Lazy people are not Christians...

I know this may open some cans, but I have been thinking for some time about this, and want some of your inputs.

A lot of people like to trivialize certain sins. They even laugh at the fact that certain sins are committed by certain people. Others are apathetic to the fact that these trival sins are not that trivial. One of those sins in particular that I wish to discuss is laziness. Some portions of scripture call it slothfulness, drowsiness, and sluggardness (KJV).

Because of the testimony of scripture regarding this specific topic, I have noticed that there is a contradiction between the nature of godliness and laziness. I have read sermons that say a similar thing when it comes to those that are lazy. That to me expresses that a person cannot call themselves a Christian and continue to be a lazy person. I mean, no one seems to laugh when someone says that they are a pretty adulterous person, nor would they just blow it off as if it were ok to be such and be a christian. So why when do the same concerning laziness (that is not my question)?

So I have two questions, the first I am pretty set on, but desire some extra input, and the second I am debating still. 1. Can a person be saved yet continually lazy? 2. Should we tell a professing believer how sinful it is to be lazy just as much as we would would tell them that lying or adultery is? Part B to that question is, can we tell somone they are lost if they exhibit continual laziness?

So I guess there are three questions. Please do not answer without giving some kind of scripture to back up your statements. If you disagree or agree, reference something from scripture as to how you drew your conclusion. Thank you very much fam.

I agree A777.

The following article may be helpful as well:

"What does the Bible say about laziness?"

Newton’s first law of motion states that an object in motion tends to remain in motion, and an object at rest tends to remain at rest. This law applies to people. While some are naturally driven to complete projects, others are apathetic, requiring motivation to overcome inertia. Laziness, a lifestyle for some, is a temptation for all. But the Bible is clear that, because the Lord ordained work for man, laziness is sin. “Go to the ant, you sluggard! Consider her ways and be wise” (Proverbs 6:6).

The Bible has a great deal to say about laziness. Proverbs is especially filled with wisdom concerning laziness and warnings to the lazy person. Proverbs tells us that a lazy person hates work: “The sluggard's craving will be the death of him, because his hands refuse to work” (21:25); he loves sleep: “As a door turns on its hinges, so a sluggard turns on his bed” (26:14); he gives excuses: “The sluggard says, ‘There is a lion in the road, a fierce lion roaming the streets’” (26:13); he wastes time and energy: “He who is slothful in his work is a brother to him who is a great waster” (18:9 KJV); he believes he is wise, but is a fool: “The sluggard is wiser in his own eyes than seven men who answer discreetly” (26:16).

Proverbs also tells us the end in store for the lazy: A lazy person becomes a servant (or debtor): “Diligent hands will rule, but laziness ends in slave labor” (12:24); his future is bleak: “A sluggard does not plow in season; so at harvest time he looks but finds nothing” (20:4); he may come to poverty: “The soul of the lazy man desires and has nothing; but the soul of the diligent shall be made rich” (13:4 KJV).

There is no room for laziness in the life of a Christian. A new believer is truthfully taught that “…it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9). But a believer can become idle if he erroneously believes God expects no fruit from a transformed life. “For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do” (Ephesians 2:10). Christians are not saved by works, but they do show their faith by their works (James 2:18, 26). Slothfulness violates God’s purpose—good works. The Lord, however, empowers Christians to overcome the flesh’s propensity to laziness by giving us a new nature (2 Corinthians 5:17).

In our new nature, we are motivated to diligence and productiveness out of a love for our Savior who redeemed us. Our old propensity toward laziness—and all other sin—has been replaced by a desire to live godly lives: “He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need” (Ephesians 4:28). We are convicted of our need to provide for our families through our labors: “If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever” (1 Timothy 5:8); and for others in the family of God: “You yourselves know that these hands of mine have supplied my own needs and the needs of my companions. In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: 'It is more blessed to give than to receive'” (Acts 20:34-35).

As Christians, we know that our labors will be rewarded by our Lord if we persevere in diligence: “Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers” (Galatians 6:9-10); “Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving” (Colossians 3:23-24); “God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them” (Hebrews 6:10).

Christians should labor in God’s strength to evangelize and disciple. The apostle Paul is our example: “We proclaim him [Christ], admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ. To this end I labor, struggling with all his energy, which so powerfully works in me” (Colossians 1:28-29). Even in heaven, Christians’ service to God will continue, although no longer encumbered by the curse (Revelation 22:3). Free from sickness, sorrow, and sin—even laziness—the saints will glorify the Lord forever. “Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain” (1 Corinthians 15:58).(© Copyright 2002-2011 Got Questions Ministries)

I think we have to be careful that we don't create a scenario that a person wonders how much 'work' they have to perform in order to be saved. Work is a hard thing to measure. Some perceive certain types of work as 'laziness' because they don't understand that responsibility and decision making can be tiring. Bible study and preaching is 'work'. Being a king would be work if the king was truly doing his job- even though his work may not be digging ditches, etc.

Paul writes:

Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. (2 Thess 3)

Here Paul gives another reason as to why he did not always exercise his right to be supported in ministry; "to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us." He did not want people to get the wrong impression. He went above the call to set an example if perchance 'laboring in the word and in preaching' was not sufficient to satisfy concepts of work. He did double duty.

He goes on to reiterate the seriousness of a person pulling their own load, "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat." Minister in 1 Cor 9:13 is ergazomai and it is the same word used in the above text. So we know that ministry is 'work'. They are worthy of eating of the labors of those they minister to as surely as an ox is worthy of eating of the fruit it treads upon. But there were some among them that neither 'worked' or 'ministered' but were rather, "disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies." That is, periergazomai, 'peri' being added to 'work' apparently meaning they go around avoiding working. Robertson gives this comment: “The first persecution at Thessalonica had been fostered by a number of fanatical loungers (Ac 17:5)” (Moffatt). These theological dead-beats were too pious to work, but perfectly willing to eat at the hands of their neighbours while they piddled and frittered away the time in idleness."

I don't mean to sound rude, but none of you answered my questions.

1.) There were some believers amongst the Thessalonians who were slothful (partly because of some imbibing of bad eschatology I think.) Paul said to them in Ch 3:10, "For when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread."

In this passage Paul does not say that they are not saved, nor does he address a hypothetical perpetual situation. He just exhorts against sloth at the command of Jesus. So I think that kind of answers 1 & 2.

2b.)I would always be careful to let God be the judge of the eternal standing of any soul. Matthew 13:24-30 would be the basis for that conviction, amongst many other passages. Just exhort to righteousness, if you are spiritual and have a desire for that persons well being, and you do it with a spirit of meekness. Pray for them first. And pray for your own heart.

I am not really sure its our place to judge, and I know that may sound like a cope out but think about it. To everyone Laziness has a different definition and though you maybe a hard working individual someone else who works harder than you can easily point the finger at you and call you Lazy and that perhaps your salvation is at stake.

Romans 2:1 "THEREFORE YOU have no excuse or defense or justification, O man, whoever you are who judges and condemns another. For in posing as judge and passing sentence on another, you condemn yourself, because you who judge are habitually practicing the very same things [that you censure and denounce].
2[But] we know that the judgment (adverse verdict, sentence) of God falls justly and in accordance with truth upon those who practice such things.
3And do you think or imagine, O man, when you judge and condemn those who practice such things and yet do them yourself, that you will escape God's judgment and elude His sentence and adverse verdict?"

To whose standard is Laziness judged? I know many who work hard labor far beyond what a normal person ought to work only to go home and do more work, certainly their standard of laziness is far from my own and so they would be a stricter judge. I understand there are those that are out right lazy, I have met them but am I a just judge to make that call as to whether or not they are saved? I wouldn't dare do something like that because only Christ is the judge. So what then we just let them be lazy we just say nothing? Yeah, but we don't do nothing we act as Living Testimony through our actions and show them what hard working individuals look like in hope that the Holy Spirit will convict them of their laziness.

Ultimately God knows their heart and why they act the way they do, if you are looking for Judgment on the matter wait for God to do it because He will. Have you thought maybe there are other reasons why they are lazy? Perhaps a medical condition? I would hate to falsely accuse someone in anyway and I would hope you wouldn't try and make that call except perhaps for your ownselve. We really only can look to ourselves and often times when we see our own laziness and are convicted of it we have a knee jerk reaction to say well "I'm not the only lazy one, or Their Lazier." It becomes a big finger pointing game but its really between God and the Individual.

I don't mean to sound rude, but none of you answered my questions.

If your looking for a sound bite you will probably not find it here. Your questions do not have slick answers. They are far too involved and contain far too many variables, especially if your interested in a bible based answer.

1. Can a person be saved yet continually lazy?

Is that your definition of lazy or mine?

2. Should we tell a professing believer how sinful it is to be lazy just as much as we would would tell them that lying or adultery is?

I have not appointed myself to correct the children of God in this way except as I would have a good opportunity and as to be led of the Spirit. As we have shown in a few examples, this is not how the issue is approached in the New Testament. There are no examples of folk being warned in this way that I am aware of.

Part B to that question is, can we tell somone they are lost if they exhibit continual laziness?

Why would you want to if you have no biblical precedent? Correction in the NT is always with a view to restoration to Christ and not retaliation. Discipline is not one believer growing fed up with another persons behavior to the point the want to use the nuclear button (their security in Christ) to motivate repentance. If (not saying it is) that is the case the person with the laziness is probably the one with the speck and the corrector has the beam.

I understand that maybe I should ask this question somewhere else. It seems like I am trying to condemn someone and I assure you all this isn't the case.

Also, there are a lot of doctrinal presuppositions that are needed in a debate like this, and it seems clear that you all do not possess those important presuppositions. Since I do not have the patience to type it all out, I apologize if I riled you up in any way, I am sorry that I could not continue this conversation any further, I am really sorry that I have wasted your time. God Bless and thank you for the answers you did give me.

It seems like I am trying to condemn someone and I assure you all this isn't the case.

If this is true you may want to alter your approach to the subject. Your header reads, "Lazy people are not Christians..."

Also, there are a lot of doctrinal presuppositions that are needed in a debate like this...

Personally, I am not interested in a debate in the standard sense of the word. I do not approach these discussion forums in that way. I view these forums as a place to come together and reason in the scriptures with a view to edification of the believer and the glory of God. Debates typically are designed to set forth a winner and a loser (I'm right and you are wrong, my decision carries, etc.).

Since I do not have the patience to type it all out,...

Patience is very much needed in these forums. It takes time to understand where people are coming from and to ascertain the mind of God through the scriptures. If a subject is serious enough that we think a person's soul may be at risk, I think both grace and patience are in order, both here in the discussion and with the dear believer in question.

And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. (2 Tim. 2)

Can you provide specifics? I would agree with the others. Are we not all lazy in some aspect? Does that threaten our security? Scripture speaks to a fallen world with fallen men. Our appeal will be to a relationship with Christ first. With Christ first then laziness or whatever condition that may be hindering one is truly a ground of conviction where the Spirit will do His work. Yes even using man as the means, if by scripture he has come in love first checking his own condition.

Do we however lay abortion, stealing, apathy, adultery, ..........at the feet of one who is lazy? Might not these be a clue of a fallen state when they are made a lifestyle? Even at that there are those who do a great many things that are still destined for the eternal flames because they do not know God. I have yet to be concerned that anyone is lazy. I am desperately concerned that many who profess Christ do not know Him! It would be a crime to consider that a deficiency would it not? A close personal relationship with a brother brings an atmosphere for growth even in the hard things that would that make us uncomfortable. However the world is dying. One could look at the church and say it is laziness. If that be the case let us not concern ourselves with eternity which is the concern of our Great God Jesus Christ and rather learn a greater productivity from Donald Trump.

If we set about trying to motivate the dead, we will only get Zombies!

Mr Robert,

Please tell me how you would interpret this portion of scripture: Mat 25:26

His lord answered and said unto him, [Thou] wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

Please keep the context in mind because this servant eventually is sent to hell. Also, also keep in mind that many commentators (and sermons) reveal that this text is to show how those that are false professors will be cast in the lake of fire for their slothfulness. I await your response.

"Please keep the context in mind because this servant eventually is sent to hell. Also, also keep in mind that many commentators (and sermons) reveal that this text is to show how those that are false professors will be cast in the lake of fire for their slothfulness. I await your response."

The Context is the Justified master casting correct judgment on his wicked servatn. Tell me are you the master that has the right to judge?

No the parable is about the Work Christ has eloted to us as individuals, God has given you a work and different amounts of work some receive some receive 5 bags, some receive 2, some receive just one, God justly distributes and justly judges the work done.

Notice we are not to judge our brothers and sisters because they appear to do less that we do, why? because that very well could be the amount of work the Lord has given them. Its again on an individual basis between God and the individual. If we are each following as the Lord leads this will hardly be an issue and we won't have to worry about judging who is saved or not based on each others laziness. Again Christ is the Master and Judge not anyone of us, we have no say in who is saved or not especially based off of works we do.

Ok. Fair enough. Lets take a look at Matthew 25:26:

His lord answered and said unto him, [Thou] wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

Our word here for slothful is ὀκνηρός (root okneō) carries the idea of being slow or hesitant. I am inclined to see the behavior, by his own admission, as unbelief.

And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, [there] thou hast [that is] thine. (Matthew 25:25)

I think the context here dictates that phobeo (afraid) carries the meaning of fearing to do something or to hesitate. I don't see this as a general laziness as much as it is indecision. We cannot say it is general slothfulness because the man expended the energies to bury and then unbury his 'talent'. Rather, and I concur with Trench, that it is a preoccupation with ones own spirituality (salt) and has no time to go out and be salt and light in this world. In other words, I only ever had time to look after my own needs and not to the needs of the souls of others that is in view IMHO. The man was busy about working and not lazy in the 21st century sense, but was selfish with what was entrusted to him, that is, his own life. He kept it safe and secure and gave it back to Christ at His return. But this is not the stewardship God has called us to. Obsessive concern for personal spirituality- to the neglect of the souls of others- can actually lead to this condition. We have to be careful.

No doubt a servant is proven by his work. He can claim to serve the master but does he? I would like to appeal however, to the why and not the how. Why does one not share the light given them unless they do not have it to begin with. If this is about faulty execution or failure to execute then none of us can live up to such a standard.

I'm no greek specialist but i believe my bible's notes claim that the greek for the 'cast out into outer darkness' here is different than in other passages. Any thoughts? I'll check on it when i get a chance.

warriorofgod,

YOU and your preaching are not going to change people, the Holy Ghost is going to change people, period. You need to be taking this prideful argument against these people to the Holy Spirit.

Brother, I say this with all love towards you as a brother in Christ... Have you heard of the new term that's been coined called "humblebragging" or "humblebrag"? "The art of tooting your own horn without BLOWING IT!!" That sure sounds like what your original post is doing... bragging how holy (or not lazy, I should say), while humbly trying to get all these underachievers caught up to where you obviously live everyday of your life!!

And I'm not pointing something out in you that I am not guilty of myself... I am guilty of humblebragging; it's a challenge to see the truth when someone else points that out in you.

Finally brother, the love of Jesus in us is patient and is kind toward those who are not where we are. When the Spirit of the Lord convicts someone, they are not beaten down ready to give up from even trying.

Why cannot more Christians just love one another in SPITE of their failings and shortcomings and let the Lord convict them??? Why???

Your friend in Christ,
Lisa

Robert,

Is there anyway I can call you? I know thismay be a pretty bold request, but I am still being misunderstood in this thread and am trying to get out of the cross fire pronto. If not, that's ok. God Bless.