Train Up A Child...

Proverbs 22:6 says, Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

I would like to hear some input on this verse. I used to think I had it all figured out, but in the last few years, I've been forced to take another look at it. I used to think that if you train your child "in the way he should go," then by the time he's on his own (or "when he is old"), he'll be a sure-fire Christian, living right, talking right, and walking right, in the way of the Lord. I haven't totally forsaken that notion, but I've reconsidered this and realized it doesn't say that he will be converted, necessarily, but that he'll continue in "the way" you taught him (could this mean he won't go into gross sin and utter wickedness). One friend said, "You know, I've seen good, godly homes with rebels and ungodly homes with upright youth...it just blows my mind. It's the strangest thing that I just can't make any sense out of at all." To me, that's a sad predicament.

Especially uncomforted is the young person just starting out with dreams and visions of a godly home, but all these ideas are floating around still. That's why I wanted to hear your comments. I know God hasn't given us the spirit of fear, but it can sure make one uneasy who's just starting out.

I know of some who tenaciously cling to this verse saying, this is what God said, so, no matter what sin my child has gone into, I know he'll come around. I don't try to dash their hope at all, by the way. [EDIT - However, I've had to come to terms with the fact that a young person HAS TO CHOOSE either righteousness or unrighteousness, Christ or the world, and so on.]

But others hold to a different tune, explaining that we must remember that this verse is a PROVERB, and not a PROMISE. But to me, that is an affront to God. God's words are forever! They're not just nice suggestions or beautiful poetry- they're GOD'S WORDS!

I also realize that maybe it's a matter of truly "training up a child in the way he should go." But then I think that when God said that, he wasn't referring to perfect parents with perfect parenting skills, but to men and women who feared, loved and served Him. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

I would appreciate the thoughts of others on this matter...and I wanted to thank you in advance for taking time for this.

rusaved1

rusaved1: Having raised two boys and being in education for a number of years, I have thought a lot about this verse. At one time I did take it as a promise that said, "If you raise your children in a genuine Christian home then they will continue to walk in that way." But as I have studied this verse and others that relate to parenting, I have come to the conclusion that to assign such meaning is to go beyond the context of the proverb.

Train up is used most often to speak of dedication much as we would dedicate a building to a particular purpose. There is a great sense of purpose in the term and a particular singleness of intent. As my boys were raised up I felt it vitally important to instill in them a strong sense of hard work. I knew that this goal was one that would serve them well in their life. So I was very diligent and had a singleness of purpose in instilling in them this quality. As a result they are now both walking in the way of diligence in their attitude toward hard work and it is serving them well in many aspects of their lives.

There is nothing in the context of the proverb that I can see that would assign this principle to the decision of a child to follow Christ in his or her adult life. However I do believe that if we are consistent in our own lives where our relationship with God is concerned and seek Him with all we have and if at the same time we are diligent about teaching and training our children we can have great influence on them where their decision to follow Christ is concerned.

A777, Wow. I never saw those distinctions laid out so clearly before. And I didn't realize the detriment of some of the authoritarian ideas until I saw what the flip-side was. So much to ponder still... The idea of how God raises us definitely got my attention-I wish to study that more! Thanks and God bless!

Good points, twayneb. I can see where you're coming from and it's what I'm now leaning towards although it's a marked turnaround from my previous thinking. Yes, I totally agree with the idea of instilling a strong work ethic. Is the general consensus here that this passage does not deal with spiritual matters, matters of the heart, only with practical, perhaps moral, issues? What about relationships and heart issues, the nitty-gritty things we deal with every day? Just wondering if you're talking about anything specifically...

My point is that I see so many youth who do work well and have good morale but their heart is so far from either their father, their mother, their siblings, and so forth--ultimately far from God, even though they think they're fine there. Their parents must have lost their heart along the way, if they had it.

However I do believe that if we are consistent in our own lives where our relationship with God is concerned and seek Him with all we have and if at the same time we are diligent about teaching and training our children we can have great influence on them where their decision to follow Christ is concerned.

True, I have seen this in so many cases. Then again, I've seen even recently many others who somehow turn blind to that and go off on their own way. I'm not questioning God's promise here, I'm just searching out to what extent it was given. Is there a reason, I wonder. This is a matter where I've always had nothing to say to those asking "Where did we go wrong?" except to pray with them that GOD would turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to their fathers.

Thanks for your comments...I look forward to more of them!

I'd like to attempt to address this, "I used to think that if you train your child "in the way he should go," then by the time he's on his own (or "when he is old"), he'll be a sure-fire Christian, living right, talking right, and walking right, in the way of the Lord. I haven't totally forsaken that notion, but I've reconsidered this and realized it doesn't say that he will be converted, necessarily, but that he'll continue in "the way" you taught him (could this mean he won't go into gross sin and utter wickedness)",in light of Proverbs 22:6 in my first post.

And then attempt to briefly address this, "One friend said, "You know, I've seen good, godly homes with rebels and ungodly homes with upright youth...it just blows my mind. It's the strangest thing that I just can't make any sense out of at all", in my second post.

Proverbs 22:6 says, Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. KJV

Firstly, note that there are no words in the Hebrew for "should go".

Most literally the Hebrew says, "Train a child according to his way; even though he become older he will not turn aside from it."

Geneva Bible says, Proverbs 22:6 Teache a childe in the trade of his way, and when he is olde, he shall not depart from it.

Another poster correctly stated that the word "train" is used elsewhere of dedicating. See Deut. 20:5 ; 1 Kings 8:63 ; 2 Chron.7:5 ; Numbers 7:10,11 ; Nehemiah 12:27.

Some Hebrew dictionaries such as the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, and the Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, suggest that a better meaning for the word "train" in this text would be "begin", or "inaugurate" and that there is little warrant for translating it "train".

The traditional translation is an interpretation. It adds some words and ideas that are not in the Hebrew text.and understood in this way the verse is a promise.

I'd differ with the traditional translation and interpretation as the book of Proverbs is a collection of instructions and observations on life intended to offer practical guidance, not a collection of pronouncements by God in which he gives eternal promises.

Proverbs 1:1-6 The proverbs of Solomon son of David, king of Israel: To know wisdom and discipline, To comprehend sayings of understanding, To procure the discipline to act intelligently in justice and judgment and equities,to give to the simple, prudence, to youth, knowledge and foresight. The wise one may also hear and add to his education, and the man of understanding may acquire skills. To understand proverb and puzzle,the words of the wise and their enigmas.

Even with the best of discipline sons can be wise or foolish (see Proverbs 10:1,5; 13:1,13,18; 17:21,25; 19:26). Proverbs 22:6 interpreted as a promise contradicts all the above passages.

Also, note how the the word "way" is used in Proverbs.

"There is a way that seems right to man, but the end is death" (14:12; 16:25).

The way of the fool seems right to him (12:15) and the way of the wicked leads them astray (12:26).

On the contrary the way to life is through discipline and in keeping the way of the instructor (16:17; 6:23; 8:32).

A man plans his own ways and they may seem right but the Lord weighs the heart (16:9; 21:2).

In consideration of the above verses "his way" in 22:6 should be understood as the way that seems right to the child, the way that he plans, the way that he follows, ignoring instruction.

The traditional translation imports a moral tone to "way."

The word "way" is used with moral nuances in Proverbs but always with a moral qualifier such as "good","righteous", or "evil". So it doesn't seem proper for it to have a moral tone in 22:6.

Accordingly then,we are to understand Prov. 22:6, not as a promise from God for the life long faithfulness of our children, but as a warning. If we allow the child to follow his own inclinations and do not apply discipline and instruction he will turn out to be a selfish adult, following his way which he thinks is right, but which is the way to death.

Proverbs 22:6 "Dedicate (begin) a child to (on) his way, and when/even as he grows old he will not depart from it."

Proverbs 22:6 is a general Proverb. There are proverbs that are absolute and allow no exception, such as Proverbs 6:32,33.

Proverbs 22:6 falls into the same category as Proverbs 18:22, "Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the Lord." Proverbs 18:22 is often true, but who will deny that this is not always the case. Else we'd have to omit proverbs such as 21:9.

Proverbs 22:6 is not meant to be understood as an absolute statement, or a promise containing no exceptions to the rule. To do so would make not only the Proverbs but the Scriptures as a whole an ineludible biblical contradiction.

Extreme views such as the traditional interpretation of Proverbs 22:6 add to the hurt already experienced by grieving parents, as well as breed judgementalism,legalism and pride in many parents who have children who are well-behaved and seem to be serving the LORD. This attitude may also cause great schism in the body.

It may be you have heard the cry of many,as I have,with this charge, "if the children do not turn out to be Christians, it is the parent's fault, they have failed!"

Such error heaps guilt and condemnation on parents who very well know that they're anything but perfect.

May these words above be helpful to some...and...

May our God of all Grace help us all.

Training up a child...

Often, we forget that we teach our children by the way that we live our lives, much more than what we say.

For example, I can tell my child that he should put God first, but if my son notices that I am always thinking about sports and watching TV rather than seeking the advancement of the kingdom of God, I am really teaching my child to seek worldly passions.

We should examine our lives, and ask ourselves, "What am I teaching my children or my neighbors, by my actions?"

My point is that I see so many youth who do work well and have good morale but their heart is so far from either their father, their mother, their siblings, and so forth--ultimately far from God, even though they think they're fine there. Their parents must have lost their heart along the way, if they had it.

When I was younger, in the days before I had children of my own, I could be found saying, "Well if the parents would just follow this scripture 'train of a child...' then they would not have the problems that they are having." I was really quite sure I could tell you how to produce Godly children. We adopted two boys, 10 and 12 at the time, and I set out to fulfill the way I had previously viewed parenting. I must say that there were some things that I had absolutely right, and there were some things that I had a wrong as can be.

Savannah makes a good point in saying that a wrong interpretation of the proverbs passage can lead to some real struggles in the heart of a parent that do not necessarily need to be there. At times I have struggled with the role of a parent in raising Godly children and the free will of children in choosing whether or not they are going to follow God. A wrong interpretation of the proverbs passage leads us to believe that if our children do not turn out right then it is all our fault and we have failed in our duty as a parent. But a fatalistic view of the situation, one that says the parents can do all they will with absolutely no guarantees, is wrong as well.

I did my best to allow them to accompany me on my walk with God. They could see that I was absolutely serious about my relationship with God and that I did not allow compromise in my own life. When I needed to repent to God I allowed them in many cases to see me do that. I was always quick to repent to them and ask forgiveness when I wronged them, which was more often than I would have liked.

I was very intentional about forming and maintaining relationship with my boys. When we adopted them I gave up a good stipend that I was earning teaching a night class at a local college. I felt it important that I be there each night to spend time with them. We worked and played together all of the time.

I was diligent about discipline. We used a ritual of discipline that dispensed the consequences and ultimately led to repentance toward God and man and the receiving of forgiveness in a very real way that absolved them of further guilt or shame over the matter. The 20 or 30 minutes of time after the discipline were often some of the most sweet with the boys. We often sat around laughing and talking after the discipline was over. Love was absolute and right relationship was restored. What a great time to fellowship with them. I sometimes heard them brag to friends about Dad's paddle and how much it hurt. It was a real source of pride to them. It was one way they knew they were loved.

Yet in all of these things we went through some heart wrenching times with our boys. One of them left home to go to college. He chose a school in TX simply because it was far from home. He simply decided that he wanted to live life totally on his own terms and Mom and Dad stood in the way of that. For a time our other son lied to us and pretended to have relationship with us. All the while he was planning on dropping out of school and running away from home to do his own thing.

We cannot insulate our children against Satan's devices. He will tempt them in so many ways. In these times we spent a great deal of time on our knees asking for wisdom and strength. God came through on both accounts and the way in which these situations were resolved is nothing short of miraculous.

My younger son is now a youth pastor at a local church with a burning passion to reach out to youth in trouble. My elder son is a CNA at a local hospital, and is happily married. Our relationship with our children is absolutely fantastic. Recently I got rid of the paddle. I was soundly condemned by my boys for doing so and told that had they had both wanted to keep it. Amazingly it stood out in their minds as a symbol of love. Go figure!

My point in all of this is to say that God desires us to be diligent in training and raising our children by the principles that He set forth in His word. We know that ultimately each child will have to make the decision to follow Christ or to reject Him. We are not responsible for their choice, but we can have great influence on that choice.

The consequences for poor parenting though can be dire. And I have found that poor parenting is as much a function of the degree to which the parents are surrendered to God as it is of any other factors.

"One friend said, "You know, I've seen good, godly homes with rebels and ungodly homes with upright youth...it just blows my mind. It's the strangest thing that I just can't make any sense out of at all."

I'd like to attempt to address the above.

To begin I'd turn your attention to Luke. In the third chapter and twenty third verse we find Luke giving us the geneology of Jesus. Following this geneology of the many names recorded we come to the end of the chapter in verse 38 where we read these words,

"Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God."

Many who espouse the false teaching promoted by some professing christians regarding that parents[fathers especially]are always to be blamed for their sons[children]wayward behavior and estrangement,cannot escape incurring God with guilt, as Adam rebelled in a paradise,and all His[God's] children do as well,to one degree or another.

But we know that none would dare say that God is guilty,with their tongues. Yet their theology betrays them at the foundation.

God is a Father with a family. The children of God often stray,sin, and rebel. God as Father disciplines His own for their good,and none of His own ever perish.

This truth alone ought to stop the mouths of legalists and moralists who insist that parents[fathers] are always to blame for wayward/troubled sons[children].

But let us go on to completion, having already laid the foundation which alone stands sure,sealed with His recorded words in Luke.

We know God is Perfect and is a Perfect Father. Such cannot be said of any of us parents[fathers]. Even Adam and his wife Eve were not perfect parents. And they surely would have had less externally bad influences around them to lead them astray. And their children would have had less peer pressure and externally bad influences as well I'd think.

Yet we find Cain murdering his brother Abel. The first murderer was from the first human parents. I am certain,as sinful parents,they failed in their parenting at some point. But according to some modern teachers in evangelical circles,and those who have espoused this false belief system,Adam and Eve would be, and must have been, horrible parents as well as bad examples insofar as living to please and follow God.

As imperfect as Adam and Eve were, I'd GUESS that they were PROBABLY better parents than most christians today are. MAYBE YOU ARE seeing my point...MAYBE NOT!

May we now proceed to advance further along,peradventure God may grant us progress in this matter.

Psalm 127:1-5 A Song of degrees for Solomon. Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain. It is vain for you to rise up early, to sit up late, to eat the bread of sorrows: for so he giveth his beloved sleep. Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward. As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth. Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

With His Word above as our lamp and light may wisdom teach us in the way.

As much as I believe(and I do believe very much)that parents have been given a major role in the lives of their children,and the Scriptures exhort,instruct,encourage and command parents to be good examples to their children,as well as to teach their children to be and do the same, children are simply not,only a product of parental influence. The Scriptures certainly bear this out.

To the Word and to the Testimony we now turn.

2 Kings 18:1-7 Now it came to pass in the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign. Twenty and five years old was he when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and nine years in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Abi, the daughter of Zachariah. And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did. He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan. He trusted in the LORD God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor any that were before him. For he clave to the LORD, and departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses. And the LORD was with him; and he prospered whithersoever he went forth: and he rebelled against the king of Assyria, and served him not.

WOW! What a testimony to Hezekiah from God's Word. But who's son was he? He must have had a good and godly father for an example you'd think! No! The complete opposite is true. In verse 1 we read that King Ahaz was his father,"...Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah..."

And just who was King Ahaz?

2 Kings 16:1-4 In the seventeenth year of Pekah the son of Remaliah Ahaz the son of Jotham king of Judah began to reign. Twenty years old was Ahaz when he began to reign, and reigned sixteen years in Jerusalem, and did not that which was right in the sight of the LORD his God, like David his father. But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, yea, and made his son to pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel.
And he sacrificed and burnt incense in the high places, and on the hills, and under every green tree.

Ahaz commited much evil in those sixteen years but apparently his son Hezekiah escaped somehow from such a bad example and bad teaching of his father.

As for Ahaz,he must have had a bad role model as a father you'd think! No! The very opposite is true! In verse 1 above we read,"...Ahaz the son of Jotham king of Judah..."

Just who was Jotham!

2 Kings 15:32-34 In the second year of Pekah the son of Remaliah king of Israel began Jotham the son of Uzziah king of Judah to reign. Five and twenty years old was he when he began to reign, and he reigned sixteen years in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Jerusha, the daughter of Zadok. And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD: he did according to all that his father Uzziah had done.

We read above of Hezekiah's godly testimony. Hezekiah's son must have certainly followed his father's example and teaching. Hezekiah's son was none other than the infamously wicked Mannasseh.

2 Kings 21:1-7 Manasseh was twelve years old when he began to reign, and reigned fifty and five years in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Hephzibah. And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, after the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out before the children of Israel. For he built up again the high places which Hezekiah his father had destroyed; and he reared up altars for Baal, and made a grove, as did Ahab king of Israel; and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them. And he built altars in the house of the LORD, of which the LORD said, In Jerusalem will I put my name.
And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD. And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger. And he set a graven image of the grove that he had made in the house, of which the LORD said to David, and to Solomon his son, In this house, and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all tribes of Israel, will I put my name for ever.

Now Manasseh had a son named Amnon who did follow in his father's footsteps and do evil. Yet,once again we find a godly son born and raised by a wicked father. Amnon had a son named Josiah, who not only had a wicked father but a wicked grandfather[Manasseh] as well.

We read of Josiah,

2 Kings 22:1-2 Josiah was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned thirty and one years in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Jedidah, the daughter of Adaiah of Boscath. And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, and walked in all the way of David his father, and turned not aside to the right hand or to the left.

Samuel the prophet had two wicked sons,Joel and Abijah.

1 Samuel 8:1-3 And it came to pass, when Samuel was old, that he made his sons judges over Israel. Now the name of his firstborn was Joel; and the name of his second, Abiah: they were judges in Beersheba. And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment.

Yet,we find Samuel's name unmarred and in the Hebrews hall of faith chapter 11:32 along with those beloved of God.

Hebrews 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets.

1 Kings 15:9-14 And in the twentieth year of Jeroboam king of Israel reigned Asa over Judah. And forty and one years reigned he in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Maachah, the daughter of Abishalom. And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.
And also Maachah his mother, even her he removed from being queen, because she had made an idol in a grove; and Asa destroyed her idol, and burnt it by the brook Kidron.
But the high places were not removed: nevertheless Asa's heart was perfect with the LORD all his days.

Who was Asa's father? Abijam was his father. Of him we read.

1 Kings 15:1 Now in the eighteenth year of king Jeroboam the son of Nebat reigned Abijam over Judah. Three years reigned he in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Maachah, the daughter of Abishalom. And he walked in all the sins of his father, which he had done before him: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father.

2 Chronicles 13:21 But Abijam waxed mighty, and married fourteen wives, and begat twenty and two sons, and sixteen daughters.

1 Kings 15:8 And Abijam slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead.

These are a choice few of some of the examples found in God's record He has left us for our admonition. This list of comparisons is by no means exhaustive. Such was not my intention. It is merely, to hopefully remove condemnation from some where this condemnation ought not to be, but has been heaped upon them by legalists and perfectionists. It is also in hopes to shut the mouths of some who spew out this graceless junk, as they see the error of their way and repent in dust and ashes for offending His little flock.

Truth be told,there are more ungodly sons of godly fathers mentioned in the Bible than godly sons of ungodly fathers.

May we all take heed how we hear. Whether proverb,precept, promise or other.

Bless God all ye His saints.

Fathers and Mothers do play a significant role in the life of a child. It has been medically proven that Talents are not a genetic passing but a learned thing. How do we see talents pass from one parent to the child? The child grows up around that passion and in time it becomes theirs and they seem to pick it up quite naturally, why? because they found practice really does make perfect, requiring 10,000 hours of dedicated practice to be an expert in that particular field.

Here is the kicker, we have the free choice to follow our parents lead. We not only have to factor in the parents but also friends and other social influences. As one reaches the teenage years it has been statistically shown teens began to listen more to their adolesent friends than they do their parents or even just adults period, As we see in 2 Chronicles 10:8

"8 But Rehoboam rejected the advice the elders gave him and consulted the young men who had grown up with him and were serving him."

Train your child up the teaching them the way of the Lord and you will be judged by what you did not by what they ultimately decide to do. With Christ Jesus and the New Covenant each is responsible for their own sins personally when Chrst drank the galled wine he took the generational curse with Him on the Cross. The 'sour grapes' of my father's are not my own,

Jeremiah 31:29 "“In those days people will no longer say, ‘The parents have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge. 30 Instead, everyone will die for their own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—their own teeth will be set on edge."

In the end it looks as if you have answered your own questions. God doesn't need great men and women to do great exploits. He only needs obediant men and women, then the task itself makes us great.
Joshua 1:8 Do not let this book of the law depart from your mouth but meditate on it day and night so that you will be carefull to do everything that is written in it. then you will be prosperous and successfull.
The same theme over and over thruout the Holly Scriptures is telling us to study the Holly Scriptures...this is your daily bread... chew it over. Then I beleive that the fire of the Holly Spirit withen you and me will lead us to discernment.
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.
God bless you

I probably won't be around much this week but I wanted to thank you for all you've commented. I generally agree with what you've all said, although I would rather question my interpretation of the verse rather than what it says. I believe God has preserved His words in this case also. I don't mean to go off on a tangent here, however. Also, personal testimonies do go a long way, by the way, so thanks for sharing them!

Forgive my briefness here; I'm just pressed for time.

In the mean while, God be with you all!

rusaved1