Listening to Paul Washer forbidden by a Church leader.

Recently my sister was forbidden by her mentor to listen to Paul Washer sermons for some reasons that I don't know. I deeply respect and admire the spirituality of that woman of God who's mentoring her. But I can't seem to understand that she'll be also one of the many leaders who are very against Paul Washer. I remember being pressured and rebuked by some faculty staffs of one bible school here in the Philippines, because I posted some things at FB that pertains to modern evangelism specially the 'sinner's prayer'.

I remember three or four years ago when the 'shocking youth message' was widely watched by Filipino Christian forummers in a certain online forum site. Though, I didn't agree with Washer's monergism that sermon started a deep awakening on me as well to many others that I know. Still, I do pray that God will continue to send a continuous true awakening through the ministry of Paul Washer and other revivalist out there, For His glory!

Philippines got many churches but is kinda dead spiritually.
where I lived there was an JiL church that where into pyramid gaming. They said God promised them to become millonaries thats why they are selling their houses to finance this heresy.

I am not familiar with the church in the Philippines but I am familiar with human nature.

People like to listen to a feel good sermon, they hate to be told they are wrong and need repentance. It is all about pride being fueled by the modern gospel of enhancing ones self-esteem.

Washer says it like it is and it is high time preachers in the pulpit do it instead of watering down the gospel. Hey! three is an eternity up ahead and all are going to spend it somewhere. If ones' destination is hell there will be no escape. Obviously, not very many preachers even believe this, anymore.

When I was a young girl back in the 1950s hell fire brimstone sermons were common, today they are rare. When moderns hear them they think the guy is weird. But they can go to a football game and get all riled up because of some weird looking pigskin thrown and kicked around! And this is ok!

Perceptions and priorities - what have they become?

Paul washer's "shocking message" was one of the mighty instruments God used to SHAKE me! along with "The revival Hymn". Even if I do not agree with His 5-points Suprgeonism :-) I praise God for using such a man with such a burden and zeal.

It reminds me of God "pleading" with Isaiah (after seeing The Glory of God and yet keep living) "Who will go for us"??

Blessings

God has used Paul Washer's sermon to wake me up to the widespread deception in America. Not too many people would ever dare to stand up against such a massive enemy the way Paul Washer does. Of course, he's not perfect. But I praise God for raising up people like Paul Washer.

Renoncer

Brother, did Jesus try to control people? Did the Apostles control people?

Who in the New Testament tried to control people? The Pharisees.

I don't care how religious and spiritual these people appear to be to you, God is not into controlling people (demons possess, the Holy Spirit fills), run from it.

I remember being pressured and rebuked by some faculty staffs of one bible school here in the Philippines, because I posted some things at FB that pertains to modern evangelism specially the 'sinner's prayer'.

Brother, if you have problems with the whole sinners prayer concept, welcome to the family. Most of us here don't believe in the concept that 'we accept Jesus', we believe that as we cry out to Him, He is gracious and accepts our prayer and we are born again (He accepts us and we are regenerated), from that minute, it's our good pleasure to live a life that honors Him. He gave everything for us!

Peace to you!

Many in philippines like washer aswell.
My wife is filipina and they love to listen to Paul Washer.

Alive-to-God,

Yeah you got a very good advice-prayer is what I need. I really do have forgotten how I have not prayed a lot for the Body about accepting messenger and God's message on him. Though, I have been really praying that God will change the bad presuppositions on evangelism and regeneration that have been widely upheld by many. I listen much more now to Zac Poonen and other people who are more in to deeper life stuffs, but I still been blessed and challenge by Washer's stand for God's truth to be restored in the body of Christ. I know many that have been fired-up for God and been matured through Washer's sermons, but I do understand now why many people doesn't or let their subordinates to listen to Washer; Is that first of all, that God would change much of what their been holding and practicing for many years, like me and the people I know. But the other reasons were, that washer's style of delivery were very and always confrontational. And others that I met have reasoned that Paul Washer doesn't spoke in tongues or that he is a calvinist and the stuffs that is more of an excuse not a reason about him being a messenger of God regarding the wrongness of the modern Christianity that we know today. I also just think regarding the way he delivers that he's not always like that when he's speaking on other issues that has lesser importance regarding the apostasy of this day. Anyway, hope that God will change hearts regarding this things even not through the ministry of washer or some other western revivalist.

Josef,

Definitely! I praise and thank God for what He has done and been doing in our nation for this last 30 years. But as I look first at myself before and the present spiritual coldness in the body of Christ, I came to a conclusion that we should be serious in seeking for revival of maturity and holiness among us. And I do also believe that this includes tearing down wrong unbiblical practices on evangelism and Church confirmation, that we also have to leave the things that hinders us from really seeking God and giving our best for Him. But I still praise for the Church growth here in our nation and our passion for missions and evangelism. But I believe there's gonna be more from God.

I heard Paul Washer’s infamous (or famous) youth sermon a while ago and felt that he was authentic. In fact, after hearing several of his messages now, I still see him as authentic. His passion arises out of love, not a bitter spirit against sinners. It is unfortunate that Washer’s more “radical” messages get the publicity, while his more gentle sermons don’t. It’s the same with Jonathan Edwards. Everyone remembers his sermon, “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” and they may equate him with all the hell/fire ranters. But that is a gross misjudgment of his heart, his teaching and his leadership in the great awakening. It is a misjudgment of the circumstances also.

What troubles me, is not so much Washer himself, but that manner in which some have used his messages. They have used technology on his audios to give a more dramatic emotional effect, no doubt aiming to help induce guilt in the sinner. (But it may also solicit cheers from the self-righteous.) Washer if I recall, was not fond of this embellishing. It may not help that some have put sensational titles to his messages. That could make him seem tabloid-ish. While that may be routine in an American-type culture, it can be offensive in other cultures.

I wonder, do Washer’s message (and by implication, Paul himself) inadvertently get caught up in a momentum energized by fleshly power? Then when those messages fall on the ears of outsiders, they comes across as a turn off, a stench. I think this possibility needs to be kept in mind when trying to understand those who disapprove of Washer. These critics likely know little about his life, ministry, spiritual journey, or his suffering. They do not know the bigger picture. That is always a risk with disseminating recorded messages. The listener is left in the dark about who the messenger really is. They can't discern if the messenger indeed has “beautiful feet”. Rom. 10:17 Scripturally, knowing the messenger is a vital criteria in judging one’s authenticity. “By their fruits....”

Diane

Old_Joe

I wouldn't recommend listening to him either. His lordship salvation gospel is an overcorrection to the antinomianism of our age and instead of directing one onto the road it merely puts one into the "other" ditch. I could not recommend listening to him either, not because his message is too strong, but because it is too false

Uh oh.

To me there are a few reasons why some "Christians" today hate Paul Washers preaching. First, he brings to light the biblical doctrine of true and false conversions. Contrary to Scriptural admonitions, many don't want to be challenged as to the validity of their faith. Secondly, he exposes the golden calf of the "sinners prayer". Many "Christian" workers refuse to let it go because it gives them instant results that they can point to and brag about. It allows them to say, "This many got saved at the event, this many accepted Christ into their heart," all the while completely ignoring the fact that the vast majority of their "converts" are not genuinely born again. These are the same reasons many today hate Ray Comforts teaching on evangelism.

Even though I do not hold all of his 5 point theology, I whole-heartedly amen most of Washer's preaching and praise God for him. And I do not see that as a main concern for many of his objectors, though it may play a part.

Quote by Alive-to-God: There are plenty of Q&A sessions where these details are revealed, if people want to get to know the messenger better.

You know, a while ago I decided to take an adventure and explore the ministry and person of Paul Washer. I downloaded everything I could get for my mp3 player to hear when I was driving. I watched private dialogues and public addresses. Even at that I would be a fool to say I knew Washer well.

I was indisputably blessed by his testimony. I also learned something about his way of thinking and his particular theological focus.

But surely we can’t expect everyone to take that time, or even have discretionary tools. Here’s where we need graciousness (something I particularity need). It doesn’t seem charitable to judge those who are offended by someone’s message (as they perceive it) and assume that these people are shaking their fist at God.

Perhaps it is more effective to work towards learning others’ perspective and draw them towards gospel realities through charitable engagement than through merely trying to “set them straight” on an issue (or person). That’s beautiful ‘feet’ isn’t it?

Question asked: Where does it say we need to 'know the messenger'?
This is a great question. Considering that the biblical world had no concept of mass media tools as we have, or even mass publishing.
I think the apostle Paul put a lot of emphasis on relationship and used that to defend his authenticity.

I Thess. 2:8 "We loved you so much that we were delighted to share with you not only our gospel of God, but our lives as well, because you had become so dear to us."

I see this quality as true for Paul Washer - to the best of his ability as a finite person. We just have to recognize the limitations of our mass media tools.
Diane

Diane

EverestoSama,
If you want a good understanding of the debate between Lordship Salvation and Non-Lordship Salvation, you should read John MacArthur's book entitled "The Gospel According to Jesus" or his new book entitled "Slave".

Briefly, Non-Lordship Salvation means that Jesus can be your Savior without being your Lord. It is a rejection of the doctrine of regeneration. It means that you can be saved and yet never truly transformed by God. According to this understanding, you can be saved and yet live like a devil until you die, but still go to heaven. This is so because salvation doesn't have any effect in delivering the sinner from the power of sin (it only has effect to deliver you from the condemnation of sin). Grace becomes a license to sin if you so desire, since the heart has not truly been changed by the power of God.

On the other hand, Lordship Salvation means that those whom God saves are set free from slavery to sin and become slaves of Christ. Thus, if we belong to Him, He is our Lord. It is aligned with the doctrine of regeneration, which teaches that we are saved by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, who makes us new creatures in Christ Jesus (not just in theory, but also in practice). Thus, salvation means that we are set free from the power and condemnation of sin. It doesn't mean that we don't sin anymore; it means that sin shall no longer have mastery over us. Lordship Salvation is embedded in the fact that a true believer is one who is being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ and disciplined by the Father. If there is no transformation in the person's life, then it shows that the person has not truly been born again, for all those whom God accepts as his children are disciplined by Him.

I hope this clarifies the difference between Lordship Salvation and Non-Lordship Salvation.

Renoncer