OK, you Greek scholars: a challenge

sermonindex Mar 27, 2011

For some time I've mused on the use of the word 'proud' in newer translations where it has been avoided in the KJV.

Below, I've quoted the NASB, and wonder whether the use of 'proud' is to do with the translators, or the original text? Can anyone comment on this?

In the light of God's abhorrence of pride, regularly expressed throughout the Old Testament, and Christ's invitation to 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light. (28 Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Matt 11 KJV), did Paul really say 'proud', in the following verses? Thanks.

NASB
2 Cor 1:12 For our proud confidence is this: the testimony of our conscience, that in holiness and godly sincerity, not in fleshly wisdom but in the grace of God, we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially toward you.

2 Cor 1:14 just as you also partially did understand us, that we are your reason to be proud as you also are ours, in the day of our Lord Jesus.

2 Cor 5:12 We are not again commending ourselves to you but are giving you an occasion to be proud of us, so that you will have an answer for those who take pride in appearance and not in heart.

Phil 1:26 so that your proud confidence in me may abound in Christ Jesus through my coming to you again.

2 Thess 1:4 therefore, we ourselves speak proudly of you among the churches of God for your perseverance and faith in the midst of all your persecutions and afflictions which you endure.

R

RobertW Mar 27, 2011

... did Paul really say 'proud', in the following verses? Thanks.

I would not qualify as a Greek Scholar, but I think we can answer the question reasonably. In 2 Cor 1:12 Paul uses the Greek word καύχησις (kauchēsis; from 2744; boasting (properly, the act; by implication, the object), in a good or a bad sense: — boasting, whereof I may glory, glorying, rejoicing.) This is a standard definition.

In the passages you quoted, the use of 'proud' is a bit misleading. The concept is not the same as self-glorying as the term often means today. It denotes a rejoicing in seeing the works of God wrought in us or in the church. The praise is directed 'God-wards' and not 'me-wards'.

A gray head is a crown of glory; It is found in the way of righteousness. (Proverbs 16:31)

This is a statement of factual truth. It does not weigh the heart attitude of the grey haired one. I'm thinking now of being 'unashamed'. The world would say that grey hair is a bad thing in many cases because youth is worshipped. But God's statement cannot be undone, a gray head is a crown of glory.

I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. (Romans 15:17)

Here we have 'glorying' described as being 'through' Jesus Christ. This is the same Greek word καύχησις. This is the key. It is not self-glory or excessive self-esteem (pride) in the universal modern sense of the term. It is an attitude or posture brought on through ones knowledge that God is at work and were just elated to be a part of it knowing were not worthy. As it is written, That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. (1 Cor 1:31)

S

StarofG0D Mar 27, 2011

Hey AiG,
I just read this quote today in a book by Elisabeth Elliot. It goes along well with your post.

"Pride is faith in the idea that God had when he made us. A proud man is conscious of the idea, and aspires to realize it. He does not strive towards a happiness, or comfort, which may be irrelevant to God's idea of him. His success is the idea of God, successfully carried through, and he is in love with his destiny." - Isak Dineson, Out of Africa

I especially like that last sentence. This is faith, our knowledge of God, what we know of Him, this is what carries us through. This how we stand. This is how and what we live by.

A few years ago, I met this girl who was probably 17 or so. And when I met her she kept going on and on about her "daddy" which at the time to me seemed to be childish and silly. But it stuck with me. She was in love with her "daddy." This is boasting in him. In the knowledge of Him, in who He was to her.

I believe this be what Paul is talking about when we boast, boast in Him. Glory in Christ. And in a way it is being supremely proud of what He has done and is doing for us. When you're used to the KJV terms boast and glory, pride probably seems a little far off. I do prefer boasting in Him, myself.

However, to boast in God is humility. But to boast in other things, is the same as exalting oneself above the things of God, which is prideful.

That is not a Greek response other. But the topic is interesting. Thanks AiG.

sermonindex Mar 28, 2011

Thanks, Robert, for bringing perspective to this topic. That was helpful, and I will keep it in mind when reading.

"Pride is faith in the idea that God had when he made us. A proud man is conscious of the idea, and aspires to realize it. He does not strive towards a happiness, or comfort, which may be irrelevant to God's idea of him. His success is the idea of God, successfully carried through, and he is in love with his destiny." - Isak Dineson, Out of Africa

I'm not sure what to make of this quote. It may not stand up as well, removed from the context in which it appeared, but thanks for sharing it.