I grew up on a mission field, which later became a battleground, so perhaps it is easier for me to tune into the pressures of living primitively in a different culture and language, where not everyone is trustworthy.

So, I would say, it takes a certain kind of strength to bear that kind of situation - albeit the kind that is made perfect in weakness - and any missionary needs a softness, or they are no use to God in conveying His love, and tenderness for the souls of men. God has made Paul Washer a little bit like Jesus in His sufferings, and (therefore), there is nothing wrong with his masculinity.

D

DEADn Feb 20, 2011

I hear what you are saying about listening to that still small voice.
I am constantly meditiation in mind and soul on the princiiples of God and how they relate to society. I strive to be balanced in my life. It could be that I , personally, haven't focused enough testing to know whether it is God speaking to me? I think and know that is possible. In that regard I am in pursuit and do more meditating then praying unless meditation can be considered a form of prayer.

I notice a great many people (online) in various "christian" forums who seem to be worse than the world and in many cases the National Enquirer when it comes to anything about God. Some even get into the conspiracy theory stuff as well. I always ask myself when I see these postings - Is this what Jesus has done in the Body? Are you people this shallow in heart? It really makes me cry inside because what is the end result in it? 1)mockery from society 2) possible growth of atheists and agnostics 3) people just playing the game (while going to church) 4) Spiritual aneorexia in christians and they don't even know it.

I have seen so much of it that it has caused me to question my own self and ask, maybe I am being disillusional in my faith? Thinking it is real and maybe it isn't solely because of what I see from other 'christians'. I always remind myself that the adversary roars and unless I know and understand who is greater in this world then I fall.

Does this make sense? I am still sorting it all out. Many times I feel like David WIlkerson inside when I have heard him cry out.

P.S. I don't know anything about Paul Washer and his background. Only what I have heard in some messages and I constantly process what I hear. Maybe I need to hear more about his background in order to have my questions about him answered? Does he have a message where he speaks about his past?

sermonindex Feb 20, 2011

P.S. I don't know anything about Paul Washer and his background. Only what I have heard in some messages and I constantly process what I hear. Maybe I need to hear more about his background in order to have my questions about him answered? Does he have a message where he speaks about his past?

Hi DEADn,

I may not be the person to answer this question as I have by no means listened to all his messages, many of which are posted with translation into another language. What I mentioned were gleaned mainly from passing comments. He does frequently mention 'a man wracked with pain', whom I take to mean himself, when he was in great distress.

I could say more about his background from my listening, but I replied because the impression you have is correct, but I would call it a cause for celebration, rather than criticism of his testimony.

sermonindex Feb 20, 2011

EXCELLANT question, Deadn.

Some of the answer lies in what God tells us about His Holy Spirit in His Word, particularly John 16. If God ever speaks to us it is through His Holy Spirit. The Word tells us that the Holy Spirit does the following:

1. He glorifies Christ
2. He convicts of sin
3. He brings to rememberance the Word(s) or commandments of Jesus; the scriptures
4. He is the Spirit of Truth, revealing the Truth (found in the Word of God)

Thus, if anything comes into your mind that reflects any of these things and lines up accurately with the Word of God (not twisted or heretical) then you can trust it is the voice of God leading you. For example, the thought that says Christ is Holy God in the flesh is glorifying Christ. But if the voice or thought only says that he was a great prophet and wonderful teacher then that is NOT from God for that voice is a contrary to scripture and a lie.

I was brought to Christ by hearing a voice calling me to repent. In other words, convicting me of sin. This lines up with the scriptures on what the role of the Holy Ghost is. I repented but I never again heard God speak to me in that way, nor had i ever before that. God speaks in different ways though. God has communicated a warning at least once or twice to me by giving me a "sudden, loud check" in my spirit. This is not something i can describe with words.

Sometimes God speaks to a person through another, or through circumstances (called Providence). Some examples of this would be in the Book of Esther. Not once in that entire book does it say that "God said...", but God was leading behind the scenes and used both Mordecai and Esther mightily.

D

DEADn Feb 21, 2011

"I was brought to Christ by hearing a voice calling me to repent. In other words, convicting me of sin. This lines up with the scriptures on what the role of the Holy Ghost is. I repented but I never again heard God speak to me in that way, nor had i ever before that. God speaks in different ways though. God has communicated a warning at least once or twice to me by giving me a "sudden, loud check" in my spirit. This is not something i can describe with words.

Sometimes God speaks to a person through another, or through circumstances (called Providence). Some examples of this would be in the Book of Esther. Not once in that entire book does it say that "God said...", but God was leading behind the scenes and used both Mordecai and Esther mightily."

This paragraph tells me that when listening to the voice of God He doesn't always speak in the same way so a person really has to 'pay attention'. I think this could be a bullseye as to what could be wrong in the church and the travail I am going through inside.

I am really at a point in my life where I only want to hear from christian who are hungry inside and not out to just do a slot machine Jesus type of thing. This is why I am asking this question. I have a deep stirring in my soul and while this is going on I find skeptics on one side of me and some who are christians but not very deep in soul. More religious in works then seeking the deep waters of the Spirit. It really is like a painful waning for me inside but I keep my peace and keep my heart going forward.

I also think that a person has to becareful about Divine Providence as well. A person can give you advice and it all line up with scripture but God may have a different road for you to go on. Yet to know that a person has to know it inside.
You know, this post is causing me to have to stop for a while and just get alone inside. Ever feel like you are on an island?

sermonindex Feb 21, 2011

Here is a great sermon by Washer brother reading his letters while in Peru it is very powerful.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=13734&commentView=itemComments

I would say brother that their are many professing brethren in America because we are in a Christian culture, you can see the millions of churches in America it is amazing, but the problem the true gospel and true Biblical character of God is not preached so that we have many unconverted church goers and professors who live godless lives, they live like the world and it is because they hear an easy believism soft Bible preaching teacher all the time. This is a true reality and this is why Christ and the apostles warned of this MATTHEW CH. 7 READ THAT. Read first John in which a true Christian is to live like and how you can know God has truly encountered a person. Brother the Lord very well might be calling you. If you can pick up the book Ashamed of the gospel by John Macarthur it is very powerful. God bless you brother.

J

johncy Feb 23, 2011

You cannot be a follower or someone if you do not recognize and have faith in them. That is why you cannot be Christian by action if you do not know God for yourself because we follow Him because we respect and love Him. We can choose not to believe in Him but still, we do because we know that He is there and He loves us.

R

RobertW Feb 23, 2011

It would hardly seem possible that a good place to look is the life of Job. Here was a man that was very religious, we might say. He responded rightly to everything he knew about God. Yet, there was something missing:

Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.

Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.

I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes. (Job 42:3-6)

God had not yet really introduced himself to Job, in all of his religious exercise. He is never satisfied to see us moving in other people's experiences. Very sobering. He was moving in the revelation of the, 'hearing of the ear', but his testimony was not yet first-hand account. This had changed by Job 42.

The way to the knowledge of God if often a very rough one. This is a hard saying. John the Revelator had enjoyed all of the revelation of God one might imagine; but it was on Patmos that he had the ultimate revelation of Christ. One might ask, 'what could be greater than hearing the heartbeat of God'? (as some affirm John did) After seeing all of the reference points gone (Christ, the Apostles, the Temple, etc.) surely he was in deep despair. John's Job 42 came with the words, 'I was in the Spirit in the Lord's day...' If tradition is to be believed he had been boiled in oil and left for dead among a host of lunatics. When God lifted the hedge, as it were, He also lifted the veil of Heaven.

G

ginnyrose Feb 23, 2011

DEADn,

May I suggest that you ask God these questions. No one can assure you you belong to God. Only God can.

I keep praying that the LORD would teach me to recognize his voice when he speaks. And He does. But you have to be totally earnest in your quest. Too many folks want to keep God at a distance and not allow Him into the deepest recesses of their soul. This should give you a clue about where you are.

Another thing: how many times do you argue with conviction? How many times do you work to justify your actions? Do you accept the WORD as His word?

Yes, this effects us all...or am I being to inclusive? Let's say it affects me and perhaps there are others that will find themselves in a similar situation.

BTW, I agree with Linn's advice to limit your fellowship on the web. And I will add to this, your reading of secular news items. They are a faith killer. My opinion.

God bless.

ginnyrose