I learn nothing from reading the Book of Revelation of John.

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ArtB Mar 30, 2011

I was just going through the 29 page thread on understanding the Post Tribulation view.

Having studied the Book of Revelation for decades, I must confess I have not learned anything from reading that book, nor can I tell anyone what it all means, and even worse, I can not tell anyone what any of it means. It is far different than John's Gospel and his letters, which are very clear, very rich in historical fact, and is very understandable.

I once adhered to Hal Lindsey's view that the 7 Churches stood for 7 ages of Church History. Well, maybe yes and maybe no. But at least some reasonable argument can be made for this view.

I checked out the origin of the Book Of Revelation, it does appear to have been written in the late 1st Century AD. However, there was much controversy within Christendom about the validity of that book. Many Christians assemblies did not recognize 'Revelations' as scriptural, many others did.

When the New testament was assembled in the 4th century AD, a Council of Christians, those present felt that one of the Apocalyptic Books ought to be included in what would be the official New Testament. They had it narrowed down to the Apocalypse of John and the Apocalypse of Peter. The Apocalypse of John won out over the Apocalypse of Peter by two votes.

I read the Apocalypse of Peter, so I realize why it was a very tough choice if you had to choose one of these two prophecy books. Neither book stands up to the specific details and predictions of the Prophecies of the Old Testament.

Perhaps after the prophecies are fulfilled will it make sense. Till then, it contributes nothing to my relationship and walk with God. Certainly not worth arguing about.

As for pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, and post tribulation views, I've come to the conclusion that all three views are correct. It's according to your faith, what you believe. Pre-tribbers will be raptured before the Great Tribulation, Those who hold to the Mid-trib view will be raptured in the middle of the Great Tribulation, and those lucky ten or twenty people who are still alive at the end of the Great Tribulation will be raptured at that time. By coincidence, I just happen to be pre-Trib. :) :) :)

If anything you read in 'Revelations' that has helped you with your walk with God, promoted your unity with fellow Christians, or enhanced your growth as a Christian: from reading the The Book of Revelation, please share and post on this thread.

I'm not claiming it ought not be in the Bible, I just do not read it anymore unless requested by someone.

L

learjet Mar 30, 2011

If anything you read in 'Revelations' that has helped you with your walk with God, promoted your unity with fellow Christians, or enhanced your growth as a Christian: from reading the The Book of Revelation, please share and post on this thread.

I hear what you are saying brother.

If my kids don't understand what I am saying when I tell them to 'go pickup the yard' or 'take out the trash' they usually come to me and I happily tell them what I meant.

This too is how our Heavenly Father responds to our request for revelation on a matter. Just ask Him, He'll help you out . :-)

Here's some good teaching on Revelation from Zac Poonen:

http://www.cfcindia.com/web/mainpages/through_the_bible.php

Like you, I've studied a bunch of mans interpretations of the book, many of them don't make sense to anyone but the teacher.

Zac has very good teaching on the book, some of which I have never heard before.

Peace,
EJ Lear

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ArtB Mar 30, 2011

Thanks for sharing that Learjet, I'll check out that URL soon.

sermonindex Mar 30, 2011

Hi Brother Art. For the first 9 yrs that I was saved, I didn't even bother to try to get into the Revelation as well.

I think it was GOD's timing, that He had to wait until I was fully emptied of my own opinion on things and get rid of what I had been taught about it from books and teachers, etc.

He had to get me to the point where my mind had nothing in it at all regarding eschatology before He allowed me to even open that book with any intention to understand what it was saying.
Exactly - totally emptied of all pre-conceived thoughts whatsoever and then, excuse this expression, but then POW - that book opened up as if someone had removed a veil and with just a Strong's concordance opened with the Bible, He alone took me through-out the entire Word, from O.T. and New, cross-referencing every verse and by time I was done - in just one day - I had hand written every single passage in the entire bible pertaining to the last days and just sat there dumb struck at what I had read and had written of His Word alone. Not one passage contradicted the others in any way, shape or form and literally - all I could do is just sit there and look at what GOD had wrought. No thoughts of my own in the least. Truly a miracle of miracles, because I never had the best memory on earth for chpt or vs #s, but just this one book became a part of me. I knew the chpt # for any event that a person would bring up besides such a peace and overwhelming Joy of what HE had written and it's clarity - as I felt - written for a child to understand because I've always had a child-like mind.

Well, that's my testimony. This happened around '84-85 and I wouldn't trade the memory of that one day for all the wealth and riches of this world or anything else on this earth. Only He can do that by His Spirit of prophecy and to His Own Glory - because He wrote that Book and is jealous - very-very jealous over it's contents. Bless The LORD of Glory! There's more in His Word about His Second Advent than about His First. Oh, What a Day that will be, when our Jesus we shall SEE - Alleluia, Alleluia, Amen.

His Blessings to you!

A

ArtB Mar 30, 2011

Yes, I too look forward to Jesus return.

Thanks for sharing your wonderful testimony.

Thanks for the URL

K

Know-Him Mar 30, 2011

David Pawson has 10 lectures on the Book of Revelation here on Sermon Index. They have helped me more than any other resource to get a handle on and provoke my thinking regarding this book. Hope this may be of interest to someone. They are well worth a listen to.

C

ccchhhrrriiisss Mar 30, 2011

Hi ArtB...

I know that there are plenty of teachings out there on the Book of Revelation. My wife very much enjoyed Skip Heitzig's linear approach to the book.

http://www.connectionradio.org/teachinglibrary.asp?b=66%20Revelation

While it may not be as "in depth" as some other teachings on the book, it does offer a good survey of it and he covers the various views about eschatology.

J

Joyful_Heart Mar 30, 2011

I listened to both of Zac Poonen's teaching on revelations. EXCELLENT!

On another note, I cant find the post but someone commented on credible people in our day. I one love the ones gone before us the best but the Lord is raising up Saints today to proclaim the True Gospel and I praise God for them.

S

staff Mar 30, 2011

Hi Art,
One important verse which makes this book outstanding is the first verse.This is the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him and he then gave it to us through John.This book comes straight from the throne room of God.

1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John

The verse below shows the importance Jesus Christ thinks of this book doesnt it.So maybe its worth another try!!

7 "Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book." 8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9 But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!" 10 Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. 11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy." 12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. 14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." 17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. 18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. 20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people.
In the book of acts they proposed two men to take over as apostle and then God decided.Joseph called barsabbas didnt become an appostle and Peters appocalypse didnt become canon.
." 23 So they proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24 Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs." 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

(When the New testament was assembled in the 4th century AD, a Council of Christians, those present felt that one of the Apocalyptic Books ought to be included in what would be the official New Testament. They had it narrowed down to the Apocalypse of John and the Apocalypse of Peter. The Apocalypse of John won out over the Apocalypse of Peter by two votes. )

yours staff

sermonindex Mar 30, 2011

Hi brother,

If anything you read in 'Revelations' that has helped you with your walk with God, promoted your unity with fellow Christians, or enhanced your growth as a Christian: from reading the The Book of Revelation, please share and post on this thread.

I think I've understood that the Revelation was given by the same person as Daniel had encountered also in a vision, and Abram.

Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send [it] unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks [one] like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and [his] hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance [was] as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Daniel 10:5 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins [were] girded with fine gold of Uphaz: {a...: Heb. one man} 6 His body also [was] like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude. 7 And I Daniel alone saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw not the vision; but a great quaking fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves. 8 Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength. 9 Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face toward the ground.

Genesis 15: And he said unto him, I [am] the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it. 8 And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it? 9 And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon. 10 And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not. 11 And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away. 12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. 13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land [that is] not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; 14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. 15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. 16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites [is] not yet full. 17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces. {a burning...: Heb. a lamp of fire} 18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:..'

I

InTheLight Mar 31, 2011

If anything you read in 'Revelations' that has helped you with your walk with God, promoted your unity with fellow Christians, or enhanced your growth as a Christian: from reading the The Book of Revelation, please share and post on this thread.

What Revelation teaches me first and foremost is that Jesus is God. In the hour of human darkness when faith, hope and love seem to fade away, we are reminded that Jesus is God.

He is the faithful witness.
He is the first begotten of the dead.
He is the prince of the kings of the earth.
He has washed us from our sins in His own blood.
He is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
He is alive forever more.
Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

In Christ,

Ron

W

wayneman Mar 31, 2011

William Law gives the best advice on how to read the Revelation, and it has nothing to do with interpreting or matching the prophecies with today's headlines. In "The Way to Divine Knowledge" he has John the Shepherd say:

"As I have but one End in hearing the Scriptures read to me, to fill me with the Love of God, and every Kind of Goodness; so every Part of Scripture, whether plain or mysterious, does me the same Good, is alike good to me, and kindles the same heavenly Flame in my Soul. Thus these plain Words, Learn of me, for I am meek and lowly of Heart; and ye shall find Rest unto your Souls; give me, without any Expounder of their Meaning, such an Aversion and Dislike of all Vanity and Pride, fill me with such sweet Contentment in every Lowliness of Life, that I long to be the Servant of every human Creature. On the other Hand, these lofty Words of Scripture,— Behold, a Throne was set in Heaven; and he that sat thereon, was, to look upon, like a Jasper-stone; and there was a Rainbow round about the Throne; and four-and-twenty Seats; and upon the Seats, four-and-twenty Elders in white Raiment, and Crowns of Gold upon their Heads: and out of the Throne proceeded Lightnings, and Thunders, and Voices: and before the Throne were seven Lamps of Fire, which are the seven Spirits of God: and before the Throne there was a Sea of Glass like unto Crystal: and in the midst of the Throne, and round about it, were four Beasts full of Eyes before and behind: and the first Beast was like a Lion, the second like a Calf, the third had a Face as a Man, and the fourth was like a flying Eagle: and the four Beasts had each of them six Wings, and were full of Eyes; and they rest not Day and Night, saying, Holy, holy, holy Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. And when these Beasts give Glory, and Honour, and Thanks, to him that sat on the Throne, the four-and-twenty Elders fall down before him that sat on the Throne, and cast their Crowns before the Throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive Glory and Honour, for thou hast created all things' &c.* {*Revelations, 4 ver. 2 &c.}

"Now these lofty and mysterious Words, instead of puzzling my Head, lay hold of my Heart, which, all inflamed with them, rises up with the Eyes and Wings of the Beasts in their Song of Praise and Honour; and Bows down with the Elders that worship the high and mighty Lord of Heaven and Earth. And thus I want no Hebrew or Greek Scholar to tell me this or that, what are the seven Spirits of God, why four Kinds of Beasts, why neither more nor less than six Wings, who were the Elders, and why twenty-four; but the whole Matter, as if a Glance of the Majesty of Heaven had just passed by me, strikes my Heart with such good Transports of Wonder and Joy, as makes me all Longing and Desire to be one of those, who are always singing the Praises and Wonders of the Majesty of God. And thus, Rusticus, all that the Scriptures give me to drink, whether high or low, is equally a Cup of Blessing to me, and equally helps forward the Growth of Heaven in my Soul."

G

Giggles Mar 31, 2011

Horatius Bonar has a solid commentary on Revelation that's worth checking out. His insights into the first few chapters, especially on the Person of Christ, are particularly edifying. Available free on e-sword:

http://www.e-sword-users.org/users/node/2125?vm=r

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MrBillPro Mar 31, 2011

Want to know whats going on in Revelation? Start watching the news everyday, it's much easier to understand,and it's being played out rightnow.

G

ginnyrose Mar 31, 2011

Wellll, Art, methinks you are approaching the book wrong. Trash all the books you have about Revelation, clear your mind of them. (I agree with the poster who said the only people that understand those books are the authors!) And wait...

Scripture says blessed is he who reads the book and heeds the things that are written therein (Rev. 1:3).

You have any imagination? Now is an excellent time to put it to work for you. And if you do not have one and are lacking in comprehension skills you need to go to the throne and ask for an infusion of it.

Anyhow, I always tell people John is relating a vision he saw. So, try to visualize what he saw. Read it slowly, prayerfully and let these word pictures saturate your mind so you can see these events as they unfold. Simple. Read the book through several times like this before you get to writing. Eventually it will make sense.

Personally, I love the book - it IS my favorite NT book. Isaiah and Ecclesiastes are my favorite OT books.

Hope this helps...

R

rufnrust Apr 3, 2011

Hey ArtB For what it's worth, I have found chapter 4 and 5 have kept me on my face and on my feet for years!

Ruf

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ArtB Apr 4, 2011

I do not have much time to comment now, but I do appreciate all the replies and will take this moment to thank all who responded.

It will take time for me to follow up on the many thoughts and advices given.

As for my Comprehension, I do believe I have a good grasp of the Bible and God's plans for us, which has been unfolding as planned from the very beginning. It is only the Book of Revelation that has eluded me as to its' meanings, particularly after the letters to the 7 churches.

Peace,

ArtB

sermonindex Apr 4, 2011

Brother, Just now, I felt led to post this portion of Scripture but I wasn't sure 'where' I was supposed to post it. I thought I was to post it on the thread I started but no - that did not feel like where it was supposed to go.
I reckon it's to go here, to help direct our thoughts to where they may need to be, before we go too far in dissecting the finer points of eschatology.
I understand that we all have Bibles and I could just post the reference, but I felt it strongly to post the chpt itself. There's something in this chpt that I felt I need to pick through again & again myself.
Bless y'all!

2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
To Him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.