LORDship Controversy

Re: 'to be conformed to the image of His Son'

OJ,

Would you please comment upon the following verses as they relate one to another within the scheme of your 'no-lordshipness'.

Romans 8:29,30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Has He predestinated and called us 'to be conformed to the image of His Son' in our glorification only,that is in our glorified bodies in the glorified state when mortality puts on immortality,or is it to be here and now through His sanctification of us,Him working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure?

Thanks.

Worship God.

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To which you replied OJ,

Savannah

Sure I will comment if you will tell me that you 'do ALWAYS those things that please Him'. It will help me to know how conformed to his image you are, and whether what you believe has been put into practice in your life.

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To which I replied,

Re: Loved,Redeemed,Adopted

Thanks for replying to me OJ.

Thanks as well for your patience with me and the others on this forum as you've been bombarded with questions.

Re: "...if you will tell me that you 'do ALWAYS those things that please Him'. It will help me to know how conformed to his image you are, and whether what you believe has been put into practice in your life."

I'd be glad to entreat you, as I attempt to answer your query,although you've not commented upon the two verses quoted in my prior post,but you stated that you intend to do so,and I have no reason to doubt you.

My following confession is an experiential fact. That being, that I DO NOT 'do ALWAYS those things that please Him'. Neither in word,deed,thought or attitude.

This being so makes me no less loved,redeemed,adopted, or predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in Christ, by God the Father's distinguishing predestinating grace.

Eternally loved in Christ before time began.
Redeemed and adopted in time.

Redeemed by the precious blood of Christ,He owns me. He is my LORD. Adopted into His family as a son He disciplines me as it seems best to Him. Being judiciously justified by grace through faith, I am being relationally sanctified by that same grace through that same faith.

Hebrews 12:5-11 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Your error is in equating that any or all who are His 'do ALWAYS those things that please Him', with Lordship Salvation, as it has been called.

As a result of the view of semi-pelagianism which was/is held by many, many concluded that a state of sinless perfection was achievable in this life. Such is not the case,nor do any I know of who teach what is called 'Lordship Salvation' believe this to be so. But rather believe that Salvation is of the LORD,as well as sanctification and preservation.

Lordship Salvation as it is called, is nothing less than a Biblical conversion of a sinner made a saint. Lordship Salvation as it is called,rejects both semi-pelagianism and sinless perfection.

To further answer your question,I am being conformed to His image by His grace,putting into practice what I believe in my day to day life by His grace,even as the Hebrews passages I quoted above make it abundantly clear.

I've answered to the best of my tainted ability. I hope I've clarified it somewhat for you that you may now be better prepared to give an answer to those verses I mentioned. And now if you would,please include how the Hebrews verses would relate as well.

1 Cor. 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace which was toward me has not been without fruit, but I labored more abundantly than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.

Thanks again.

Worship God.

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May we now continue...

Soli Deo Gloria

OldJoe

LS fails at its denial of the two natures of a regenerate man, and propogates the one nature heresy entirely denying that the old nature of man still exists in the regenerate. If the old nature is missing, whence cometh this war in our souls?

Not so, we do not deny the war between the flesh and the Spirit within us. But we reject the excuse that is made for an unrepentant sinful lifestyle on account of that truth of that war. Many twist the Scriptures with regard to the war in the true believer's life between flesh and Spirit. They say in essence, "Since we have two natures it is possible to completely give in to the sinful nature and still be saved, as long as we are trusting in Christ for salvation." They see bondage to the power of sin as a possible normal part of a Christian's life. Yet that goes completely against the clear teaching of God's Word. Romans 6:1-7 declares, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin."

Here is an article I came across which I thought explains the war between flesh and Spirit well:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CC0QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gotquestions.org%2Ftwo-natures.html&ei=ImqyTYWmAoiosAO8-aDnCw&usg=AFQjCNH0xeaEg5afSpZoQjZrsF5Abej1mA&sig2=tXdPLmXQwqSxGFivF0P75g

Solomon was saved from his youth, and yet fell into idolatry of the worst kind towards the end of his life, but this man was chosen to pen several books of the Bible. There is no such thing as loss of salvation, yet the life of Solomon blows up the doctrine of Lordship Salvation.

You are using the example of an Old Testament saint who fell into sin as an excuse for unrepentant, willful sin in the life of a Christian. I don't think that is very wise.

The new nature is imparted, yet the old nature remains. The new nature is owned by Christ, the old nature is all that I can claim that I am, all new is of CHrist. This is why it is important to see that we are ungodly, that is all that we can claim of ourselves. The Christian is counted righteous for Christ's sake, and is counted godly for Christ's sake, but these things belong to Christ and are merely imputed to us by faith.

To a certain degree I would agree with your statements there. In and of ourselves we are all as an unclean thing. with no righteousness of our own. Righteusness is imputed to us by faith for Christ's sake. The problesm with your statement is that you seem to deny the practical righteousness wrought in us by the Holy Spirit. Not only do we have a foreign imputed righteousness from God by faith, but also a practical outworking of righteousness in and through us by the Spirit. That is the process of sanctification.

So I ask, since "Christ died for the ungodly", are you ungodly?

Yes, in and of myself I am the chief of sinners. But blessed be God that He chose me before the foundation of the world to be comformed to the image of His Son(Rom.8:29)and to be holy and blameless before Him(Eph.1:4). I cannot deny that He has done a miraculous work in and through my life. All glory goes to Him for that. It is a reality in the life of every true believer in Christ. Though we may stumble daily He continues to discipline us as a loving Father, and shape us and mold us into His image.

Also, in the sight of God I am no longer ungodly, but a saint. You can see this throughout the New Testament. God no longer sees us as guilty sinners but as saints for Christ's sake.

Many make excuses for living habitually after the flesh, to their own destruction.

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life."(Galatians 6:7-8)

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Where are we when it comes to Christ? It says there is no sin with the Law or sin without the Law, No Greek or Jew. This pretty much takes away all our labor for salvation, except Christ being our all and in all.

Everyone would pretty much flip out if I said it was not God's intension to save us on the Cross. He never had intensions to save me, He tried that with Isreal for 4000 years and they would not. If it were up to God to save me He sure would have done things different in the process with me.

The Purpose of the Cross was to; in not being able to make man capable of attaining salvation by works, to place a new preson in the believer, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory." Never before has anyone seen this kind of person. A new creature in Christ Jesus, born from above and He does not sin for His Seed remains in the believer. My Spirit is Perfect before God and that is what God is depending on for my salvation and who He wants me to be. A New Spirit, Christ in you, a new soul/mind being renewed to the Mind of Christ. and on resurrection day, a new body just like the One Jesus has. If this is not a new creature I don't know what it could be. The wreck I was in when Christ was birthed in me could not be fixed up, it was totaled and had to be a brand new vehicle, "born again" by the incorruptable Seed of the Father, "A new creature".

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Ga 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

The old model was a corrupt Satan sedan, the New Model is a Christ new shinny best there is of God the manufacturer by Jesus Christ in completely different running gear. The Christ in you Model.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. Not fixed up but completely, a new model; Ro 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Ro 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Ro 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Ro 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Ga 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

A new Model in Christ: Phillip

One of the problems is that OJ does not understand the difference between known and unknown sin, willful and unwillful sin or deliberate and undeliberate sin. There is also a drastic difference between a lifestyle of sin or a moment of imperfection of the flesh. I can certainly say that I have repented and turned from all deliberate, willful, known sin and have given up a lifestyle of sin. At the same time I can say that I have areas in my life which fall short of the perfection of Christ and would be considered sin. I also most certainly inadvertently sin upon occasion as I am going through the life long process of sanctification being molded into the image of Christ. For example, I may have unknown areas of pride, jealousy or lack of faith in my heart all of which are considered sin, but none of which would be considered willful transgression of the law. I may also inadvertently get angry or say an unkind word to my wife or speak harshly to a co-worker in frustration. All of the above examples would be considered unknown or unwillfull or undeliberate sin When this sin occurs in my life or God reveals areas of imperfections of the flesh I am quick to repent and turn from them out of love for my Lord and Savior. At the very same time I can honestly say I have no willful, unrepentant, deliberate sin in my life and do not live a life style of willful sin - for example - I do not lie, cheat, steal, commit adultery, get drunk, fornicate, etc and I do not willfully transgress the law. This will help when OJ or others try to point out imperfections and unwillful sin as a argument that one does not have to turn from sin as a requirement of salvation. Also, make sure that the definition of sin OJ is using is "willful transgression of the law" and not the definition of "anything that falls short of the perfection of Christ and glory of God" make sure you hold him to the first definition and his argument and theology will start to crumble and fall apart. The only way his argument can hold up is if he uses the latter definition and tries to blur the clear and biblical differences between willful and un-willful sin.

We also must realize that Jesus many times put requirements on salvation and the requirement was always to lay everything down for him and make Him Lord of our life. The rich young ruler, peal of great price, treasure in the field, pick up you cross, deny self, let the dead bury the dead, hate mother father etc. just to name a few. Just like in the case of the rich young ruler when Jesus told him "one thing you lack" in order to receive salvation. Jesus pointed out what he was putting his trust in and required him to lay it down in order to receive salvation. Jesus does the same thing today - He requires us to lay everything down (out of love, not as a way to work our way to or to earn salvation) as a requirement for salvation, just like He did with the rich young ruler. The thing that OJ's opinions will prevent him from understand is that this is also a sanctification process as well as a initial event. So for instance, when I was saved I absolutely laid everything down out of love for Jesus and made Him Lord of my life, but since then He has revealed and put His finger on numerous other areas and things in my life and heart that I have given up and lay down for Him because I love Him and desire nothing more then to be pleasing to Him - and I can absolutely guarantee that over the rest of my life there will be plenty more things that the Holy Spirit reveals. With that being said, at this time, I have no areas of my life that I currently know of that I have not laid down or are un-surrendered to Christ.

OJ has some WONDERFUL things to say and is REALLY on the right track! I also agree with him that MANY who preach what he would refer to as "lordship" salvation do so in an unbiblical and legalistic way. With that being said there are still somethings that he needs to understand and he cannot reconcile his opinions with the WHOLE council of God.

I really hope this helps the discussion! I have very little time to chime in but this is an extremely important topic and I want to help bring clarity to the discussion. 1. Just make sure that the differences between willful and unwillful and known and unknown sin are always keep clearly defined. 2. Also, make sure that the definition of sin is always kept at "willful transgression of the law" and NOT "anything that fall short of the perfection of Christ and the glory of God". 3. And lastly always clearly define repentance, turning from sin and making Jesus Lord of our life not only as an initial event but a life long process of sanctification. If you can do these three things it will prevent much confusion and help the discussion go much better.

When ever the word "sin" comes up in this thread ask the writer to please define as "known and/or willful sin" or "un-known and/or un-willful sin" also do the same when referring to "laying everything down for Jesus" or "Making Jesus Lord of your life.

I must admit I am confused :) I think the thread has two parts and I am interested in reading the original that started this whole thing.

I have been really thinking hard on this whole think one post of OJ that I agreed with was the one where he quotes H.A. Ironside. The Gospel, to me, is nothing I have gained nor deserved. There is nothing I can do to acquire Salvation other than Believe, Fear, and tremble at the awesomeness and Holiness of our God. BUT at the same time with my belief comes reaction to that belief, a belief isn't much of a belief if it doesn't cause a response or reaction in your daily life.

Repentance to its Greek word Metanoya literally means a "Change of Mind" When I hear that Christ died for my sins and through His sacrifice and the Work of the Cross I can not only be forgiven but also redeemed my first reaction and change of mind should be away from the thing my Saviour died for. If you truly believe the Gospel you will truly appreciate what Christ has done for you from this everything you do for Christ and In Christ is done "not of my self" but flows out of a heart of gratitude rather than Labor.

All we have to do is believe :) Simple enough right? The real question that we need to ask though is does my Faith do something, ie does it work? If I believe there is a monster under my bed, I mean truly believe! Then I will react, by being scared, by having my wife check under the bed, by using a nightlight, etc. For salvation it is all the same this is the kind of belief Christ speaks of a belief and heart that RESPONSE to the call of Salvation.

When Peter tells the crowds "Repent" he is saying change your mind at about this Good News, its really true! In Jewish tradition and sacrifice the animal sacrifices could only cover up sin BUT Christ did something far greater He took sin upon Himself and removed yours and my sin. That's not just Good News but GREAT News! However for the average Jew this was an abomination to say someone died as a sacrifice for Sin. But the Gospel is just that and through Him we now have access to the Father, not according to how much we have laid down, or how holy we appear but according to the Work of Christ, I stand on Nothing less but Jesus Christ and His Righteousness! :) I really don't know how much I have added or taken away from this thread but I do hope I have added.

This is how I see the Gospel a devoted life is simple the side-effects of Belief so to speak.

True belief is the root of it all when you come to believe truly you certainly will fear and tremble. And when also you run into the same glorious truth Christ starts the work in you as an expression of true belief. Also I am no Calvinist either and I believe each has a valued input on the topic.

Old Joe never addressed any scripture presented to him in my posts on this thread nor the thread he began.

He'd rather quote other verses as if they contradict the verses which I presented.

We all know that scripture does not contradict scripture.

This will have to rest for now as you can't teach an old joe new Truth.

"Little children, guard yourselves from idols. Amen."

Do we have the Spirit of Christ in us and the spirit of satan expelled?

Do we have the Holy Spirit Parakleet to convince us of the Fact of Christ in the believer?

Do we still have an old man, unrepentant mind that rears it head between times we are not in the spirit, even though the mind is being renewed in the newness of the mind of Christ that is now in us? The war is in the mind, Paul speaks of so much, it seems that is our only problem. Which if we have the Spirit of Christ, that part is perfect, because His Seed remains in us. Do we war against the Spirit in our spirit, absoultly not. Our spirit is Perfect before God for it is the Spirit of Christ. Our minds are where we struggle and fight and rant and rave about gaining salvation, loosing salvation, being sinless, our old minds with the recollection of all the sin we ever commited only brings us back into its ugly hold on us.

What a man thinks so is he; Philippians 4:4-9 Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice. Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

"He whos mind is kept on thee, though will keep him in perfect peace"

Paul in all His writings at first brings the only way a Christian can do the will of God which is in Christ Jesus and by His working mightily in us to do His will and of His Good Pleasure. "Christ in you the Hope of Glory", then Paul exhorts us to do all things in Christ, without wavering and we will not feed the old man mind with its fleshly tendancies.

That is how we can say we are perfect in Christ and being conformed from old to the new creature we are in Christ.
Again and Again; as He is in this world so are we. 1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

It is no longer we who live but Christ who lives in us.

Galatians 2:16-20 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Colossians 1:3-6 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Finally Pauls final Gospel, "My Gospel".

Colossians 1:21-29 And you, that were sometime (((((((any, some-)time(-s), at length (the last), (+ n- )ever, in the old time, in time past, once, when.)))))))))alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath He reconciled In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, ((((((according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;)))))) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Lastly in Christ we don't sin, only in our minds.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

We cannot have two natures. We have only One Nature, The Nature of the Father by the Son that is birthed in us. God nature and satan nature cannot exist in the same clay pot, lest the pot would burst. Light and darkness cannot exist together, because light reveals the darkness and it is no more.

We Only Have one nature, Christ Nature, born again in us that we might be the new creation race of God's sons', by the Christ in us making us this new creature.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

By Him that is birthed in us, to even see the things of the kingdom.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. "Word"; same word in John 1 He was the Word and the Word was made flesh". Jesus our incorruptable Seed of the Father born again in us. "New Creature" not a fixer upper but a whole new creation in Christ Jesus, The sons of God to fill the Fathers House with His devine Children.

In Christ, How could anything be greater? Christ in me:

Phillip

Praise God for His great love, by which He has set us free from sin, and made us alive in Christ Jesus our Lord!

be renewed in the spirit of your mind

if we sin in ourr mind ,we sin in the spirit of our mind

to say we dont ever sin as christan as it
bases in taking scripture out of contex ,regarding the letter of john

peter sined in actions when he shrunk back and taugh heracy ,,that shows that he did not have sinless perfection

he who is born of god does not continue in sin ,with out repentance ,,that is the contex of the leter of john

and the contex of apostacy also over laps and applies to the above ,,,

sinless perfectioons is not taught in the bible
and the example of petters sin is evdent and not just in his mind ,it became the fruit of his lips

i also see evedent of pauls hipocritacl actions in the book of acts

brother gary

The Word of God separates spirit and soul/mind and even to the dividing of the bone and marrow. Flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of God, and without the Spirit of Christ birthed in us, (born again)we cannot see the kingdom of God, even by faith in our minds. It takes the Spirit of Christ and His kind of faith exchanged for the spirit of satan in the old man and the faith of the world that all men have, given new birth in our spirit to see the things of the Kingdom through the Spirit of Christ, which if we don't have we are, "none of His".

If the Spirit of Christ be in you, we are a new creation, birthed from above and His Seed remains in us. That Seed is the incorruptable Seed of the Word of God, 1 Peter 1:23, the same Word in John 1.

That Seed cannot sin, it is Jesus Christ the Son of God and He is our new life and our perfection in Him. Col 1:26-27 It is His labor that we strive in, becoming the image of the Christ that is birthed in us by the incorruptable Seed of the Father. This is the greatest love, a mothers seed and a fathers seed, new life. The incorruptable Seed of God and the seed of man, One in Christ Jesus our Lord, New Life.

The old man mind still has the old body pulls that can conceive in my mind and bring forth sin. BUT! I now have a propitiation, Christ Jesus, when I confess to the Father, The Father is faithful and Just because of the Cross to forgive and cleanse from all unrighteousness. Praise God.

We only have one Nature and that is God nature by the Spirit of Christ that is birthed in us, now being perfect before the Father By He, Jesus Chrsit that is in the world, so are we" in spirit just like Him.

Paul has the mystery, body, soul and spirit, as in all his epistles this mystery, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory". This is tripartate man God created in the garden to contain the tree of Life Himself, which now the born again have, the exchanged Life, Christ in us.

In Christ: Phillip

Jesus is Lord. I am pretty sure there was no controversy about this in the early church.

Is the spirit of satan in man eternal? yes, unto death.

Is the Spirit of Christ in us eternal? Yes, unto Life

We only have one spirit, it is the spirit of satan that Adam chose for the whole human race, for all die, or the Spirit of Christ, for those in Christ shall be made alive.

Being born again is a new Spirit given us by Grace through faith. Christ in you the hope of glory.

In Christ: Phillip

Romans 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me...

Sin is a powerful inward law or principle lodged in the heart whose whole nature is enmity against God. This powerful river (Sin), flows from the Fall of Adam.

Sin's enmity remains in believers after conversion.

********Below Added after edit

Conversion, being Born Again brings your spirit back to life when you become a child of God...

But Sin still remains in the Soul (Heart), your souls is your mind, your will and emotions.

Sanctification the purifying of our hearts (Soul) is what deals with that Sin that remains...

Quote:

""Sin's enmity remains in believers after conversion.""

Only in the mind and flesh, that is why we are renewing our mind to the mind of Christ and we have been given the priviledge of planting (flesh quickened) this seed of corn being planted in the ground which will bring forth fruit, resurrection unto a new body like His, flesh and bone.

Our Spirit is eternal, which is the Spirit of Christ when we are born again.

Any sin is always enmity against God, that is why the Cross of Christ had to come, that we might become the sons of God. Who has delivered us? Who doth deliver? Who will deliver. Spirit, soul, body.

In Christ: Phillip

We are saying the same thing;

"""Conversion, being Born Again brings your spirit back to life when you become a child of God...

But Sin still remains in the Soul (Heart), your souls is your mind, your will and emotions.

Sanctification the purifying of our hearts (Soul) is what deals with that Sin that remains..."""

My spirit was dead in Adam by the spirit of satan in me.
My Spirit is now the Spirit of Christ alive unto God.

Amen: Phillip

Was it Adams flesh that sinned or was the sin conceived in his mind where he believed a lie.

James 1:14-15 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

My flesh has no will of its own, I must give a mind for it to function. All my life functions are functioning because of my mind. Different parts of the brain control different parts of the flesh, cut that part of the brain off that controls my ability to walk, I cannot walk. These are the lower parts that function because of DNA. My mind is where the upper function of thought and lust and giving my flesh the want to lust because of temptation.

We are saying the same thing only different according to the Gift we have been given. We have the Mind of Christ. Without His mind my mind could not be renewed by the Holy Spirit through my soul/mind to not allow the flesh to win.

In Christ: Phillip