Help with Ecclesiates 7:1-5?

"A good name is better than precious ointment, and the day of death than the day of one's birth. 2It is better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of feasting; for that is the end of all men, and the living will lay it to his heart. 3Sorrow is better than laughter, for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better. 4The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning, but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth. 5It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools."

Could someone please help me try and understand this passage? Perhaps a life application or a story that would expound it a bit better? I know Blessed are those who Mourn is this what is being hinted at? Thanks in advance!

God Bless,
Matthew

In a house of mirth or feasting, nobody is considering the length of their days. Solomon here is observing that when you attend the memorial of the dead, you too will consider your end. This passage is so apropos for our generation. They are all partying away their lives, entertaining themselves into the grave with no consideration of it. "Eat and drink for tomorrow we die." I like what C.S. Lewis said about it.

"There are, aren't there, only three things we can do about death: to desire it, to fear it, or to ignore it."

In this case it would be "ignore it." In houses of feasting, the last thing on a persons mind is their own mortality.

This may sound morbid, but it is true. I enjoy spending time in graveyards. The awareness of death and the shame of its reality can cause us to embrace life more fully. Personally, I love this passage of scripture and think about it often.

Blessings on your day Matthew.

So basically this passage is a call to Reality and there's nothing more real than Death. Do you also see a connection with the beattitudes of the Sermon on the mount? We humans seem to enjoy and love delusion and escape from our own little worlds. We as Christians can do the very same by ignoring our brothers and sisters dying in the persecuted countries, we avoid this reality the best we can.

Matthew, when one goes to the house of mourning - usually this involves the death of a loved one - one is face to face with death. You see here a body that was alive one time but now still in death. Your mind goes back to that life, how busy, active he/she was. And you take stock: this will happen to me, too, someday. As one reflects on this reality it challenges me to make my life worthy, to live a life useful to God, to others. How am I measuring up? Will people be glad when you die, be rid of you? Or, will they grieve, miss you presence because of your character? And ultimately, you will see God - are you ready for this encounter? This is the bottom line.

This what happens when you are confronted with death in the house of mourning. In a house of mirth, people may resort to it to stifle the voice of the Spirit, to dull their conscience. To drown out the realities of life. Having said this, I have been to wakes where people will laugh, tell funny stories of the deceased..and this is good as well. The memory of this person evokes pleasure which is demonstrated by the joyous retelling of these acts.

This is my understanding...and it is because of this that I find attending funerals - of a life well lived - inspiring.

BTW, you wanted a testimony...I have been to funerals of professing Christians where the officiating pastor never mentioned a testimony, never mentioned their faith, only that they were funny, loved people, were good...and I felt so sad...and I wondered? how do I want to be remembered when I die? Does my life reflect an intimate walk with God? This is the issue.

I have been thinking about your connection to the beatitude. The thought there had not quite crossed my mind before. But I think there is a way to make that connection. The time when we see Jesus weep was at the grave site of Lazarus. Jesus wept because of the unbelief of his friends and disciples, but there is probably something to be said that it was also interesting that it happened particularly in the face of death. Jesus did not weep at the unbelief of the disciples concerning the feeding of the multitudes, or at other displays of unbelief. But particularly the unbelief concerning death and the resurrection.

To Jesus, death was shameful (Hebrews 12:2). The garden was a major climax of human history due to the struggle that took place in it. It is there we see Jesus battle with the shame of it, and the weight of its burden. Where Jesus was under such agony considering what he was to endure.

I often wonder if a man is truly a "pastor" if they are not able to weep with those who weep. Or even weep over sin in people whom they are called to or even weep over their own sin. I have noticed amongst some "professionals" a lack of this a callousness to sin due to exposure probably lacking prayer. The sheep are just numbers to them. Get in line, get your number, let me advise you, but don't expect me to get too involved. A true shepherd gets his garments soiled by the smell and grime of the sheep.

I just read also in Corinthians (5:1-2) this morning. "It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this might be take away from you." Here Paul uses the same Greek word for mourned as Jesus used in the Beatitude. I do not know if there was another word, but I think the connection is significant. Death is the result of sin. Death was the necessary result of sin having entered the world. Some have thought it to be a punishment of a vindictive God, I see it as the grace of God though it represents great shame. Without death, man would be perpetually stuck in a sinful condition. Many will go on to maintain that perpetual condition, but when death entered the world, immediately God promised the remedy of redemption through his Son. Genesis 3:15. The flaming swords and the cherubim were the grace of God, it is only in the glorified state that we can partake of the tree of life (Revelation 22:2.) So here when Paul talks about mourning over the sin in Corinth, we see again the disposition that we ought to have as the beatitude indicates. And rightly so, the sting of sin is death. The two concepts are cyclically interchangeable.

There is also for us now a conflicting paradox, for the believer can boast with conviction in the Lord, "O death where is your sting?" We rejoice that our captain has dealt death...its death blow.

You are right, we do avoid acknowledgment of the suffering of others Matthew, and I have been just as guilty as anyone concerning this. I often feel like my namesake when he lamented, "Oh that my head were waters." I wish and pray that I could take the burden of grief upon myself.

I recommend that we do whatever we can to not ignore the persecuted and suffering, even if all we are capable of doing is to pray for them.

You can check this out:

http://www.foundationsforfreedom.net/References/OT/Poetical/Ecclesiastes/Ecclesiastes00_Design-Purpose.html

"Solomon looks back upon his backslidden life and sees that when man pursues things ‘under the sun’ or apart from God, things are not well" (Paul J. Bucknell).

From Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament:

Ecc 7:1 "A good name is better than precious ointment..."
this simply means,Honor is better than vanity.

Some renditions have attempted to duplicate the alliteration found in the Hebrew: Better is name than nard; and, Fair fame is better than fine perfume. We might paraphrase it by saying, A good reputation smells better than the most expensive perfume.

Ecc 7:1 "...and the day of death than the day of one's birth".

Understanding why Job said these in the following verses
might give us insight to what solomon had said.

Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born...

Job 3:11 Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?

Job 3:12 Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?

Job 3:13 For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest,

Job 3:17 There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.

Job 3:18 There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor.

Job 3:19 The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master.

Job 3:20 Wherefore is light given to him that is in misery, and life unto the bitter in soul;

Job 3:21 Which long for death, but it cometh not; and dig for it more than for hid treasures;

Job 3:22 Which rejoice exceedingly, and are glad, when they can find the grave?

Job 3:23 Why is light given to a man whose way is hid, and whom God hath hedged in?

Job 3:24 For my sighing cometh before I eat, and my roarings are poured out like the waters.

Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.

Job 3:26 I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.

Were they not speaking out of despair, Solomon over his backslidden life and Job over his losses, pain, and sorrows.

I have seriously put this into my mind now, I have heard many stories of peope who are persecuted and they rejoice. Why? Their answer is commonly this "While being persecuted they met with God." I believe the House of Mourning is the Lord's very own School of Learning. While suffering we become open to the deeper life God calls us to. We are dependant on His supply and so we are gratiful for it and don't take it for granted.

We as humans naturally avoid pain and hurt but Christ Jesus and those that followed Him embraced their Cross and embraced the Pain. Often times we sin and the reason is to avoid hurt. I remember when I was a kid, I would do something wrong and was asked point blank by my parents what I did and I lied, knowing it was wrong but also knowing I would escape punishment Temporarily. Except we had a rule in our house if you tell the truth your punishment was EXTREMELY reduced and if you lied your punishment was greatly increased.

Blessed are those who Mourn because they haven't taken the road of sin to feel temporary pleasure but rather embrace their suffering and Learn of God through it all.

Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Heb 12:4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

Heb 12:5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him.

Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives."

Heb 12:11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.