Those crazy Puritans, that crazy Dave Wilkerson, and crazy me ...

i was watching the revival program "One Nation Under God" on TBN, when one of the pastors said that everytime any type of individual disaster, and especially any type of major collective disaster happened to the Puritans, their first and only response was REPENTANCE! ... The pastor said it didn't matter how good they'd been prior to say a dire illness afflicting themselves or a family member, or a famine, terrible storm or earthquake, they felt it a sign of God's rumbling displeasure, and they got about the remedy of repentance ... Not so today ... we're educated ...Today most folk, including many believers, view the Puritans as a bunch of fanatic sour pussed legalist who had no understanding (as we so learned today) that those diseases were simply caused by microbes, famines by fluke weather patters, drought and hurricanes also, and earthquakes are scentifically proven as but the ever so slowly shifting of the earths mantle plates ... But is that the case? ... Or are all such seemingly natural phenomena, as crazy Dave Wilkerson expounds, not only in the hands of an all controlling God, but also of His use in not only rumbling His displeasure with mankind, but in executing devestating judgment to the inhabitants of the earth ... "Nahhhhh" ... many of todays saints say, "We're under grace, God doesn't open up the earth and swallow folk in this dispensation, He's our Timex God, when it comes to His absorbing our continual blatant sin(s) He's just quietly sitting back in glory taking a licking, but keeps on ticking" ... Well crazy brother Dave in this sermon out of Deuteronomy preaches otherwise ...The Last Days as Seen by the Prophetsby David Wilkerson https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=4390According to crazy brother Dave, those crazy Puritans had the right idea of repenting at first sign of any trouble, which this crazy believer also believes ... As a fellow crazy i totally agree with crazy brother Dave, judgment is not coming to America the nation and Church, it's already here and quickly escalating ... But then what do we crazy folk who see God's almighty hand in everything know?Crazy brother Dave ends this sermon by saying that we crazies, as things get worse, will become calmer, and calmer, in fact rejoicing as things get worse ... i can tell you that in all the years of my Christian walk i have never felt more at peace, and calm, as i am right now ... This might sound crazy, but it feels like i'm in "the calm before the storm" ... This jester for Jesus is looking forward in 2005 to standing back and beholding the Almighty unmistakable moving of the hand of our Lord ... Severe changes are nigh in the Body, as judgment is already begun in the house of the Lord! ... Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth, as it already is in heaven Lord Jesus ... AmenGod Is Training A Holy Remnant by David Wilkersonhttps://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=3292The following is a distributed "word" the Spirit gave this cuckoo for Christ in January of 2001 ...WELCOME TO THE TRUE, NEW MILLENNIUM! .... 2001 .... "THE COUNTDOWN HAS BEGUN"OCCURENCES IN THIS DECADE:FIRST TO THE CHURCH ..... The Church of Jesus Christ, from Pentecost up until (313 AD) the time of the Roman church's usurpation of the leadership of the Holy Spirit, was a "do right" Church. It was not concerned with "grand edifices", but with the lowly individual human being as "temple" - and the welfare of the poor. It was not concerned with "pomp", but more eager to "pump" the life changing message of the Lord Jesus Christ. It's only interest in "circumstance" was "Are you saved" ? ... and "do you know Jesus"? And the only "ceremony" that held it's interest was that of "baptism", and the keeping of the "Last Supper" sacrament. After Satan's deception of the Body of Christ (via the vanities of men) into/thru a 1200 year period of spiritual darkness (The Dark Ages - 313 to 1525 AD), the Lord eventually called Martin Luther as His "protest(ant) reformer". Since the time of his nailing the "95 THESIS" (1517 AD) to the church of Rome's door, the Body of Christ has been on a long, slow road back to recovery! Even though in our illness we have gained countless souls over the centuries (for the Word of God never returns unto Him void), we've since been on the mission of a "get right" Church! Christ has been waiting all this time for us to "renew our strength"! .... Well guess what! .... God say's, "WE'RE HEALED, so pick up our bed/his cross and walk"!!! .... God is now re-requiring a "do right" Church! He knows that WE are now just "pretending" infirmity, because WE don't really want to bear His cross, by individually speaking up about His Gospel ! ... THIS IS THE FINAL HARVEST! As per Revelation chapters 2 & 3, the Lord is about to "remove angels/pastors" and "candle sticks/individual churches" - "if thou doth not repent"! In other words its either "do right now", or "die right now"! ... spiritually and/or physically. ... And yes there is still "sin unto death", even under grace (1 John: 5:16).... Many pastors are about to be physically called home, so as to be replaced by "those whom God has chosen" to tend His flock. We are about to witness an unprecedented stirring up of the Body of Christ due to the Divine dismissal of "angels/pastors" who are not willing to "repent" to the renewed leadership of the Holy Spirit. And the redistribution (removal of candlesticks) of their sheep, hungry for the undiluted Word, towards relocation into "do right" churches (like that of Philadelphia) under "do right" pastors! .... So if YOU'RE a "do right" pastor, GET READY! ... for both your ministry and your responsibilities are about to skyrocket! (Matt: 25: 28-30) .... And you store front "do right" pastors of poor Smyrna type churches had better start looking for larger digs! ... Then "hold fast that which thou hast, that no man take thy crown"! (Rev. 3:11) Also the imminent chastisements coming on America will force the Body of Christ in the U.S., into a renewed sense of Christian community and sharing (Acts. 2: 44-47 & Act. 4:34). God is not pleased with the palsied effect that socio-economic, racial, doctrinal, and denominational schisms have wracked upon His Body (1 Cor. chapter 12). There is but "one Lord, one faith and one baptism"! (Eph . 4: 1-6). And we are all "equally" joint heirs in Christ (Rom. 8:17). Let me make this analogy. We are not to be like the harlot that rides the back of the beast. We are not to be soft, puffy and bloated with the excesses of the warnings of 1 John 2: 15 & 16. WE ARE THE BRIDE OF CHRIST! Christ is coming back for a glorious Bride, one trim enough to don our soon coming wedding gown of glory! ..... There will be no signs of carnal overindulgences on the body of a Bride, fresh from being toned by the work in the field of her Lords final harvest .... REPENT!If you suspect the above the rantings of some misguided crazy man in Christ then please pray for me as hard as i'm praying for you because i don't think you're crazy in Christ enough ... Amen

God is all-powerful but not all-controlling. If God was all-controlling, then essentially, we have no free will and and one must embrace the doctrines of ultra-Calvinist groups like Westboro Baptist Church (which runs Godhatesfags.com and Godhatesamerica.com).This means that there can be no repentance unless God decides you are worthy to repent, which, if God hates sin, means that you wouldn't ever be worthy to repent. This means that, after receiving Christ, if you make one mistake it means you weren't really chosen by God to be a Christian, and so you're going to hell without anything on your part that you can do to change it, so you might as well just go out and sin up a storm because you're just going to hell anyway.This is what is preached by these people. They are filled with hate and anger and do not love one another as God loves them.But I digress. My point here is, many occurences that we believe to be coincidence are likely God-enacted, but not all of them. If it were so, it would have disastrous effects on other doctrines of Christianity we both hold to be true.

Just like the puritians when things go wrong in my life its carpet time. I don't repent after every little thing but if , say the car breaks down and needs repaired---no big deal. But if the car breaks down and the washers goes kaput and something else happens that affect my families well being all at once,,,,you can believe my knees hit the floor and I seeking the Lord as to repentance from sins, just like thoughs puritans.

BROTHER RAHMAN,BECAREFUL TO READ THE SCRIPTURES. IN THE LAST DAYS THERE WILL BE NO REVIVAL BUT APOSTASY. DONT EXPECT THAT GOD WILL REPLACE THE PASTORS WITH NEW ONE WITH STIRRING UP OF THEIR SPIRIT. DONT TAKE MY WORDS AND FIND OUT YOURSELF. MAY GOD BLESS YOU WITH UNDERSTANDING.IN CHRIST SHANKAR

shazbot you wrote;"God is all-powerful but not all-controlling. If God was all-controlling, then essentially, we have no free will" ...i don't mean in the aspect of free will, yes we all have free will on this side of glory but not on the other side, as God already knows whether we be vessels of mercy, or vessels of wrath ... When i say all controlling i mean as to the bottom line, the final say ... But to me, even in our aspect of choice, in that final analysis if we chose wrong, it's the all controlling God (or maybe i should say the God who has everything under control) who decides where you'll spend eternity ... Our wills at this time may be ours, but what our wills are placed in is not, for that belongs to God ... In the final analysis after death, if we're not under the blood of Jesus, God controls where you end up ... You may want to change your mind later to escape hell, but God won't change His ...You also wrote;"My point here is, many occurences that we believe to be coincidence are likely God-enacted, but not all of them. If it were so, it would have disastrous effects on other doctrines of Christianity we both hold to be true".For some my take on this subject might cause disastrous effects on other doctrines of Christianity, which is why they reject my stance, and that's a matter of free will ... We can believe what and how we want until the Holy Spirit shows us if we're right or wrong in our beliefs, and that only occuring if we don't reject His correcting ... For me personally an all controlling God does not diminish anything of God or His word when i say i believe that God moves soveriegnly or permissively in His will throughtout human history ... It's like when a church roof collapses and kills saints, did God do that soveriegnly, or did He just permit it? ... Only God knows, and unlike prior in my wrestling with God if it occurs, to me His will is being done, and it's not up to me to question Him (anymore) about how He excercises His will, for my faith in Him is no longer connected to "Why God" in my life in the here, but "Thank You God" for my glorious life in the hereafter ... i hope this makes it clearer where i'm coming from ... It's become a most comforting thing for me to rest in the faith that God works all things out to my good, and that no matter how dire things may appear He's got it all in total control ...

Shankar you wrote;"MAY GOD BLESS YOU WITH UNDERSTANDING".Amen ... That's why i posted this thread ... He's about to reveal to me just who's crazy ... (Me) for believing and acting upon for the past 21 years what i believe He's said in my spirit about Revival and final harvest, (or you) who belives my exact opposite ... That's why i'm so calm and at peace, for in my spirit i know that i've done all that i've believed He's required of me in these first 21 years of service in Him, so now to be made plain to me and all those i've ministered to for two decades thru my belief in what i've heard Him say ... Was it Him, or was it me directing my faith and works? ... That's what's about to be brought to light!In the coming year(s) may He make Himself unmistakably plainer and bless us all with higher understanding ... Amen

Brother Rahman,If i write in caps it means i am aggressive i believe thats what one of the member wrote to me. I didn't know this. sorry if you have taken it in the aggressive mode. this is the first time i am participating in a forum. i didnt know the rules and regulations and how to write. it is not the question of who is crazy, it is to rightly see the scriptures. May the Spirit of God convicts you and bring light. As a brother i just want to give you hints what Jesus mentioned in the last days "just as in the days of Lot and in the days of Noah" and again Paul warning the believers in the letters to thessalonians (2nd thessalonians chapter 2). Praise God. It is not about who is crazy? We make mistakes. it is to get up and walk again acknowledging our mistakes. It is not about how many years i am ministering it is about How i walk with the Lord. the more you go close to Lord we will see how much sinful we are. Like the Lord said there is nobody good except God. May God bless you.Shankar

Brother Shankar, i recieve your words of concern and admonition in the love in which they are given ...In His grace,Br. R

Brother Neil you posted"May the Holy Spirit fill you and thrill you"Thank you brother! ... and 10 fold back unto you ...In His love,Br. R

Brother Greg you wrote;"Yes I think shows on TBN are a joke compared to the insight into the spiritual that the puritans had. Their hearts would be grieved to see the trash we watch. I would equate it as spiritual junk food". Yes i already know how you feel about TBN, you paint all it's programming with such a large judgmental brush, but that's your prerogative ... But from where i sit everything that comes on TBN, or any other Christian Broadcasting, ain't all bad" ...You continued;"Your categorization of the puritans is from ignorance of them and their beliefs. Our modern day 'charismatic' 'spirit-filled' atmosphere jocks at much of what is true genuine spirituality and discipline. What a day we live in".Ouch, i do believe you've started to throw jabs and upper cuts at me bro, praise God i've been crippled ... '0) ... My categorization of the Puritans? ... Where in my post did i give my personal view point on the Puritans? ... I have nothing but the utmost respect for the Puritans as is stated in many of my past posts, and especially due in fact that our Lord brought me to SI to learn of them ... Brother Greg i sense that i've become a burr under your saddle for some reason, and if that be the case why don't you drop me a line and tell me what it is, if you don't want to aire it here ...You continued;"I would ask brother Rahman that you don't use the terms 'crazy' david wilkerson.. even though I know you are being sarcastic but terms like that are found in search engines and people can mis-interpreate what SermonIndex beliefs towards that mans doctrine.OK Brother Greg, but i'm not using any terminology toward brother Wilkerson that he himself doesn't acknowledge as one of the derogatory terms others use against him, as i'm sure many back in the day thought of the Puritans in like manner, as so many of the folk i know do me, i'm just identifying myself within that same group ... I also think brother Greg that if you have figured it out by my post that i'm being sarcastic, others than those under intensely strong satanic delusion will also ... As i stated before, let's clear the air, what's really bugging you about me ... Am i just a little to crazy in my Christianity for you, then get in line (and i'm not being sarcastic here just real) ... Just say the word brother, and i'll shake the dust of my sandals from SI threads with the quickness of which i appeared ... PS - And i won't be mad, because i love you to much for that ... Amen ... '0)

Brother Greg you wrote;"I have alot of worries about your posting things you see on TBN and from other questionable sources. I do understand that God uses many things and you can get edifyed from some things on that station but overall its not something I want to start as a trend in discussing and using as an example". Ok brother Greg, i'll tailor my threads/posts from now on not to mention such sources, but you're right when you say "I do understand that God uses many things and you can get edifyed from some things on that station" ... It's those "some things" that He's always tuned me to, and most recent those "some things", in combo with those "some things" from SI, over this year have brought me to a new level of love, peace and rest in Him, and i do praise Him, and give Him all the glory for it ... Hey ... aren't you glad you're not my pastor? ... '0) ...

Wow brother Lazarus, what you've posted is most timely ...Qoute;"And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works." Revelation 2:21-23i want to be amazed that hardly any preachers (at least those i see and hear) ever discern and preach to us just what Christ is saying in His, "yet I have something against you" in the Revelation ... I say want to be amazed because somehow i want to believe that preachers are all supposed to be a lot further up on the mountain than we pewsters, but that just isn't the case ... If it were not for the Lord's Spirit being all over me about His messages to His churches in the Revelation, i'd be silent about them too ... i think it probably safe to say that my own pastor wishes i'd never heard of the Church of Philadelphia, and the open door policy Christ has before it ... That's the final message (3 of 3) He sent me to my pastor with at the beginning of 2004, and the consequences of our not preparing ourselves a collective living sacrifice towards His being able (by His Spirit) to ushering us thru that door ... i know this ain't a popular belief, but the Bible shows that when Church headship/leadership is just as pre-occupied with the things of the world as the world itself, He's gonna send somebody to attempt the getting of repentance, then as a last resort He deals with it first hand ... i think it's because of our Lord's great longsuffering that nobody, especially today, puts any fear into the consequential words Christ speaks to His Church out of the Revelation ... It may take Him what seems like a long time to us to act upon such judgment, but if He won't do it it wouldn't have been written ... In my case the Lord shut my mouth after the word i delivered to my pastor Jan of 2004 was ignored, and in my spirit i heard Him say that this part of my work was completed, and that He would take it from there ... i'm not gonna say that i wasn't happy to hear that, because it's my experience that entrenched pastors are most often immovable except by the direct hand of our Lord ... Since May, in my church, it's experiencing money problems for the first time in a way that pastor says he can't remember ... The Lord told me that the people are tired of the cliched prosperity formulas and don't belive them anymore, and many can't understand why out of all their giving many are losing jobs, etc ... My pastors youth center that was supposed to be completed past spring, is still a hole in the ground ... He's attempted cheaper methods of construction which has called down the wrath of L&I on him, and now all the funerals that are occurring from violent deaths, in which one of the ministers said this past Wednsday that it seems like we're under a curse ... i just quietly wondered to myself, "Lord what's it gonna take before a minister actually realizes that it is a curse" ... God sent me with a message of 40 weeks of purification towards going thru our open door, and now out of what i can only see as a fit of conviction pastor put our assembly on 40 days at the beginning of November, and when that didn't work he put us on another 40 days thru unto Jan. 2005, and now there's murmuring in the congregation ... All of a sudden i'm getting calls, and the Lord has shut my mouth to anything else but my praying with such individuals for our pastor and church ...i had asked the Lord some time ago about my pastor, and why he seemed so adamant to not hearing the word that would prepare us thru His open door, and just a few nights, out of the clear blue as usual He answered me ... He said, "He's afraid of all that he'll have to leave behind to go thru My open door" ... i guess that pretty much sums up all our problems as children of the King, but from this "runner from" and "wrestler with" God new perspective, i'll take voluntary repentance over forced repentance any day! ... Christ's words in Rev. 2 & 3 are quite painful, and is coming as an unbelievable shock to generations who've come to view Him as the passive grace Genie of the Bible ...It used to really bother me when so many saints, for all intensive purposes, considered me a man overboard ... Not anymore, because that's where God's Peters long to be ... willingly ...Praise God, and lets all pray, pray, pray for our pastors/preachers/congregations/Church/ and ourselves that our pain thresh hold is low enough to keep us from having to experience the full brunt of Christ's correction, for as it stands now we're difinately a stiff necked people ... Amen