Dialog w/ Jehovah's Witnesses, Any Scriptural Helps?

Dear Brothers and Sisters

I had my first dialog with Jehovah's Witnesses today. They left me one of their pamphlets last week which I combed through. They came back today and we talked over what I thought. My goal was to explain to them that I stood firmly on the deity of Christ and the Trinity, but in a loving way, and as well to find out some more about why they believed certain things, all of which we did.

I have studied some JW beliefs years back but never put what I learned to use, so I ended up doing a re-study. They do believe that Jesus was a created being, so I asked them what Scriptures they relied on and they replied with Col 1:15, that Jesus was "the firstborn of every creature."

I tried to explain how the Scriptures describe Jesus in the beginning with God, "and the Word was God." I tried to kindly explain that it seemed very odd that every English translation of the Bible from Wycliffe through the King James all said this same thing, not to mention all the modern versions do, as well, but that their version altered the text to bend towards their belief. One of the gentlemen tried to explain that their version was changed to keep up with the changing language, to which I replied that I had no problem with the 14th century Wycliffe version much less the King James (this is the text of the 1395 Wycliffe version for John 1:1 in case you are curious: In the bigynnyng was the word, and the word was at God, and God was the word.)

It seemed as if they were more focused on getting us to agree, which there was much that we did, but I wanted to get more to the matter of these differences, in a loving way, of course, as I explained that I thought they were critical doctrines. I lost track of time but I think we went at least thirty minutes. I thought John 1:1 was the best but they didn't seem phased by it, and said they would bring back some material on John 1:1.

Some Scriptures I brought up were:
-Genesis 1:2, showing the Spirit has creative power (they do not believe the Holy Ghost has a personality, they believe only in an "active force")
-Isaiah 9:6 depicting Jesus as the everlasting Father (they believe this is referring to Jesus as the father of those who enter the kingdom only)
-Micah 5:2 and John 1:1, that Jesus is from "everlasting" and has always been (they believe Jesus was created)

The thing that threw me was that I am so used to explaining the gospel message or some particular doctrine, but in "contending for the faith" they would just agree if I brought up original sin, the coming Kingdom, the sacrificial atonement, the resurrection, etc. We didn't quite get to Hell but I think we might next time (JW do not believe in a literal Hell).

They are supposed to come back so if anyone has any good Scriptures, especially people that are former Jehovah's Witnesses, please post.

I am not a JW nor a former one, however a point I would make is all of these psuedo Christianities ie Mormonism and JW all set up a Works based Salvation.

In order to recieve salvation you must be a good mormon or JW in order to make it to heaven, good meaning following church doctrine, being an active member. Also I would point them to Revelation to my understand they take the scripture about 144,000 in a literal sense that only 144,000 good JW will make it to heaven.

Limited Atonement for the 144,000 everyone else is just forgotten. ie no actual hell just nonexisitence.

Charles T Russell, the founder of JW made a few prophecies that never actually happened.

1799 HE says in his day was the time of the end.

In 1874 He said there was an invisible return of Christ.

He also predicted that 1914 would be the end of the world then once the world didn't end in 1914 he changed it to 1915, in 1916 he died but before he died he prophecied the world would end in 1918.

The founder is a false prophet so why would what he found be reliable?

Couple your John 1:1 argument with this for a stronger implications of Jesus Christ as THE WORD.

Revelation 19:13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

Essentially their claim is that Christ Jesus is "a god" but not THE GOD and infact hold and believe that Christ Jesus is actually the Archangel Michael however Hebrews 1:4-6 which is in the JW bible states

4having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

5For to which of the angels did He ever say,
"YOU ARE MY SON,
TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"?
And again,
"I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM
AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME"?

6And when He again brings the firstborn into (E)the world, He says,
"AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM."

Also you may point them to the fact that Act 8:37 is completely missing from their bible, stating Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

I hope this helps.

Dear Brother,

I work with a JW and while we've had general conversations, we have yet to breach the subject of doctrine....I pray the Spirit will enable the words.

The gospel of John is central to the deity of Jesus, continuing on to verse 3 is where it speaks directly to his role in creation:

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

And this from 1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

God be with you!

This might help you. It is from BlueBible.com. I use it a lot for many things. They get into exposing several cults and the JW is one of them. The Holy Spirit will guide you as you ask. Bless you as your heart is for the lost. Giving God all the glory.

Jehovah's Witness at Your Door Doctrinal Differences

http://www.blueletterbible.org/study/cults/acts/acts_jw.cfm

~~~~~~~

Exposé of Jehovah's Witnesses Erich and Jean Grieshaber

Table of Contents

http://www.blueletterbible.org/study/cults/exposejw/index.cfm

Check out a ministry called "Tower to Truth Ministries". They are, I gather, ex-witnesses who have been born again. Seemed to be a lot of good information there.

I think you are right to stick with the topic of the deity of Christ. In that regard, Greg Koukl has shared some helpful information in an article he wrote, what follows is part of the article...

My purpose is to answer the Arian challenge by giving an airtight, scriptural proof for the deity of Jesus Christ. This technique is so simple you should be able to sketch it out on a napkin from memory the next time someone knocks on your door.

Remember, you don't have to master every counter-argument to every verse thrown at you. All you need is one unequivocal textual proof to make your case. Here it is. It comes from the Gospel of John.

Most discussions of this nature focus initially on John 1:1. It says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." That's the way your Bible reads. But the Jehovah's Witness's New World Translation renders the verse this way: "In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."

The heated discussion that follows is almost never productive. Don't waste your time wrestling with Greek grammar neither of you understand. Just drop down two verses. Verse three says, "All things came into being by Him [the Word], and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." The NWT is virtually the same: All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence."

Have your visitor read the verse out loud. Then take out a napkin or a piece of scratch paper and draw a large box. Explaining that this box represents everything that exists. Run a line right through the middle of the box, dividing everything that exists into two categories.

On the left side write "all things that never came into being," that is, all things that exist but have never been created. Ask your friend, "What goes in that box?" If he says "God" he got the right answer. God is the only thing that exists that has never been created. God alone is eternal and uncreated. Put the word "God" in the left-hand side of your box.

Label the right side "all things that came into being," that is, all created things. Write "all created things" there. Everything in this box was created through Jesus, according to verse three. Ask your friend if he understands that. Now write "created through Jesus" outside the box and run an arrow to the right side.

Take a moment to point out to your guest how this illustration is structured. The larger box includes everything there is, was or ever will be. Each particular existent falls into one of two categories: created or not created.

According to the law of excluded middle either a thing was created or it wasn't created--there is no third option--so the categories are all-encompassing. According to the law of non-contradiction a thing can't be both created and not created, so the categories are mutually exclusive. Any particular thing has to be one or the other. It's very simple.

Next you're going to determine what category Jesus belongs in. Take a coin out of your pocket. Tell your guest this coin represents Jesus Christ. Hand him the coin and ask him to place Jesus in the category where He belongs.

The first impulse of a Jehovah's Witness, of course, is to place Jesus in the category of "all things that came into being" because that's what their theology dictates. In keeping with the teaching of Arius in the early fourth century, there was a time "when the Word was not." Jesus was the first created being and everything else was created by Jehovah through Jesus.

But John 1:3 doesn't allow that option. Look at the wording carefully. John says, "All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being," or in the NWT,"...and apart from him not even one thing came into existence" (emphasis mine).

John says the same thing two different ways for emphasis and clarity: everything that ever came into being owes its existence to Jesus, who caused it all to happen. If Jesus caused all created things to come into existence, then He must have existed before all created things came into existence. Therefore, the Word could not have been created.

In other words, if Jesus created everything that has come into being, and Jesus also came into being (as they contend), then Jesus created Himself. He would have to exist as Creator before He existed as a created thing, which is absurd. Therefore, Jesus can't be placed in the square labeled, "all things that came into being."

Just a side note. Much is made of the Greek word dia, translated "by" in the first phrase, but can also be translated "through." But it makes no difference whether all things were created "by" Jesus or "through" Jesus with Jehovah as the agency (as the Witnesses suggest). The point is that in either case Jesus is existing before the creation of all things that ever came into being.

So, the coin can't be placed on the right. At this point your visitor may want to place Jesus somewhere on the paper outside the larger box. But, as we've seen, you can't do that. These categories are all-encompassing and mutually exclusive; there's no "place" outside to put Him. Everything goes on one side of the larger box or the other.

If Jesus can't be placed on the right side with created things, then He must go on the left with uncreated things, identifying Jesus as the uncreated Creator. Jesus is God.

You can read the entire article from Greg Koukl titled Deity of Christ: Case Closed at his web site www.str.org

In Christ,

Ron

I have talked with many JWs. From my experience with them, it is extremely difficult to win an intellectual argument with them. They have heard all the arguments you may bring forth. They hear these expressed by other people then go back to their kingdom hall and share. Together they will come up with an answer that will leave you frustrated.

You must remember it is a battle of the spirit; that only the Holy Spirit can convict.

What I suggest is that you make it a matter of serious prayer and listen to the voice of the Spirit as you speak with them. When they are talking do not worry about what you will say next. Just listen for the Holy Spirit to tell you to start talking and don't do it before then.

Your best preparation is prayer and a working knowledge of the WORD.

Hope this helps,
ginnyrose