" Sinning Christianity "

Paul does not accept the views of " Sinning Christianity "
1 Thessalonians 2:10 You are witnesses, and so is God
( WoW ! God my Witness ) of how holy, righteous and blameless
we were among you who believe.
Test me, O Lord, and try me, Examine my heart and my mind. Ps 26:2
Go for it !
2 Corinthians 7:1 Let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and Spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
I urge you then:
So that you would walk in a manner worthy of the God who calls you into His own Kingdom and Glory 1 Thess 2:12

Amen brother, there is not just forgiveness for sin but we can overcome sin also by the grace of Christ and the blood of Christ.

God lead us on this narrow way still!

Paul does not accept the views of " Sinning Christianity "

And neither does he accept the views of a "sinless Christianity". Paul's accepted view is a sinning Christian with a sin-less desire (a desire to sin less), recognizing that being guilty of ANY is guilty of ALL. This is what causes hope to be rightly placed in Christ.

OJ

I absolutely agree with you brother 100% all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
But It’s a tragedy if at the Lord’s return some within the church were caught living in sin or lukewarmness
The Biblical standard is still to be blameless and holy.
We must be wholeheartedly committed to the Lord and separated from all that offends him. Lets not lower God’s holy standard to accommodate the trends of the society we live in. We need to call the church back to God’s standard of righteousness.
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify your through and through.
May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it. 1 Thess 5:23
The Church needs to be on the ALERT, and waiting for his return, for we do not know which day our Lord is coming. May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones 1 Thessalonians 3:13 4:7
For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification.
So he who rejects this in not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you. It is God’s will that you should be sanctified and live in a way that is holy and pleasing to him. Bless you brother.

So are all you folks blameless then?

I totally agree that we should be striving for holiness and aiming at perfection, but we still all fall short and make many, many mistakes. This is not making an excuse for sin - it's just the way things are. It can take a long time to weed out those hidden ugly sinful attitudes (think of pride, selfishness etc.). If God marked our transgressions nobody would stand (Ps 130).

Someone posts Scripture on Holiness or perfection [the sane definition of 'perfection'] and THAT's where we get all the "Yes, But"s.

Do we REALLY need to keep hearing that we "can't be perfect"?

What if every Epistle kept repeating over and over - "Yeah, but, don't forget, you're going to mess up."

"Yeah, but, don't forget you ain't perfect"

"Yeah, but, don't forget - it's going to take a long long time before you're where you should be."

THINK ABOUT IT. What if The Word read like that.

In reality - what does The Word say?

Just a few to illustrate what it Does say -

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought

2Co 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ

Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Was watching the Yankees with my Dad earlier and thinking - What if the coach or trainers kept telling their pitchers, catchers and batters, etc - "You'll never get it right." - "Try as you will, you'll never make a hit." - "There's no way you can do what you learned from me, your trainer."

That's what all these "Yes, buts" are saying are saying to The Word of GOD/Jesus.

Do we REALLY need to continually hear that "we can't" - or do we need to go back to the Only Trainer's Manual that He left us and knock off the "Yes, but"s ?

Can we move on to Romans 8 now?

Not only do we have the ONE Who Did do it All right, living inside us but something that we seem to have forgotten --- that His Word is Equally as Powerful as His Spirit.

One in the same. The Word of GOD and The Spirit of GOD ...

and He tells me, "I can do ALL THINGS through Him that strengthens me and by His Word I'm made clean."

Yippee!

We even have bleachers full of fans cheering us on in Hebrews 11, besides the Angels. :)

What team potential we have to be the Overcomers He spoke about!

Go Team Go!!!

Do we REALLY need to continually hear that "we can't"

ActuaLly, YES!

If you want to bring despair onto a believer, tell them to be perfect, and that they are expected to be so. In a matter of days most peoples hearts will testify that this is just not so.

When the Bible says to 'be ye perfect' it is telling us that to humble us, and to the first person who disagrees, I say then don't just flap the lips about perfection, but demonstrate it for us. When you keep failing sooner or later you'll get some sense in the matter.

OJ

Oh dear YHLives, there's the reason of Love. If we look at 1Corth13 and apply it to our Love for Him. Words can't do justice of why we would want to be "like Him". It's like wanting to crawl under His skin to be as close as possible to Him because we love Him so.

"SELF-righteousness, control or power" is just the opposite of what He is making us into. Laying aside who we were or are in "faith" that He'll work to fulfill His Word.

How can one explain the desire that comes from Love alone?

Friend, the more of Him that you see - all the things that you mentioned turn to less than dust.

Yes ~ "we can almost hear how Paul was struggling to contain his excitement in articulating the grand themes of life in the spirit, heirdom with Christ, hope of glory and everlasting love of God."

My excitement is that I don't have to stay in any pit of despair because of His promises to deal with those things that even I don't like about myself, nonetheless others but more importantly Him and why? - only because knowing that He being Creator GOD took our flesh upon Himself and suffered more than any man, so that we can be forgiven.

How can one compare forgiveness with anything "self-centered" when they know 'what' they've been forgiven of.
I who was the wretch of the earth can now call Him my Husband, Father, Friend ---- Unmerited, more than we can grasp.
That He would actually put His Spirit into something like me despite what I was and am. That only makes one fight tears. I can't understand how "self" and any desires For 'self' could enter the mind of a regenerated human before the very Face of GOD Almighty.
How could any of us truly experience Him and see Him as GOD and be before His throne and desire "power and control"? That was and is Lucifer's way. The rich men of the earth that want to be the Gods of this earth have Lucifer for their father and their desire for control and power comes from him.
What differentiates a truly regenerated person from them - if it isn't His Love that He's put into our hearts?
With Love comes desire. He puts His desires into our hearts and from there it is a very lively hope of disappearing into Him. To HIS GLORY ONLY, comes from the mouths of His True Bride. When our own thoughts, words and actions mean nothing unless He's in it. When we can see through His eyes - have His thoughts - when before our father was the devil. The transforming work He's done in His Own. How do we not see that and not Love Him for it. Being rescued besides.
Try to describe this Love. Only maybe the Song of Solomon or 1 Corth 13 begins to and HE is "the reward" at the end of our days. He is the enabler. Nothing that originates in our own mind pleases Him and shouldn't please us neither.
He wrote the Book that should occupy our thoughts and come out of our mouths, with His Own Spirit indwelling and enabling us. Our only cry is to go "deeper still" into Him or that He take us Home to Himself. That's the sole desire, Friend - to be in Him.

Hi Joe. No one who reads the entire New Testament and leans with all that they are on every single Word of it, will ever be in "despair".

Just take Him at His Word or we're guilty of adding or subtracting from Him, Himself - The Word of GOD.

GOD is not a liar. His Word is Equally as powerful as His Spirit -- and in His transforming work in us as well. If that were not so - He wouldn't have used The Word alone against Satan in the wilderness. His Word is all that we need after we've received the gift of His indwelling Spirit.

His Love.

Well first off, the Lords prayer was given to the disciples for them to pray in the kingdom in themselves, which happened at Pentecost. Even though they had been following the Lord, they were not under the control of the Holy Spirit till they were Spirit baptised, which made them holy - the Holy Spirit makes us holy.

So they were to ask for forgiveness at the time when they were still sinning. Walking in pertfection does not mean that one will never sin again - Peter fell from that when he sinned,but as there is no record of any other sin, we can safely say that he was restored.

Jesus saves us from our sins which means we are freed from them. It may lead to despair to hear that one is not in the kingdom if one still sins daily, but that despair is just what brings a man to Christ for cleansing and full salvation. Otherwise we are in danger and not in the ark and it is right to despair.

How much shall we pray if we are perfect?

We shall pray without ceasing. Everything we do will be under the control of Christ. If the LOrd calls them to fast or pray all night then they will but they will not be going around telling others about it.

How long should the perfect Christian read scripture a day? The living word is written on their hearts and it is not the amount of time spent but the ability to hear God and have it confirmed by scripture. There is no hard and fast rule. Some days it will be hours and another not much.

Lastly, the righteous need Him more than ever to keep them in that state of grace as it is through the power of God alone.

It may lead to despair to hear that one is not in the kingdom if one still sins daily, but that despair is just what brings a man to Christ for cleansing and full salvation.

So are you saying that anyone who sins daily is not saved? Can you honestly say you have not sinned in the last week whether in thought, word or deed? Also, how many times have people (I know I have) despaired and gone to Christ for full cleasning, only to find themselves tripping up again? I suppose God doesn't really want to save such people.

This is my problem with perfection theology. Instead of leading to joyful obedience in freedom it leads to condemnation and despair and is about as far from 'Good News' as anything can be.

If Jesus saves us from sin, then how can a man think he is saved if he is not free from it? Many believers do not go on to full salvation. The Lord keeps me free from sin but most of my life as a believer has been one of failure, until I fully trusted Him to save me from sin.

It does take more than just coming to Christ for cleansing, one has to be fully consecrated to Him, having made the decision to be finished with all things that are outside of His will and have faith that He will do the work.

It does lead to joyful obedience but the devil makes sure that this doctrine is misunderstood so that despair ensures. It is not the doctrine at fault.