Hey y'all.
Can anyone point me in the direction of a thread on this forum that deals with the subject of tithing? I've read some stuff that throws some doubt on the traditional view, and I just want to hear out some of those who support it (hopefully from the New Testament!)
Thanks
Dom
Well, in the New Testament is is called giving with a cheerful heart!
2Cr 9:7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.
And it says to sell all you have and give to the poor! Glory!
Mat 19:21 Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
Ask, where and how much. The Holy Spirit will lead you.
Glory to God.
Thanks for all that. I guess I don't really want to get into a discussion about it, but would like to read a variety of views and opinions so I can consider it further. However, if anyone has anything to contribute.....
My question isn't really about giving, as I'm aware of what the NT has to say about that. What I need to know is whether the OT principle of the tithe(which, apparently isn't quite so straightforward as many would have you believe), as a requirement for the provision of God, and the promises and curses associated with it (including the "robbing God" part) apply to the NT believer. My feeling is that it doesn't, but I want to give the tradional YES voter a listen (as long as they don't rely solely on OT verses)
Thanks.
this should be fun
Here is a drop in the bucket of links to threads on here about tithing....
Should christians tithe?
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=29327&forum=36
Tithing is not a Old Testament Law !
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=1788&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go
Tithing - Part IV - The Council at Jerusalem
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=36302&forum=34&9
Tithing vs. Good Stewardship
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3006&forum=35&4
Tithing-In the New Testament Church
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=20662&forum=35&start=10&viewmode=flat&order=0
Tithing is not a New testament practice.
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=36264&forum=34&start=20&29
Tithing - new testament practice or not?
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=1696&forum=36&post_id=11003&refresh=Go
How about tithing nowadays?
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=9651&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go
Understanding the biblical truth that my body is now the holy temple in which the Spirit of Christ dwells, I am confident I could formulate a superior biblical defense for the “storehouse” being the wallet in my back pocket, because it’s a treasury room right outside the New Covenant Most Holy Place! That statement may have elicited a chuckle, as it should have because it is a ridiculous theology. But, I am sincere when I say my wallet theology is closer to being a biblically sound doctrine than the current church building/ storehouse theology being taught, yet no one is laughing about the pastors teaching this apostasy. In reality, most of “the church” have bought this storehouse nonsense and believes it to be inerrant truth. I believe it was Adolph Hitler that said “If you tell a lie long enough and loud enough, people will believe it.”
Matthew 19:21 “Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.”
Mark 10:21 “Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.”
Luke 12:33 “Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.”
Luke 18:22 “Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.”
http://www.truthforfree.com/files/PDF/REK-Tithing3.pdf
Here is an ebook devoted to the topic of tithing and answering the questions about Old Testament Tithing.
We find there were actually 4 different tithes the Old testament collected and had. Our traditional view is one tenth of our income. However in the Old Testament they took a tenth for the Priest and Levites, Levites responsibility were health, teaching, and over all taking care of and regulating the law what would you call this today? What do your taxes pay for? from that ten percent there was another ten percent taken for the priest. From this we find another tenth was taken for the Poor, Foreigner, widows, and orphans. There was yet one more tithe taken and that was for traveling to Jerusalem to celebrate I believe one of the holidays but my mind draws a blank for this but it was to basically use on whatever food and drink they wished to use at the celebration. ON the whole, the only things that were taken was live stock and crops NEVER money. What does this tell us then? Only Farmers and herdsmen had to pay a tithe.
If you are interested in more information read the book posted the author spent many many hours in research for his book looking back not only at what the bible says traditionally but all the traditions of the Jewish faith. The tithe was never used to build the temple or even the tent of meeting but those were built by free will offerings given out of abundance.
Ultimately we don't have a biblical tithe that happens in the modern day sense of the bible. We do have lots of condemnation over the topic.
Thanks everyone for your replies so far. I'll be having a good look at the links. As I said, I have a feeling God is leading me into a personal conviction from Scripture (with a little help from my friends) that the common conception of the tithe within the modern church is a misconception, and at worst, a lie perpetrated for the convenience of those who need/want the money for their projects.
Off to work now.
Dom
"that the common conception of the tithe within the modern church is a misconception, and at worst, a lie perpetrated for the convenience of those who need/want the money"
Very much so, I have noticed from my experiences with small churches the preacher will rip heavily into the congregation when the funds appear to look low with a "tithe message" and make such crazy statements that are actually Anti-Christ and false to His known nature in Scripture.
There is also the use of "giving" to receive "blessing" so the heart attitude is not giving about of gratitude to God because He is worthy but giving so I can cut a deal with God. I have a lot of experience with this type of preaching and even just recently left a church because it demanded a tithe of my income. I would have no problem calling it a lie especially since some of the arguments they try to make based off of scripture is at best far fetched.
A head pastor once told me Christ cared so much about the tithe He would stand and watch as people gave to ensure they gave the full 10%. (Reference the poor woman giving her two mites). I will say if you are a part of a church and are in leadership and find you come to this very conclusion, go all the way with the conviction dispite the consequence. Standing up for what you believe is right even if you stand alone.
When men want other men to follow them in His holy church........................Acts 20:30
"Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
29. "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;
30. and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. "................
WHEN MEN ABUSE THE BODY FOR THEIR OWN GAIN...THE LORD'S ATTITUDE.....
MICAH 3
"You who hate good and love evil,
Who tear off their skin from them
And their flesh from their bones,
3. Who eat the flesh of my people,
Strip off their skin from them,
Break their bones
And chop them up as for the pot
And as meat in a kettle."
4. Then they will cry out to the LORD,
But He will not answer them
Instead, He will hide His face from them at that time,
Because they have practiced evil deeds."
It’s not a lie perpetrated at all by churches; do cunning preachers use it to get what they want? Yes.
I went to a church when I first got saved where I willingly and gladly gave 10% and more; the pastor was a farmer from way back but he and his wife traveled to preach the gospel (3 different places every week and to KY once a month), prayed for people on the phone if need be. They helped those who couldn’t pay their bills without asking for their unemployment receipt and they helped with the whole bill and didn’t just give 25.00 toward the bill.
They didn’t waste money on a bunch of garbage that a lot churches waste money on today like a new church building, they had church in gutted old houses! A lot of people didn’t come because it wasn’t some sparkling new church but that was the person’s loss. Or waste money on Kidz Street (i.e. children’s church). They didn’t even have a children’s church, the kids sat there listening with the adults. I was taught so much as a kid sitting in that church that I had no idea that I learned till later. They didn’t mind the playing noise of the children, they said the parents made more noise trying to keep the kids quiet than the kids did playing!!
I do not pay tithes where I live because I don't go to church where I live but I did not mind paying my tithes there and I still do because the new pastor still comes to KY once a month and I drive up there to worship the Lord. Am I compelled to pay to tithes? No, I am not, they don't give messages on "tithing."
The Lord is good and finding good ground to pay tithes to is not easy but I still believe that a workman is worthy of his hire.
God bless you,
Lisa
Thanks for that MGuldner.....I had actually downloaded that e-book already, and started reading it!! Looks very good indeed from what I can tell, and I'm sure it will be very helpful. It really is a thorny subject (but not as thorny as some others!), but don't see that many people supporting the doctrine from a Biblical standpoint - just from a traditional fear-based view.
Love this:
Levites responsibility were health, teaching, and over all taking care of and regulating the law what would you call this today? What do your taxes pay for?
And this:
The tithe was never used to build the temple or even the tent of meeting but those were built by free will offerings given out of abundance.
And this is so true:
We do have lots of condemnation over the topic.
I remember "owing" God "back-tithes"!!!! Never did catch up!
Dom
It really is a thorny subject (but not as thorny as some others!), but don't see that many people supporting the doctrine from a Biblical standpoint - just from a traditional fear-based view.
You are right, it is a thorny issue, especially for those caught up in the BUSINESS of CHRISTIANITY.
And the "simplicity of Christ" gets trampled upon again.
2Cor 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
I cannot find any of the believers in the NT paying tithes, or any of the Apostles asking for tithes. The Epistles are full of discussion about giving for the support of preachers, teachers, and the poor: but no where do any of the Apostles ask for tithes or reminding anyone to pay tithes.
And, how can it be said that a man is NOT giving of necessity if he is obeying the LAW of TITHING? How can it be said that a man is not giving OF NECESSITY, if he is convinced that he will be cursed with poverty if he fails to pay those tithes?
Certainly, if the Apostle Paul thought he was authorized and obliged to demand tithes, he would have brought it up in 1 Corinthians chapter nine, where he asserts that he has a right to receive financial support from those he preaches to! Why doesn't Paul remind them that they are obliged to pay those tithes, and that he has a right to receive those tithes?
As to the only time the New Testament records Our Lord telling anyone to pay tithes; if this was understood as a command to the Church, how come it is never reaffirmed by any of the Apostles? Certainly, this would have been a simple way to guarantee the income of the clergy. Jesus, in Matthew 23:34, is addressing the Pharisees, not HIS OWN disciples, and HE calls the concern about tithing A GNAT. And yet, to the tithe collectors of APOSTATE CHRISTENDOM, the GNAT IS THE CAMEL.
Our friend said it in the quote above. Here it is again:
...but don't see that many people supporting the doctrine from a Biblical standpoint - just from a traditional fear-based view.
Yes, it is supported from a fear-based view in almost every church. Fear of what?
OF TRUSTING GOD and letting HIS APPROVAL CONFIRM YOUR MINISTRY and not the approval of man. Man hires you and man fires you AND MAN CAN CERTAINLY NOT CONFIRM YOUR MINISTRY or even SET YOU IN MINISTRY TO BEGIN WITH.
And that my dear friends is another example in Christendom today, why, the Ground of the Absolute is Diminishing.
If you want to rationalize the Word of God, you will end up paying a dear price.
777
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