The Apostles Creed?

I was fishing for some thoughts and information on the Apostles Creed.

1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
5. The third day he rose again from the dead:
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:
8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:
9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:
10. The forgiveness of sins:
1l. The resurrection of the body:
12. And the life everlasting. Amen.

The reason I am curious is because I read a book that talked briefly about the Apostles Creed and the author stated that the Roman Catholic Church is not the samething as the Holy Catholic Church mentioned in the creed but that the word Catholic essentially means universal, so when the Creed says I believe in the Holy Catholic church its saying I believe in the Holy Universal Church. I was wondering if anyone had anything thoughts on this. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

God Bless,
Matthew

Correct. Catholic did not take on the meaning Roman Catholic for several more centuries. Rome always preferred to read things into the text instead of out of one. It's done it with the Scriptures and creeds.

So is there any problem with the Creed? I found I agree with everything on the list for the most part, I was a little iffy on the catholic thing but now that's cleared up.

I fully agree with the creed and find no problem in it. So much so I even wrote a brief essay on the very line you bring into question, although I talk about it from the Nicene creed instead (which has a slightly modified line). This is not a scholarly reflection so much as a devotional, but I actually rather enjoy the Apostles Creed, and find it a perfect reflection of what Christians everywhere should believe. I think you will find the following short essay profitable.

Read: An Apostolic Church - http://iamadisciple.com/articles/an_apostolic_church.php

It should be noted that some versions of the Apostles Creed read "We believe," instead of "I believe." Which the original is, nobody knows for sure (that I'm aware of). I prefer the "We believe" nature of it instead of "I believe." But, either way... it'll preach.

:-)

You make an interesting point Brian and I have heard it before, my only response would simply be I don't know :) That isn't something that I have deeply studied and so my knowledge of it is limited.

I guess the idea of Christ going into hell is, He defeated Satan who many assume reside in hell not to mention there are like 3 to 4 different places that people commonly think is hell.

4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:

I would agree that Christ descended into hell, but I would do so with an astrick mark (*) beside it. "Hell" is a theologically loaded term sometimes, meaning different things to different people in different generations. Since we don't actually know who wrote the "Apostles Creed," we don't have the ability to do a full blown word study and ask what they meant by this. To some it may mean the lake of fire at the end of the age, or to others a general word for the place of the dead. To some this includes paradise for the righteous, and a general place of suffering for the unrighteous.

I think if one understands "hell" in the general sense of "the place of the dead," then I have no problem with this. Acts 2:31 and 1 Peter 3:19-20 are enough to validate this idea of Christ ascending into "hell."

However where I would strongly part with some is the idea that Christ went to hell and suffered in hell to atone for our sins. Romans 5 makes it clear, Christ death on the cross is what atoned for our sins, not any supposed suffering he experienced in hell. So far as I can see it, if Christ went to hell, it was for the purpose of preaching the victory of the cross over death. I do not believe whatsoever that He would have suffered there.

@KingJimmy, On this occasion YOU are reading into the text: "The Catholic [=Universal] Church" always meant just that, as distinct from any local sects that may arise.

Hence Cyril of Jerusalem (c. 315-386): "If ever thou art sojourning in cities, inquire not simply where the Lord's House is (for the other sects of the profane also attempt to call their own dens "houses of the Lord"), nor merely where the Church is, but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the peculiar name of this holy Church, the mother of us all, which is the spouse of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Only-begotten Son of God" (Catechetical Lectures, XVIII, 26, from Wikipedia).

From the church of Rome's point of view - whether I happen to agree with it or not - all the protestant sects, which disagree with them on a number of doctrines, are not part of the Universal Church as the term was originally meant.

This is not to say that protestants can't have a different understanding of the term. Even a better understanding, closer to Paul's formula: "One church, one faith, one baptism."

For instance, in a strange town I might ask "What's a GOOD church to go to in [insert name here]" the meaning is the same as St. Cyril's: "where is the Catholic Church?"

Guttridge,

What specifically did I say that you are saying that I read something into the text? All I said is that Rome has read herself into the text.

Thanks,

Jimmy

Universal may be explained this way. There exists in this earth a body of people who have all been born again by the atonement of blood Jesus Christ and have become part of the church. These people are of all nations, but are born again by the same atonement. These people speak all languages, but are born again by the same atonement. There is one universal sacrifice, one universal atonement that had opened the way to all men of all nations throughout the whole earth to become sons of God, to belong the the church, the body of Christ. I do not know you Matthew, but if you are born again then we belong to the same body and the same church.

In the Roman Catholic church the Apostles creed is read in every mass. This is correct doctrine, yet the Roman Catholic church believes that their church is the true church, and that if you are outside of the Roman Catholic church then you are not in the true church. The Roman Catholic church teaches salvation by keeping the sacrements. (salvation by works).

Mike

hi, the creed is a great tool in witnessing to the romans.jimp

I don't really like creeds either this one just struck my attention because an author quoted it in the book I was reading. I guess man always tries to find the more efficient route and things creeds are just faster and easier to use. Unfortunately if one isn't careful as you stated they may very well water down the Word of God, not only that but in generational changes at times what the creed says doesn't translate well to the next generation and just becomes a ritual or tradition.