Storms Expose the Character of Man

Tuesday I went to Tuscaloosa, AL to do some business at Northport. While I waited, I drove around the city to check out the damage inflicted upon it on April 27 by a EF5 tornado.

In my lifetime I have seen lots of tornado damage - we live in tornado alley - but I was not prepared emotionally what I saw. The damage was so vast, so huge. There were blocks of buildings shattered and many blocks of houses severely damaged. Dump trucks were running constantly carrying debris to a landfill.

A few blocks away "Samaritan's Purse" had set their disaster units/rigs.

A local was informing me of the scam artists active in the area, scamming victims: insurance settled with homeowners, scammers asked these people how much insurance paid them and informed them they can build them a house for that much money and after getting their money, they disappeared. Truck loads of goods arrived in the city to be distributed to its victims. Others who were not effected by the storm carted away lots of goods. Looting was so bad the National Guard was called in to police the area.

After seeing all this destruction and hearing these stories, I felt sick - it killed all motivation to go shopping there.

And this city is in the heart of the Bible belt of the USA.
I cannot help but compare this report with what was said of Japan when the tsunami hit: looting was no problem. Their mindset is that if it ain't yours you leave it.

What I saw and heard illustrated perfectly the truth of Ecclesiastes 3:18 NASB: I said to myself concerning the sons of men, “God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts.”

A local was informing me of the injuries inflicted upon the tornado victims. She said the hospital is full with these people.

I never have heard of this injury: the wind pulled the muscle away from the bone! She said it is a very painful injury, requiring lots of therapy. And I believe it.

Wonder how long it will be until one hears stories of God's saving grace brought about by this storm. It may be only a few, but in God's sight this affliction would have been worth it. Do we understand this point of God's economy? Consider that herd of hogs that ran over the cliff after Jesus healed the man possessed by demons...

Obviously, God's economy differs from man's...

Dear Ginny,

Thank you for this post. The scamming - another 'sign of the times.' A new injury, 'wind pulled muscle,' I don't even want to imagine what went on to get that injury.

I can easily imagine how wonderful it felt to get back home. How blessed it is to live in tornado alley and have no damage. The season is not over, I will continue to pray for you & yours.

white stone

It is always when men are tried that their true character comes out. We have had some cases of looting in Joplin, but it is not wide-spread. We have had many more instances where people have sacrificed to meet the needs of the hurting. So much so that it has baffled many of the people who are really seeing this part of the midwest for the first time. There are those who are taking advantage of the storm relief organizations for their own greed. I have heard a story already of people from a neighboring town who have bragged about getting supplied daily from the relief organizations.

While it is true that each individual's eternal destiny will be determined by whether they are born again or not, there is also a general societal impact that Christianity has on a commmunity. I am blessed to say that Joplin in behind the curve in rejecting this influence, but I know the situation is worsening all the time.

There are those who are coming to Christ as a result of the storm. Although I firmly believe God did NOT bring this storm, yet He is working great good for His kingdom in the lives of men and women as a result of this storm. Continue to pray for Joplin.

Although I firmly believe God did NOT bring this storm, yet He is working great good for His kingdom in the lives of men and women as a result of this storm.

Amos 1:13 For, lo, he that formeth the mountains, and createth the wind, and declareth unto man what is his thought, that maketh the morning darkness, and treadeth upon the high places of the earth, The LORD, The God of hosts, is his name.

Matthew Henry Commentary: He creates the wind. The power of the air is derived from him, and directed by him; he brings the wind out of his treasures, and orders from what point of the compass it shall blow; and he that made it rules it; even the winds and the seas obey him.

twayneb,

Joplin is in my prayers. Please explain to me how you can choose to disregard what The Lord, The God of Hosts has to say? Is there anything or anyone that can act outside of His will? No, not one.

Not only do I pray for Joplin but for all the Saints and all who will become Saints through Faith in His Holy Child Jesus.

You must not know how painful it is to me to see His word disregarded. If it is so to me, I shudder to think of how He feels. How can you bring souls to Christ if you are turning your eye from God's own word? This is life and death work you are able to do. For my part I can only sit here in my home and pray, you have the great opportunity to work on the front line. I will pray for you.

white stone

White-Stone:

I know there are many who think that any event that happens on this earth originates in the will of God. I think that to say so is to stretch scripture beyond what it says.

Amos makes a statement that God created the wind as well as the rest of the earth. The statement is not meant by the prophet to say that every wind is controlled by God, but rather to state the majesty and supremacy of the God with whom Israel, who should have known better, was trifling.

God does at times control weather as we can see many instances in the old testament as well as Jesus rebuking the wind and bringing calm in the New Testament. But the fact that a writer would point out specifically that the wind was controlled by God in one instance is evidence that the particular instance is a departure from the norm. God established weather patterns on this earth. The judgment of the flood was cataclysmic on a scale unfathomable to our minds. Weather has never been the same. It is unpredictable and violent storms occur because of the result of sin and the judgment of the flood on the earth.

There is coming a day when the judgments we read about in the Revelation will come upon this earth and some of those judgments include weather. Those judgments will be from God and it will be His righteousness and justice to do so.

I would like you to consider Act 17:30-31

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: (31) Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

There is a day appointed for these judgments to come to the earth. That day is the day of the Lord mentioned in many many places on scripture. I do not believe Joplin to be God's judgment. In fact, I know of many believers in town who were listening to the voice of the Holy Spirit and were warned and prompted VERY strongly to leave certain parts of town 30 minutes or so before the storm hit. We had little warning in the natural, but much in the Spirit. Those who listened were spared. God in his divine foreknowledge warned many of His people. This is why it is so important to learn to hear the voice of the Lord.

I know there is a doctrine of sovereignty, but I believe it is often overstated at the expense of other clear teachings of scripture. God does not control every detail of a man's life. We only have to point to a few verses to show this clearly. For example:

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Here Gods explicitly stated will is for ALL to come to repentance. His expressed will is not being done because He had given man free will.

Mar 6:5-6 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. (6) And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

Here we see that Jesus' ability to work miracles was directly influenced by the people's faith to receive. We see that He cannot heal when we do not put faith in Him for that healing.

So to say that there is nothing or no-one that can act outside His will is a statement that cannot be supported scripturally for we have two incidents where that is precisely what happened.

This in no way diminishes that sovereignty of God. Sovereignty does not mean, "controls all things at all times", but rather, "I controlled by no one. Is supreme above all others." The statements are very different. I am often puzzled at how we arrived at the first definition when it is the second that is more accurate.

You see, if I determine in my heart to drive my car down the road at 120 mph and crash and die, it was not God who ordained that event. It was my own choice, and I paid the natural consequence of that choice. Man chose sin. God judged sin. Therefor when we experience a tornado it is, in a round about way, a natural consequence of our choice. It is a phenomena of a fallen world that we must live with until Jesus comes back, the world is judged, and all things are restored. No storms then praise God.

Just my thoughts. You may take them or leave them, but please don't accuse me of disregarding God's word. Disregarding the word of God is something I hope I am never guilty of.

Blessings!

Whether or not God would have been just to do so is not the issue. He will at the appointed day judge the earth and He will be righteous and just in doing so. I agree totally that apart from being made righteous by the blood of Jesus, every one of us is totally deserving of wrath. I praise God that I have been justified, made the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. I praise God that I have been saved from wrath. But apart from that we all deserve judgment. But that judgment is not yet. I believe it is reserved (acts 17) for the day of the Lord, therefore I do not believe God sent judgment on Joplin. Whether or not it is right, righteous, or just of God to judge is not in question at all. I am sure we can all agree on the answer to that question.

Great posts Travis!

Bless you brother!

Hi White_Stone,

Joplin is in my prayers. Please explain to me how you can choose to disregard what The Lord, The God of Hosts has to say? Is there anything or anyone that can act outside of His will? No, not one.

Not only do I pray for Joplin but for all the Saints and all who will become Saints through Faith in His Holy Child Jesus.

You must not know how painful it is to me to see His word disregarded. If it is so to me, I shudder to think of how He feels. How can you bring souls to Christ if you are turning your eye from God's own word? This is life and death work you are able to do. For my part I can only sit here in my home and pray, you have the great opportunity to work on the front line. I will pray for you.

I believe that we need to be very careful about assigning the blame of this tornado -- including all of the deaths -- upon the our Lord. In addition, we should be careful about insinuating that people "choose to disregard what the Lord, the God of Hosts has to say" simply because they may not agree with a particular view on the cause/effect relationship with this particular tornado (one of about 1200 per year in the US). This is a particularly active year. In fact, it is the most active since 1950. Of course, the population of this country is much greater than it was then too.

As I said in the dedicated Joplin tornado thread, this type of blame and assumptions about cause could be what Job's friends were guilty of throughout the book of Job (and which God called "words without knowledge" (Job 38:1-3). I read the entire book of Job recently, and many of their words sound quite a bit like the insinuations that I have read online from people who attribute this particular tornado (and all of its death and destruction) as an active or supernatural choice by God.

If the "anything and anyone acts according to His will" philosophy is correct, then mankind is completely devoid of free will and our sinful nature is a direct result of God Himself. Accordingly, every motive and ever act of nature or physics (such as dropping a glass on the floor) is a result of God's active oversight INSTEAD of order to this world that God designed at creation.

We have a high speed commuter train just a couple of blocks from our house. Throughout last year, several local teenagers chose to throw themselves in front of the CalTrain in acts of suicide. Why did they do this? Because the laws of physics prove that it was an effective way to kill yourself. If you stood in front of a heavy passenger bullet train (that reaches 79 mph), it WILL kill you. Someone could accuse these deaths as "the will of God," but it was the determination of these children to kill themselves and the laws of physics that resulted in their deaths. If someone doesn't die from being hit by a 500 ton train going 79 mph, it is because God INTERVENED on their behalf.

Do you see the difference? Weather is the result of PATTERNS. Yes, these are patterns that God designed -- but they are patterns nonetheless. God actively OVERSEES those patterns -- and many times intervenes on our behalf due to our prayers. However, the dew that appeared/did not appear on Gideon's wool fleece was miraculous BECAUSE of divine intervention. After all, dew appears every morning as part of the order of nature that God created.

Do the laws of physics (of which weather is a suborder) exist? Why don't you test it by unplugging your computer, disconnect the internet, remove the battery and see if you can still read SermonIndex? This website exists based upon the will of God -- but utilizes many different tangible laws of physics that God created (and men later figured out). The computer you use exists due to many principles of chemistry and physics (including laws dictating electricity, temperature and structure). The internet itself exists due to many other laws dictated by the order that God designed. Now, God could easily allow us to utilize SermonIndex without being plugged in or the internet. However, most of us either pay for service or use the service provided elsewhere.

A few days ago, the local weather report called for a high temperature of about 65 degrees Fahrenheit in our town today with a slight chance of rain. It is currently 58 degrees at our home (7:45 PM), but the temperature reached a high of 63 degrees at our home and it sprinkled just a bit.

Now, how did the weatherman know what the temperature was going to be? He certainly isn't a prophet. This forecast was simply an estimation made because the weatherman knows the principles of physics related to weather patterns (meteorology) -- and makes his assumptions based upon them. That same weather service predicts that we have an 80% chance of rain on Saturday and a high of 65 degrees. Now, it may rain...or the weatherman can be wrong. But, the weather can be forecast with amazing accuracy because of understanding certain principles of the order that God set for nature. Jesus mentioned this when he said that men can predict the weather because of the sky (Matthew 16:1-4).

As for the verse from Amos and the commentary from Matthew Henry: Yes, God ultimately has dominion over all things. However, Job is an interesting example in that God had SHIELDED Job and his family/belongings from danger (Job 1:10). Why would God need to "hedge" Job from danger if God was the one creating it in the first place? Moreover, the case of Job was the result of God ALLOWING Satan to act against Job (Job 1:12) rather than God following a suggestion of Satan and causing the hardship of Job as an act of judgment (as Job's ignorant friends suggested).

We were placed in a world that has a very specific order. If I place my hand on the stove, it will burn (unless God intervenes). If I fall asleep out of a second floor window, the order of gravity will cause me to hit the ground. If I exercise and eat right, I won't get fat. Now, we can imply that God controls us as pawns or puppets -- but that wouldn't explain a "sinful nature." That nature -- that is CONTRARY to the Spirit of God -- is what causes sinful men to do bad things.

Likewise, we no longer live in Eden. We live in a fallen world. There is an order to this world. It rains on the just and the unjust. During the summer, when the Earth is tilted on its axis toward the Sun (as it rotates and revolves), the days are a bit longer and warmer (including the air masses). During the winter, when the Earth is tilted on its axis away from the Sun, the days are slightly shorter and cooler (including the air masses). During the Spring, cold air masses often collide with encroaching warm air masses. This is when most tornadoes take place.

Now, I am not saying that God cannot create or prevent a tornado as an act of judgment. However, that would be SUPERNATURAL (outside of nature...super = outside; natural = nature). After all, the period of Great Tribulation that is coming will be a time in which the wrath that God has been storing up is poured out supernaturally upon mankind.

However, I think that it is quite a bit of an assumption to proclaim that God created this tornado apart from the natural order to this world that He designed. This is why I would urge caution in regard to proclaiming (as some have done) that this tornado -- and the death and destruction that resulted -- was a specific measure of judgment (in a sense of divine indignation or wrath) upon the town of Joplin. If we are wrong in our proclamation -- even slightly -- then we have risked inadvertently bearing false witness against the character, person or actions of God. This is the very thing that Job's friends were guilty of having done.

I think that it is best to pray for the people of Joplin without trying to portray the reasons, causes or motivation for the events. Could God have caused it? He can do anything -- except violate His own holiness, mercy, judgment, plan and character. Could God have stopped it? Of course, unless it was of a similar violation. God is certainly able to judge, dispense wrath and dispense mercy. After all, He is a God of justice, holiness and mercy simultaneously. Yet, as Job ultimately realized, some things are just "too wonderful" for us to understand or make proclamations in regard to.

Wow seems like "some" have gotten way off topic here. Ginnyrose posted about the behavior of the people after the tornado in her area. If you guys want to keep fighting over Joplin and if God purposely destroyed that little town or not then maybe be considerate to ginnyrose and go back to the other thread...

Ginnyrose: I have seen this kind of behavior before too. Its so sad that even when we are down and hurting all some can do is kick and attack. I know that there were tornado just the other day in MA and within a few hours the National guard had to be called not only to help with possible victims who needed help but to deal with looting. We need to pray.

rdg

What "you think" and "you believe" is of little consequence to US, so please do not include a WE in your beliefs. If YOU believe that YOU need to be very careful, then YOU be very careful. As for ME and the rest of US opposed to what "you believe" and what "you think", WE will hold fast to what God has written for US.

The caution that I urged was for the WE. The opinion that I suggested was my own. I hope to be very quick to make a distinction between what is MY opinion -- so that I am not guilty of making a blanket public proclamation and attributing it to the heart of God.

That is my biggest concern in all of this. There are many visitors reading these posts. When a group of very earnest believers begin to present their opinions of Scripture as if they are truth -- and convey the notion that anyone who disagrees, tests, or urges caution and verification BEFORE it is so publicly proclaimed -- well, it could have lasting repercussions.

There were believers killed in this tornado. I read stories about several devout believers who were killed in the storm. I was brought to tears when I saw a news story online about a family that lost both of their sons after their 3-year old was found on the shore of a nearby lake. While the ultimate end for such people is an eternity with Christ -- we just don't have any Scriptural examples (particularly in the New Covenant) where God actively KILLS His own people. People can try and connect dots of Scripture and speculate that He would do this -- but it is merely speculation.

As for the "rest of us:" There are many believers who disagree with the notion that God caused this tornado, Old Joe. I suppose that it is easy to dismiss those individuals, question their faith, or imply that they are encouraging "sin" with such caution. However, we also believe that we are holding fast to the Word of God.

As was previously said, God can certainly do ANYTHING. However, we have anecdotes from the Word of God regarding things pertaining to this tornado. Some people incorrectly believe that God killed Job's family...or destroyed his belongings...or brought scabs upon his body. Yet Scripture is clear that God had PROTECTED Job, and only removed that "hedge" after Satan's conversation (in Job 1:12 and 2:6). Job's friends thought that it was God's doing and speculated that God performed these things as an act of judgment for one reason or another.

Job listened to them...and God rebuked him for it. God told Job that his friends "darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge" (Job 38:2). Job repented, admitting that he spoke of things that he just didn't fully understand.

It is not at all off topic. Eccl 8:11 "Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil."

Those who teach the Lord will not do such a thing (Zeph 1:12-13) encourage others to sin with thoughts of impunity.

I urge you to reconsider your angry and accusatory words, Old Joe. I couldn't care less about the accusations about those of us who disagree with your opinions. However, I do urge you to read the Book of Job (specifically, chapters 3-37) and consider how similar your claims sound to what Job's friends uttered.

Some people choose to accuse God. For instance, the disgustingly repulsive Westboro Baptist Church does this on a regular basis. They parade to funerals and proclaim that God killed the deceased as He brought judgment upon a soldier or politician (or other figure). They loudly and proudly proclaim that "God hates" the person rather than the sin. Their misguided zeal is obvious to most believers. However, their accusations (about God and man) are awfully similar to the counsel of Job's friends.

Some people like that feel no hesitation nor prudence when they point the finger at Him and loudly and publicly proclaim that HE was the one who supernaturally created a tornado to KILL, STEAL and DESTROY the people of that city. However, each of those individuals will give an account to God for such an accusation, just as I will give an account to God for urging caution.

Hi rainydaygirl and ginnyrose,

Wow seems like "some" have gotten way off topic here. Ginnyrose posted about the behavior of the people after the tornado in her area. If you guys want to keep fighting over Joplin and if God purposely destroyed that little town or not then maybe be considerate to ginnyrose and go back to the other thread...

I apologize if it seemed like this thread was hijacked. I just saw some more public claims about this tornado (directed at brother twayneb's comments) and was inclined to urge some caution accordingly.

I appreciated sister ginnyrose's comments. Like twayneb said, things like this bring out the character of men. Still, for all of the tragedy, I am encouraged when I read of stories where people have turned to God following tragedies...or because the people of God have reached out to those who are hurting.