Hi Guys, not sure if this has been posted before, forgive me if it has. Listen to this "preacher," talk about a message that will undoubtedly become part of the great harlot church message in the end times. Its pretty sad when the secular interviewer knows more than the " man of God." ...... brother Frank
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg-qgmJ7nzA
It amazes me how many words were used to answer Martin's questions, and yet never was an answer made...
The joy of life is not coming to conclusions about the most important truths that have ever been given to men? And the great journey is pushing against those cemented facts?
I don't understand something. If guys like this are coming out and saying everyone will be saved then the purpopse of his church is? Cheerleading?
My family and I use to watch some of Rob's earlier videos. I had heard that he was wondering off the page and frankly this is off the page.
We realize just how horrific the hell is we read of and were taught about when we begin to understand just how Holy and Righteous God is. As we grow in our understanding of Him, hell grows in like measure becoming even more frightful and damnable.
I once took a world religion course in college and the Prof who was a rural Southern Baptist preacher told me he had traveled to many countries around the world and he couldn't see how men could only come by way of Christ when so many across the globe have not even heard His name.
Man will always be left to dispair in his own rational if he tries to confine God to his value system.
This was a very confused man. It made and makes no sense whatso-ever. It was good to see this kind of nonsense being challenged, but believe me, this is what is coming down the tracks, an all embracing religion where God is Santa Claus and everyone and all roads eventually lead to heaven............brother Frank
When asked why he would agree with Origen over Arius...his answer?
Because I'm a Pastor, and so I deal with real people in a real world asking and wrestling with these issues of faith! And what I have discovered, over and over again, is there are people who have questions and hunches and are sort of really struggling with this, and when you can simply give them the gift of...'by the way, within the Christian tradition, there are scholars and theologians, and are other people who have had the same questions.'
"These are spots in your love feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots." -Jude 12
Many cloud shaped words...and yet none of them are like water to my thirsty soul.
Secondly the dominant story of the scriptures is about restoration, it's about renewal, it's about rebirth, it's about a God who insists, in the midst of this chaos...the last word has NOT been spoken.
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in the time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds." -Hebrews 1:1-2
It appears to me as if God has spoken to us through Jesus, as well as the Prophets and Apostles. (Ephesians 2:19-22)
Its amazingly easy to develop any sort of view of eschatology when you do not think that God has spoken the "last" word. The last few thousand times I have read my bible, I have not been aware of this "dominant" theme cropping up all over scripture that in the midst of chaos God has not given us the "last" word. As a matter of fact, I am not sure the word "Chaos" or its equal is ever even found in scripture. (It shows up in the NLT, but I am not sure it is an appropriate word to translate tohu, which is the Hebrew word for confusion, emptiness, without form, void, waste or wilderness. This is the word by the way that is used in Genesis 1:2. I am no Hebrew scholar, and if there is one who could show me if I am wrong, but I doubt anyone would translate Genesis 1:2 as the earth was "Chaos". I know this is a rabbit trail, sorry.) If I am not able to trust that God has indeed spoken "the last word," at least as last as is sufficient for understanding our eternal destinies, then I might as well give up my faith. (1 Peter 1:3)
Jesus IS the last word (Revelation 1:11).
He is right however to say that dominant themes are renewal, rebirth, and restoration, so we obviously agree and congratulate him for such a declaration. But, as engineers say, "Four-fifths of a mouse trap, is not a mouse trap."
***Edited my last paragraph after I discovered a bit more information.***
Interesting. He doesn't seem to like answering straight up questions. He is the founder of the church? In today's Christianity, that means you are the boss and when push comes to shove, others have to leave, not you. Wonder how many have left his church over his beliefs.
Yes, Apollus, what is coming down the tracks is horrendous. What is already here is bad. We have a Christless Christianity, today.
Frank: I am afraid you might not be far off the mark brother. I did some research last night and heard something very different from the gospel of Christ.
Hey brother Travis,
If you were to go to Britain, a country that has thrown off Christianity, you will find a race of people who mostly believe in an afterlife, but one in which everyone goes to heaven apart from " bad people." Of course they believe that most people are " good people." There is no correlation in their minds between the truth of the Gospel and ones eternal destiny. Hell is all but rejected as nonsense, although many would consider it for people like Hitler and so on. Bottom line, its a completely humanistic view of eternity. If there is a heaven, then its a place wher you have a re-union with your grandma and other loved ones. Having said all that, I would have to say that I have found that attitude very much here in the States and in the " church,' as well. This lack of " knowledge,' will cause the people to persish...........brother Frank
PS Dare to stand up in the public arena and suggest that the recent earthquake was a judgement from God and see what happens, it wont be pretty!Another sign of the times I believe where judgements cause the people's heart to grow even harder rather than to humble themselves before the Living God.
Frank: You are so right brother. Mr. Bell is under a very strong deception for sure. It grieves my heart to see people being led astray. A message I heard lately came to mind as I read this thread. It is by a man named John Mulinde. He speaks of an encounter with God in which God showed him the real condition of his heart and brought great repentance to him over his ways. You can find it in the blog section on IHOP's website.
"you will find a race of people who mostly believe in an afterlife, but one in which everyone goes to heaven apart from " bad people." Of course they believe that most people are " good people."
Dead on brother, what I find interesting is if you really study the Word (most Christians don't have a deep understanding of their faith or even what the believe) Good and Bad has nothing to do with Salvation. As you know its all Grace however many people don't understand that our righteousness isn't the factor, its that WE are all depraved and deserving of death and hell, its not an issue of who you want as your defense in the End. Is your trust in Christ and His Work on the Cross or is it on your morality. Something many people are ignorant to.
Dare to stand up in the public arena and suggest that the recent earthquake was a judgement from God and see what happens, it wont be pretty!
Right on! You will be shouted down for sure!
May I suggest God is sending these calamities to destroy people's security to make them think of their eternal destiny and look to God, to get them to repent. This is the purpose of all the judgments described in Revelation (9:20-21; 16:9-10) and the prophets. There is nothing to prevent God from afflicting anything similar to our beloved country, either.
An aside: did you see those videos of the waters rushing in, picking up cars and pitching them around like toys in a bathtub? I got the sense that this is what God thinks of these status symbols - just gather them all up and throw them into the trash heap! Ouch!
Brothers, here's a link to the Paul Edwards program in which he interviews Martin Bashir, and we get to know more about this journalist who interviewed Rob Bell. It's a really good listen.
http://www.godandculture.com/blog/msnbcs-martin-bashir-on-the-paul-edwards-program
Thank you for posting that Elowel. Excellent interview.
I was amazed by this interview. I highly encourage taking the time to listen; especially to the end.
http://www.godandculture.com/blog/msnbcs-martin-bashir-on-the-paul-edwards-program
I could say much but the interview speaks for itself.
Wayne
May I suggest God is sending these calamities to destroy people's security to make them think of their eternal destiny and look to God, to get them to repent. This is the purpose of all the judgments described in Revelation (9:20-21; 16:9-10) and the prophets.
Now, to my point, I am thinking that if God wanted to destroy someone’s security blanket, having them think of their eternal destiny, look to God to repent, then surely He would send calamities to America. I support my statement with the argument that over half of us on SI do not go to church because we tend to think of them as Babylon!! To me, the logic of destroying someone’s security in order to get them to repent would be to the Christian church in America.
I'm just thinking out loud. God bless,
Lisa
I say this in all kindness but I’d like to see some of you under the gun of a 5 minute interview on CNN or FOX defending what you believe with simple yes or no answers.
What if someone asked you if you believed in healing; would your answer REALLY be a single word ‘yes’ or ‘no’? No one hardly ever types a simple yes or no on here(SI)!!! No, we’ve all got to explain where we are coming from; why is he so different, my brothers and sisters?
Let's not wait on Christ; why don’t we all just take the judge’s robe off of Jesus Christ right now, tar and feather the man for not admitting to being what you all seem to know that he is: a universalist?!
Has anyone actually prayed for Rob Bell? Devoted actual time to pray for him instead of criticizing him? And asked God what God thinks of him?
God bless and submitted in love,
Lisa
I do not mean to appear dumb but it seems backwards to me for God to wipeout everyone without giving them any instruction hoping they will repent, even Ray Comfort says that.
For one: Japan has had both ample time and opportunity to repent. We've been pouring missionaries into this county for a few hundred years. They just DETEST anything that is not Japanese, especially a God who wasn't invented by a Japanese person. They'll even run around after a man and call him god (my friend's dad is a member of such a group), on the condition that he's Japanese. They suffer from a nationalistic pride like you could never imagine existed. Their true god IS Japan itself. God will knock that god off of the filthy pedestal they've put it on by whatever means He chooses. They know about Christianity. A few hundred years back they spent plenty of effort killing Christians here. It's also not uncommon for people in this country to consider themselves Buddhist, Shinto, and a little bit Christian, for no other reason than that they like Christmas. Many people here are well aware of Christ.
Making a Jewish man Lord of their life though? Forget it. How could a God from Israel possibly comprehend their unique "Japaneseness"?
Believe me Lysa, there's a reason that they've been considered one the most impenetrable countries to the Gospel in the world. It's not that they haven't been presented with it. Not at all.
I actually have family member in Sendai (the city that was devastated) who do ACTIVE outreach ministry constantly. Street ministry. Right in peoples paths. I think possibly one of the largest outreach groups in the country, which is why it's no surprise that's where the earthquake caused the most destruction.
Two: Even though not all of Japan has had a chance to repent, God destroyed the whole world once for it's wickedness, and I don't remember anywhere in particular where Sodom was given ample time to amend it's ways. God will only tolerate sin for so long. Just like if I live in Japan, and I go around breaking laws that I don't know exist, it still makes me a trespasser against the law, and I'm susceptible to punishment. I could go driving around on the wrong side of the road, because in America we drive on the other side, and then say, "Well in my country we drive on this side of the road, I didn't know, even though the cars were going the other way. I don't deserve to pay for a ticket." You think that's going to change the fact that I broke the law and am still responsible for my violation whether I knew it or not? I'm still a lawbreaker, and apart from the mercy of the judge, have no right to say I'm anything but that. Apart from said mercy, I'm under full subjection to whatever the punishment is.
The fact that He hasn't devastated Japan to a larger extent is proof of His mercy and long suffering. Seeing the moral and spiritual depravity of this country first hand, I can only thank God that He didn't hit us here with what we deserve.
Amos 3:6
If a trumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble? If a calamity occurs in a city has not the LORD done it?
Unfortunately there's no "nice, make everyone happy" way around this verse.
That being said though, I believe America is going to get it worse. Like Israel they've had the truth there for a long time, and they've become mockers of it.
Gentlemen, this is solid discussion over what's happened in Japan, but is it appropriate for us to focus directly on it here (even if it does tie in somewhat to the claims of Rob Bell's universal reconcilist)?
I hope this isn't against the forum rules, but you may be interested in these links (maybe I should use less links in my posts):
http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/japan-after-empathy-and-aid-people-want-answers
http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/taste-see-articles/tsunami-sovereignty-and-mercy
http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/sermons/where-is-god
Everestosama, thank you for that post, I had no idea it was like that in Japan.
Lisa,
I see where you're coming from, and you are certainly right that first of all we do need to pray for Rob Bell and ask the Lord what he thinks of him. In this case Rob Bell has set himself up as a Bible teacher to the body of Christ and to the world about subjects of infinite importance, and whether he is listened to or not will influence the salvation of multitudes. The book is itself called "Love Wins: Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived." When any man writes on these issues, knowing he'll reach even one person, let alone millions, as Bell will, he MUST be utterly sound in his understanding and be ready to answer anything that might be asked of him. If he's not, then what business does he have publishing writing about such things and going on international television to speak of them? The Lord will certainly hold public teachers to a greater standard of accountablility and we need to examine his claims for our own protection and the protection of others.
"My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation." (James 3:1)
"If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." (1 Peter 4:11)
For everyone:
Is Rob Bell a universalist? What I know FOR SURE from the reviews, both positive and negative, of his latest book (found two agnostics who love it on amazon.com) is he at least gives the hope that many or all who die apart from an obedient relationship to Christ will have a chance to receive him and be saved after they die. Even implying that we'll be able to be saved even if we die without being an obedient disciple of Christ who takes up the cross daily (as Jesus said we must in Luke 9:23-24) will cause a spiritual carelessness and a false comfort that will destroy many. We know how easy it is to put down the cross, go our own way and love the world. If we don't watch and pray diligently we'll live after the flesh. It's the only possible result of not dying to self and receiving Christ's life by his Spirit (Romans 8:1-4, 13). Was not the neglecting of the resurrection a big factor in the sin of the Corinthians (1 Cor. 15:33-34)? Believing all will be well in the resurrection no matter what is just as bad as not believing in one at all. That's why this is such a serious matter.
The interview MackayMarsh posted above is very good and Martin Bashir makes a lot of great points in it.
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