Circular Reasoning...

Maybe I can get someone to analyze this for me. I was in a blog, and they were accusing Christians of using circular reasoning, but I came up with this. Please read:

'The circular argument for the bible is wrong anyway. From what I understand, circluar reasoning is when a specfic source is quoted to be true, then that SAME source is used to justify that it is true. For example: The Book of John states: "For God so loved the world..." Then somone asks, how do you know that is true? Then the response is, because the book of John says it's true. That is indeed a circular argument. HOWEVER, we must remember that using the bible AS A WHOLE, is not, I repeat, IS NOT, circular reasoning. We must rememeber that we are using 66 different sources to justify our reasonings. We are not using one book but 66 different sources. If you want to be really technical, 40 different sources (the authors).

This may be a rabbit trail from you guys are talking about, but I figured I would throw this out there. Let me know what you think John.'

With this said, let me know if I am wrong in writing this. Thanks for your help.

That actually makes total sense, and is actually the miracle of the bible, its not mear coincidence all 66 books refer and referance and have forshadow of one individual in fact its quite amazing to see even four different accounts of Christ so radically similar in nature.

hey warriorforgod

i dont know if what i have is useful or not but in my job i teach clients how to get out of circular reasoning. if a person has circular reasoning patterns they never find the awnser as the question always leads back to a problem not a solution. There isnt circular reasoning anywhere in the bible that i know because the problem always has an awnser. People interpreting the bible may come to a circular reasoning due to their lack of knowledge and guidence of the holy spirit when reading them.

hey warriorforgod

i dont know if what i have is useful or not but in my job i teach clients how to get out of circular reasoning. if a person has circular reasoning patterns they never find the awnser as the question always leads back to a problem not a solution. There isnt circular reasoning anywhere in the bible that i know because the problem always has an awnser. People interpreting the bible may come to a circular reasoning due to their lack of knowledge and guidence of the holy spirit when reading them.

Crusader, you are going to have to give me an example of what you are talking about, because I don't understand where you are going with this.

Hey there Aaron,

I believe what he is trying to say is Atheist will accuse Christians of using only one source to prove an argument. Like The bible proclaims itself as the Infallible word of God, how do we know that? Well because the bible says so, that would be circluar reasoning.

What WoG is saying though is we don't have just one Source but 44 different Sources from a variety of times and places that say very similar things seperate from each other. Thus Each individual books counts as a source rather than just the bible. How do we know the bible account of Christ is true? Well because we have 4 different accounts of Christ all very close to the same from 4 different people. I work with police officers one of the things their trained to do is listen to Eye Witnesses and get all the stories to see if everything lines up, we not only have 4 different Gospel accounts from 4 different authors but we also have various books of History that speak of Christ Jesus, thus strengthening our evidence. Circuluar reasoning would have stopped at "The bible is true cause it says its true." We however can break out of that reasoning because we have more than one account from multiple vantage points and time.

Circular reasoning is a formal logical fallacy in which the proposition to be proved is assumed implicitly or explicitly in one of the premises

A circular reasoning example
“Carrots cause death, all people who ate carrots in 1833 are now dead, this proves that carrots cause death”

Formal reasoning
All people in 1850 are now dead as the average life span was 50 to 70 years old. Carrots were a popular food source 161 years ago.

It is the phrasing of the question that defines the reasoning as to whether it is circular reasoning or formal reasoning, it is important not to awnser a question until it is clear as to what is actually being asked. it can be used as a verbal trap in conversation or in our thought patterns. the best person I have seen with answering this is Ravi Zacharias, he will always define the question first as to whether or not it is a valed statement. You can see his videos on youtube especially the question and answer videos.

as i stated i wasnt sure whether my responce was useful or not and i am fully open to exploration of views towards my understanding of it. if it wasnt helpful sorry

hi mgulder

thankyou, that is what i was basically saying. but i would also add not only the bible backs up what it means but history, science and witnessess also add weight to destroy any circular reasoning shot at the bible. ravi zacharies will use many different resources to back up the bible even using the persons own sources of arguments to dispell their position this takes Gods wisdom to acuratley weild the sword in this manner. Many non believers that read the bible see contridictions and circular reasoning because they do not know the way in which to read it. example the english language has alot of words created in its language. where as hebrew doesnt there for one word can have many different meanings depending on the context it is used.

I need to apologise for the way i have awnsered on this post. I am not happy with the awnsers i have given as they are incomplete and all over the place. The Holy spirit is directing me to study this from a stronger biblical view. It is hard for me to communicate in writing as my gifts are more in speech and visualisation. Thankyou for posting this post as well as the replies as the Lord is going to deepen my understanding in this area. :)

Hebrews 6:16 "For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end to all strife."

Hebrews 6:13 "For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself."

Even God uses some circular reasoning.
Why do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?
God says it is.
where does He say that? The Bible.
2 Timothy 3:16 "all Scripture is given by inspiration of God,"

I believe by faith that the Bible is the infallible word of God because it claims to be the word of God. The Bible uses circular reasoning to prove itself.

"Everybody must use some degree of circular reasoning to defend their ultimate standard. Even God." Dr. Jason Lisle

No worries Crusader, I thought you answered the question quite well and I at least understood what you were saying :) Practice makes perfect, another good practice is rereading what you typed and asking Does it make sense and is it all I want to say?" I am more of a writer than a speaker so perhaps we can learn from each other eh? Anyways don't be discouraged a great multitude here are quite forgiving on the forum. :)

hi Elihu17

in responce to your question. I personally wouldnt awnser that question with that response because i can see the trap already. I have seen this responce to this question many times and it becomes more of a battle of memory and intellect with few spiritual victories.

1. what is the question trying to state or assume?
2. secondly what is the intent behind the question because it is principalities that we are fighting against not flesh and blood.
3. what kind of soil (heart) are you putting the seed of God on because their is a different responce for each.

recent example that happened with me

- Co-worker: i have studyed theology and i dont believe the bible is the word of God but made up of men
- me: I can see that you want a debate
- Co-worker: yeah because i will floor your arguments
- me: Then what you are wanting is a fight
- Co-worker: yeah because i am bored
- Me: I personally know there is a God because of the relationship i have with him.

i gave my friend my testimony of how i was angry and hurting and it was Jesus that showed me love and delivered me from the life of destruction that i was in. My Co-worker broke down in heavy tears and it was at this point that i was able to talk about the living word to her.

in this case it was the truth in my testimony that instilled hope to her that God is real and wared against her own principalities. the awnser to a question should always be lead by the holy spirit as it is Jesus who knows what someones heart condition is the bible then backs this up.

this post and the responces has been such a blessing for me as while we are chewing the cud on this my clients are throwing circular reasoning at me all day and i feel that this is deffinatley sharpening the sword in my understanding.

an underground crime figure made this statement to me today:

"i need to change my life but i cant because i cant escape my life"

his reasoning was so full of dead ends and no hope that the enemy has drove him to a cliff in his thinking.the next step will be jumping so i have to be vigilent in prayer for this man. most of my clients thoughts revolve around circular reasoning hence why they take drugs to escape it.

Thanks all for the Circular Reasoning test. I figured I had found something good that I can use, but I wanted to test it with others.

As far as God declaring something is true therefore it is, I couldn't agree with you more. I know that God too cannot lie, therefore His word must be true. But if I am a sin loving sinner who wants to justify everything I do, not only must the Holy Spirit reveal the truth of Gods word to me, but we also must endeavor to stop the mouths of those who say it isn't.

I don't want to go on rabbit trails. I prefer this thread to remain as is for future use. Once again, I thank you all for the verification. God Bless.