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Camping's Dismissal of Churches Questioned by Christians

sermonindex May 26, 2011


Even as Harold Camping announced that the final spiritual judgment of the world began on May 21, he reaffirmed his belief that God passed judgment on organized churches more than two decades ago.

Camping, 89, first announced the “end of the church age” in 2002, claiming that God was no longer working through churches because of their apostasy. According to Camping, the conclusion of the “church age” came on May 21, 1988.

“Evidence was seen ever since,” Camping said Monday in his first public address after the unrealized doomsday. “If we take a snap shot of churches 50 years ago, and of our day, it’s entirely different. They have far less respect for the world, far different views on marriage and music.” ...

read more: http://www.christianpost.com/news/campings-dismissal-of-churches-questioned-by-christians-50512/

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ChrisJD May 27, 2011

I remember several years ago hearing a man rebuking Mr. Camping's assult upon the Church during his call in radio program. I never forgot the verse that he applied to him as he rebuked him, it was from the book of Zechariah:


"In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness"

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Areadymind May 27, 2011

How did he apply that specifically Chris?

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sonsigns May 27, 2011

Good for that man. It really breaks my heart that the church hasn't rebuked Mr.Camping publicly. He needs it. Christians need to stop supporting his ministry. That will turn the valve off to his many lies.

Scripture: Jeremiah 5:31, 14:14 and 23:25

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ChrisJD May 28, 2011

"How did he apply that specifically"


I'm sorry I did not get back to respond sooner.


As I recall it, he suggested that just as God said He would fight against those who assaulted physical Jersusalem in that passage, He would also fight against those who assault spiritual Jersusalem, the Chruch(Galatians 4:25-26).

Just as horse and rider were smitten with blindness and maddness in that passage, he said it was happening to Camping just the same, for his assault on the Church.

This was perhaps 6 or 7 years ago.

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Areadymind May 28, 2011

No problem Chris. Thank you for replying.

sermonindex May 28, 2011

Even tho many have now finally come out publicly to rebuke Harold Camping it's amazing to me that very little has been said previous to all of this. It's the same problem with Rob Bell... he's been teaching his heresies for well over 12 or 13 years and only a handful of men have sounded a warning. John MacArthur was one of them, but he went largely ignored. Now all of a sudden evangelicalism is "shocked" at Bells teachings.

We need men with backbone who will take a stand for truth! Men who will rebuke a man when he needs it, not to shame another man publicly but rather to bring correction so that the man who is in error can know and understand the truth.

Krispy

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KingJimmy May 28, 2011

We have some brethren here on Sermon Index who aren't too far removed from Camping's views of the church. They cry for us to come out of her and be separate too, and declare Ichabod over the churches of our land. They have little to no fellowship with any local body of believers, and their fellowship consists of Sermon Index and the various conferences they visit.

sermonindex May 29, 2011

KJ... I used to be like that to some extent. We house churched for a long long time, and I did not ever declare we dont need fellowship. But I did rail against "institutional" churches.

Recently (within the past year) we found a wonderful "regular" church that we joined. It's a unique church and we love it. It's family to us.

I agree with calling people out of apostate churches, but we err when we stereotype all churches and walk away from fellowship and community all together. In most cases I think it's spiritual arrogance that causes a man to do that, not really conviction. I know... been there, done that.

(There is nothing wrong with house churching if it is done according to the Biblical guidelines for church government)

Krispy

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mguldner May 29, 2011

"In most cases I think it's spiritual arrogance that causes a man to do that, not really conviction. I know... been there, done that.

(There is nothing wrong with house churching if it is done according to the Biblical guidelines for church government)"

Don't forget Spiritual Bitterness, or at least that is what it was about for me. I had been jaded by the "institution" all others were likely to be the same and thus a farce. I wanted so badly to start my own home church but it didn't pan out because my attitude was terribly unbalanced from bitterness. My thoughts and focus was "be better than them" rather than Give Glory of Christ Jesus.

I too found a nice "regular" church and have enjoyed my time there for the most part other than the usual hyper religious people that try and make me "become a member" (not the pastor). Ultimately what we all need to remember is we are a Univerisal(Catholic) Body of Believers whether we are in a home or in an institution.

sermonindex May 29, 2011

Yea, bitterness plays into it too. Looking back on it in retrospect I can say that my experience was that I have rarely ever been in a house church environment where there wasn't some sort of bashing of "institutional" churches, or looking down the nose at them. Generally there was an "us against them" mentality.

Someone is bound to jump in here and disagree with me, but please keep in mind that this is MY experience. If someone else has had a different experience that was way better... I accept that. And not all of my experiences in the house church movement were that way! There were a lot of good and deeply spiritual things that happened too.

Anyway, I agree that "church membership" as we know it in most churches today is not found in the Bible persay. However, that does not make it sinful or wrong either. I think that is between the believer and the Lord. God will lead each one of us.

As for me and mine, the Lord led us to a "regular" church that immediately became family to us. Our pastor is one of the best Bible teachers I've ever been around. If someone shows an interest in learning more and more about the Bible he will bend over backwards to help that person... but understandably he will limit how much time and energy he will invest into someone who is not a "member". That makes sense to me.

Joining this church was as natural as anything we've ever done.

I told you guys when I came back to SI the other day... Krispy: New and Improved! lol...

God's been working in me more than ever before.

Krispy

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mguldner May 29, 2011

Oh agree with you 100%, I have had similar experience but its definitely not the rule. I would say talking with the pastor at the church I attend now has helped greatly with my bitterness because he was able to show me "Hey we're not all the same."

Also I agree that church membership isn't sinful but between You and God, if the Holy Spirit says yes then go for it. As of now I haven't felt that conviction nor do I think I ever will, but its good to know that I won't have my arm wrenched out of place if I refuse membership.

Something that always seems to be a sore spot is the "praise and worship" Its like the war department of every church lol I am actually leading worship today as a fill in because the majority of the worship team is gone this Sunday. I really love leading worship and the Lord has given me tough skin when it comes to critics and complainers, though I am still "newish" to some of the people so I believe I will be received graciously. I am going to have an opportunity to preach this summer and the topic of choice is "A Heart of Worship" read out of 2nd Sam 6.

I think this is the first time I have ever had a supportive pastor that wasn't looking to exploit me in some way and it has been quite refreshing. I meet with him every other Monday and we have been working on bible study practices, one area I am seriously working on is the Application part because Observation and Interpretation seem to come easier for me but Applying it to life seems tough.

sermonindex May 29, 2011

Music in the church has always been sticky! We have a band, but our worship is a good mix of hymns and modern... and our pastor reviews each song for lyric content. If the lyrics are not 100% Biblically accurate it doesnt get sung in our church. Especially no "Jesus Is My Girlfriend" songs. There is meat even in our singing.

Our pastor is also a football coach (part of what attracted me to his style)... so talk about thick skin!

The sound volume is nearly perfect, not overbearing at all, and the style is generally conservative. No jumping around or concert feel. Very reverent in fact.

I think application is the tough part for any believer, brother. I struggle with it too, you are not alone.

Krispy

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ChrisJD May 29, 2011

Harold Camping was opposed, corrected, and rebuked for his teachings by numerous Christians over the years during his radio call-in show 'Open forum". The was never any lack, so far as I could tell, of people willing to openly and publicly confront Mr. Camping, and that to his face(so-to-speak). And rightly so. But his destructive teachings continued in-spite of it, not in the absence of it, and his call-in radio program could in one sense be described as a venue for Christian controversy where Harold Camping was always able to have the final say in exercising his control over the air-waves, and the mic. Two out of the three people that I personally confronted more than once over spreading Camping's teachings on the street I saw out spreading them right up until the end.

Perhaps as few as two or three days after Mr. Camping's failed prediction I saw his now televised version of open-forum, and a man was once again contending with him over his teachings about the Bible.

He was eventually cut-off from the mic, and Mr. Camping was left the with final word of correction for his audience.

One powerfull remedy for this has already been suggested: that more and more people would cut-off the money they had been giving him. There can be no doubt now that to continue to fund him in any way is to be complicit with something destructive in the extreme, regardless of the rest of his radio content, good or bad.

It may be that false teaching will continue and grow worse until the end of time. It may be that there will never be any shortage of people willing and eager or lured and tricked into speaking for themselves instead of being sent by God and given a mouth to speak.

In the meantime, sound teaching and pure light is what is useful and nescessary in the midst of confusion and darkness. So God's people can hear Him to follow Him, and keep walking with Him on the way home.

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