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"Deeper Experiences of Famous Christians"

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JoshG May 6, 2011

I have just stumbled upon one of the greatest books (outside of the bible) I have ever read!!! It’s called "Deeper Experiences of Famous Christians" by James Gilchrist Lawson (1911)

Download the PDF at -
http://www.sent2all.com/Deeper%20Experiences%20of%20Famous%20Christians.pdf

Its a collection of short biographies of some of the greatest Christian men and women who ever lived! It majors on how they came into deeper relationship with God and the results of it...

It goes through the experiences of mainsteam well known Christian revivalists like Charles Finney, John Wesley, George Fox, D.L. Moody... However, have you ever heard of people like Girolamo Savonarola, Madame Guyon, Billy Bray, Jacob Knapp, Lorenzo Dow, etc? I am only half way through reading but I am yet to be disapointed with what I have found... Its had a HUGE impact on my faith and hunger!

Acts never ceased! The power of Pentecost continues to the present! The Holy Spirit hasn't changed, we have...

M
momiam13 May 6, 2011

I express concern that Madame Guyon is included with others who experienced a genuinely deep relationship with God. Please consider the following article:

http://www.logosresourcepages.org/Believers/guyon.htm

Grace, mercy, and peace!

J
JB1968 May 6, 2011

Great book! It will do you good to read it. It is amazing how God will lead anyone who submits to Him to the knowledge of the truth.

S
sam09 May 6, 2011

Thanks!

God bless you JoshG.

S
StarofG0D May 6, 2011

I express concern that Madame Guyon is included with others who experienced a genuinely deep relationship with God. Please consider the following article:

You cannot take one or a few quotes by her and tear down everything that she says!

If you did that you would find fault with everybody!

Zac Poonen and John Wesley both referred to her writings.

In the Lord,
Michelle

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Giggles May 6, 2011

The book has been on my shelf for sometime, but I haven't gotten around to it. This summer it is on my reading this though!

sermonindex May 6, 2011

StarofGod,

There are many, many quotes you can take. Madame Guyon has left us with much to be concerned about.

There are quite a few things about her that are legitimate to be concerned about. I also have been blessed by some things as I read her books but definitely not all. That is how the enemy works. He mixes lies with truth.

When I first read her books 25 years ago, I did not catch anything wrong about what she said. I did not have a great grasp on God's Word and I thought she was awesome with these "experiences" that she had. But that is not the case today. Today, I am concerned about many things that she has said and taught in "Experiencing the Depths of Jesus Christ" and other books.

The post that momiam13 wrote touched on many things that I noticed also.

Madame Guyon's writings are experiencing a resurgence in popularity because of the Mysticism of Emergent Church Theology and Catholic Ecumenical Theology which has seeped into the Protestant "tributaries". In many ways her books have become the "fuel" for various Christian "mystical" movements.

Madame Guyon's mysticism is described as “the immediate feeling of the unity of the self with God.

She doesn't talk about inner feelings of praise or gratitude for what God has done, but rather “The complete union of the soul with God".

You can read about some of it, here.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07092b.htm

She tends to confuse Creator and creature, because she errantly seeks Christ not in God’s Word but in the self.

What I was concerned about and what I look for now in touted "Christian mystics" is that their mystical experience displaces biblical revelation, becoming the final goal and authority.

Madame Guyon adhered to a school of mysticsm sometime called Quietism, which is an extreme form of Roman Catholic mysticism that emphasized the cleansing of one’s inner life and included the belief that one could see Christ visibly. I know some of have, but the Bible does not teach us that we can see Christ visibly. I think many of the manifestations that she saw were demonic. Satan can appear as an angel of light and will give the soul that is seeking experiences and manifestations, what they want.

In her autobiography, on page 14 she wrote that “divine wisdom is unknown and she made no attempt to speak of God’s revelation of Himself in nature and creation (Psalm 19, Romans 1) and the specific revelation of God in Jesus Christ and His Word. She taught that we can know of God by “passing forward into God, (also on page 14) going into a mindless, meditative state where we can get in touch with the Christ within the self, merge with that Christ and be lifted into ecstasy.

What I am concerned about is the Christian putting themselves into a state of passivity, which is the Devil's playground.

I do appreciate Zac but we must remember than no man is the standard by which everyone else or other teachings are judged. Any of us can be fooled and we see that if it were possible in the end days, even the elect will be deceived.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall DECEIVE the very elect.

Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to SEDUCE, if it were possible, even the elect.

Please remember the Catholic Church uses Catholic Mystics to impress Protestants and make them think they are missing something. This has worked very well for the RCC as many Protestants have "come home to Rome".

Unfortunately, she has become quite big in House Church circles as well, as she has been promoted for some time by Gene Edwards who sells her books. Gene is quoted as saying, "Put your Bibles away for a year and just be led by the Spirit".

God's Word will always be the standard.

Respectfully,
A777

P.S.

Here is an extract from another source I found that has more for you to chew on and pray about.
http://philadelphians.50megs.com/warrencom.html


On p.193 (day 25) Warren quotes a neutral statement by Madame Guyon “It is the fire of suffering that brings forth the gold of godliness.” On his website he promotes the book “Deeper Experiences of Famous Christians” saying This is an anointed little book that reports on the deeper life experiences of Christians such as D.L. Moody, John Bunyan, Madame Guyon, John Wesley, and many others. While these other men are respected Guyon is not. Madame Guyon was a Roman Catholic mystic who lived during the 17th and 18th century that was a promoter of “quietism,” which involved becoming so passive that you become indifferent to everything. This was an extreme form of Roman Catholic mysticism that emphasized the cleansing of one’s inner life and included the belief that one could see Christ visibly.

Misinterpreting Jesus words in Luke 17:21 she began her lifelong journey within. She responded to the Lord, “Thou wast in my heart, and demanded only a simple turning of my mind inward, to make me perceive Thy presence. ... The kingdom of God is within you.”

Madame Guyon said that she had reached the point where she was no longer capable of sinning. She said that sin involves self, and she had become free of self. Therefore, she could no longer sin. ”

“she and La Combe could communicate for hours without words in some kind of strange telepathy. She asserted they could read each others hearts. (Guyon pp. 286-287) That her trance states, which left her unable to speak for days, were good and godly (pg. 281). That she had written under the direct inspiration of God, often not even being aware of what she was writing. She claimed to have found within herself, “latent treasures of wisdom and knowledge.” (pp. 321-322). She said her writings were spirit-dictated (Ibid., pg. 324). Evelyn Underhill, herself a promoter of mysticism and myths, refers to Guyon as a “medium” exhibiting clairvoyance, prophecy, telepathy, and automatic writing in bewildering profusion. Evelyn Underhill, Mysticism, 1990, p. 295 (referenced from PFO in the Quarterly Journal article- THE MINDLESS MYSTICISM OF MADAME GUYON Countering the Myth of Intermittent Deification and Sinless Perfection by G. Richard Fisher)

sermonindex May 6, 2011

When I think of experiences of "deeper Christians" I must also associate the Gospel to their lives, and judge accordingly. The "Deeper Life" in the Bible, the man and women used by God in specific, ordained ways, was always associated with power, and an evangelistic Nature of God, as He promoted His Nature in their lives.

The Cross of Jesus, and Salvation always seemed to follow these people. Suffering also seemed to be their portion. We look back, and as they say, hindsight is 20:20 vision. It's all right there in front of us.

Usually, their lives were not heralded when they lived..[not always] and most of them were soundly rejected by the religious establishment when they lived.

All of them brought a glory to Jesus remarkable..and their devotion to Jesus astounds me.However, their is a tendency to heroize mankind....and let us remember, that they were just as much a wretch , each day of their lives, as you or I.

They had to trust in the blood each day, that the Father would look upon them covered by the blood of Jesus, and that, and only that, made them pure, and powerful in Him. They were just common men and women, like Elijah, who learned to deny themselves, pick up their own daily deaths to themselves, and follow Jesus.

16. "Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

17...Elijah was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

18And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

Just inadequate, common weaklings made strong through a faithful and Mighty Creator and Savior.....Jesus!

Another weakling who made a difference.

2 Corinthians 12:8-10 (King James Version)

8. "For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

9. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for

......"My strength is made perfect in weakness!"..Jesus

Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake:"

...."For when I am weak, then am I strong!"...Paul the Apostle.


D
dbiser May 6, 2011

I love books like this as well. Glad you found it and read it. There is another one similar to this, actually several like the theme of it. 'They found the Secret' is one with over a dozen bios with there deepening walk and indwelling of the Spirit. And Wesley Duewel's 'Heroes of the HOly Life' is another collection. Many of them the same but still good stuff.

until,
dan

sermonindex May 6, 2011

Great points, BrotherTom,

We do have a tendency to "heroize" men and go beyond the Word. I think many have found the Word boring today and are seeking experiences and emotional rapture.

We have a tendency to want to live vicariously through dead people's experiences with God rather than experience the Lord, Himself and I don't mean emotionally.

We even do this with those that are alive.


A777

S
StarofG0D May 6, 2011

She tends to confuse Creator and creature, because she errantly seeks Christ not in God’s Word but in the self.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;WHICH IS CHRIST **IN YOU** THE HOPE OF GLORY


Madame Guyon's mysticism is described as “the immediate feeling of the unity of the self with God.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


sermonindex May 6, 2011

StarofGod,

It's clear you have not read her books. The preponderance of the total of her writings suggest strongly, much differently than what you are proposing.

Peace,
A777

sermonindex May 6, 2011

A777 said: "We do have a tendency to "heroize" men and go beyond the Word. I think many have found the Word boring today and are seeking experiences and emotional rapture.

We have a tendency to want to live vicariously through dead people's experiences with God rather than experience the Lord, Himself and I don't mean emotionally."

"We even do this with those that are alive."...A777....

I might say "especially" with those who are alive. There are many that desire a king, and many kings who glory in their congregations as their kingdoms. They seek those who would heroize themselves, submit to them, and honor them.

It is the nature of the "Clergy/Laity, and THE Pastorate...and the true meaning of the "Nicolaitains"...."Kings over my people.." [ which Jesus hates...both deeds and this doctrine..]

Saying that, as the voracious reader you appear to be A777, we both know the blessing and inspiration we have received from devouring some of these Saints who gave all for their master...and fought through all the way.

I'm glad they were recorded...and above all...that the Bible, as you say, was recorded in it's purity. Many gave their lives to see that through too.

L
LoveGodsWay2 May 6, 2011

I have this book. Very inspiring testimonies for saints of the past. Good read.

sermonindex May 6, 2011

Saying that, as the voracious reader you appear to be A777, we both know the blessing and inspiration we have received from devouring some of these Saints who gave all for their master...and fought through all the way.

Point well taken, Tom.

I have been blessed by many testimonies that Glorify Jesus Christ and not men. And learning about Church History has given me an understanding as to why the Church is in such a predicament as it is, today. All foreordained of God, I am sure, to test our love and affection for Him.

A777

sermonindex May 6, 2011

Yes, LoveGodsWay2, I have heard others say, except for Guyon the testimonies are wonderful.

S
StarofG0D May 6, 2011

except for Guyon the testimonies are wonderful.

I hope you will say that to her in Heaven, brother! :)

sermonindex May 6, 2011

Could I ask which Bible would Mme Guyon have possessed?

It seems she was indeed led astray by the misquoting of scripture to her, but I don't believe she would have had either Erasmus' corrected Vulgate, or Calvin or Tyndale.

Now I know more about her story, I see why the hymn which has passed into Protestant hymnbooks - All scenes alike, engaging prove - tie in with Quietism.

Thanks for drawing attention to this.

sermonindex May 6, 2011

Dear StarofGod,

Of course I cannot judge her salvation, but when I do a taste test of the water she is handing out, it doesn't taste good. Nothing like the water that the Lord gives.

When we mix the Lord's water with anything else, it causes indigestion and sometimes is poisonous.

Amen AtG.

Kindly,
A777

sermonindex May 6, 2011

the human vessels of God's Love and Mercy are David Brainerd, Count Zinzendorff and Dietrich Bonhoeffer....oh yeh, and i happen to be quite fond of King David.....they are templates for me on this walk with God, as well as the Earthly Ministry of Jesus, which is the Foundation.

i got to keep this Faith simple, otherwise i crash and burn.

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