Big money gets behind Rick Perry for president

Natan4Jesus this forum is really going off the rails.

Amen Brother! Lot of folks here or pastors in general, like the idea of the separation of Church and state, but some still want to bring it to the forums, go figure!

That is a ridiculous statement Bill.

It is true that he is a faux-conservative.

Mike

I do not care about the mix of politics and any belief system.
Rick Perry as well as any politician and all their rhetoric nonsense to the Our Faith.

As a matter of fact why are we even discussing this?

Hi martyr,

Yes, I know about them. They are government churches posing to outsiders as Christian churches. But inside are members of the party not members of the Body of Christ. They are mainly "show" churches to prove to the outside world that they have religious freedom when in fact they do not. Our government knows it is not true, but play along with them, in order to continue trade with them.

In America, when a religious organization chooses to be a tax exempt organization they are choosing to be a government entity, they are choosing to come under the government's influence and control to a certain measure.

This is the dirty little secret in American Christendom. There has already been a little marriage of Church and State and soon it will become a full relationship otherwise your tax exempt status will be pulled. Many that love money will do whatever the government wants in order to keep this status.

IRS - Whenever you seek tax exempt status and are granted it, you must now follow the guidelines to keep your tax exempt status. This means when you cry out against sin (eg. homosexuality, same-sex marriage) and someone doesn’t like it, they can contact the IRS and they will threaten to remove your tax exempt status.

This is what happens to churches when they try to make a stand against the evils of the day. Little does the church know, they are already exempt under the constitution. The IRS or any government organization, cannot hinder the ministry of any church since they cannot abridge the practice of religion. It is a shame that churches and ministries would rather maintain the ability to give a little piece of paper (receipt) than to thunder forth the truth. The IRS sets the rules as to what a tax exempt church can preach and what it cannot.

There are very few churches that are willing to forego the tax exempt status because they will not trade truth for a piece of paper. We must be able to preach the full counsel of God without any threats of government action. As long as you remain a private organization, you are protected by the first amendment. If you sell out to the government for Incorporation and tax exempt status, you forfeit those God given rights under the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Churches should never, ever put themselves in a position where the government has a say in their affairs, but mammon is the driving factor here otherwise, why marry the government in this area?

For those who will not donate toward personal ministries because you want your receipt, you possess the wrong concept of giving. If you filter your giving through what you can deduct, then you have not given. If you filter your giving through obedience to the Scriptures, then God will bless you far beyond what the globalist IRS can do.

In Christ,
Sarah

Read what Sarah says about separation of church and state and you will see that it is a religulous argument that the government wants us to be embroiled in. There is no such thing.

Mike

Hi Endzone...

I think that we need to be especially careful about our words when we speak about authorities in government (regardless of our suspicions or spiritual/personal disagreements). After all, we don't "wrestle" with them...and they may very well be established by God and His instruments on this Earth (Romans 13:1-7; I Peter 2:13-17; Ephesians 6:12).

BTW, are we allowed to talk politics here?

It is discouraged. Although the temptation is always present to participate in such a discussion, it almost always leads to conflict and distracts from the PURPOSE and INTENTION for this website.

In the SERMONINDEX FORUM DISCLAIMER/COMMUNITY RULES, it includes the following:

THE FORUM

Since it's inception, the forum here has been many things. A great fellowship, a fellowship of sorts while in it's unorthodox form and fashion often resembling both a battleground and a hospital. This can be both edifying as well as divisive. We hope to address a few of the misconceptions and concerns at the outset so that everyone will be on the same level footing as to what is acceptable and that which is not.

WHAT IT IS NOT

It is not a 'chat room'.
It is not a place to bring an agenda regardless of intentions.
It is not a place for promotion of ones self, website or wares.
It is not 'denominational' while gleaning from many.
It is neither legalistic nor 'anything goes'.
It is not a place for politics, politicians, policy's nor particular support thereof. More on this below.*

WHAT IT IS

It is first and foremost a privilege.
It is a gathering of saints now throughout the world. And that alone may be the most important factor to keep in mind at all times.
It is a place to share, discuss, listen, think and grow into all things in Jesus Christ.
It is bible based.
It is in aim and undergirding Revival. A Revival of God's thought. Of others and lastly, ourselves.
It is a longing for, praying for, a Revival of the same substance that is expressed through the many resources available here.
It is a seeking after the genuine and Sincere.
It is this foundation and focus while fostering a great freedom of discussion within some practical guidelines.

*POLITICS

We have found it necessary to curtail political discussion here for a variety of reasons. It is primarily out of step with the manner and thrust of Sermon Index in it's intention and we have found little good to come from an allowance of things based politically into the discussions.

It is inevitable that with an allowance of items and issues effecting us all by that which is happening in this present world that attributes of a political nature will creep in, this is understood. However, we will keep a very close eye on these things and may ask you to stop midstream or lock a posting if in our discretion we feel that it is out of place in the forum.

CONSPIRACY AND CONSPIRACY THEORY

We believe there is certainly a conspiracy afoot, that which is present since the fall of mankind in their enmity with God. What other websites or ministries may have of a variety of present theory as it relates to what the governments of the world are doing is too much in dispute to be presented here. The New World Order and One Government system is understood in a variety of fashion.

What we will not allow is unscrupulous and un-scriptural notions and ideals to foster fear and paranoia to the saints. Our trust and yours should be placed firmly in God, not in the conspiracy of the world, the flesh or the devil. We will monitor these things in our best discretion but do not bring in ministries or other agendas devoted to these mandates.

I must admit that I have previously engaged in discussions regarding politics here -- as far back as the lead up to the 2004 election. I only meant well and shared out of my own thoughts. However, from personal experience, those discussions often fostered difficult friction among very good brethren.

SermonIndex has believers from a wide range of backgrounds. This includes believers (and, sometimes, non-believers) who come from different doctrinal, sectarian, national backgrounds. While some may feel the liberty (or even a cause) to participate in government, the military and law enforcement, voting, campaigning, etc... -- there are others who hold to very specific "non-involvement" convictions. And, of course, there are many in-between.

I suspect that there are many much more pertinent things to discuss and talk about than politics or theories about this age. While we might see specific things in politics/government that we feel might conflict with the faith, causes us to be suspicious, or have an apparently "obvious" correlation with eschatology -- these things aren't supposed to move us.

"Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord."

- I Corinthians 15:58

The NIV and several other versions word this passage with a slight variation, wording it as a declarative: "Let nothing move you." It goes on, "Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain."

Anyway, I just wanted to touch on some of the things that you said -- not to be argumentative, but to show you that there is a different perspective and how such statements and conjectures can be hotly debated. This is NOT the purpose of this website. The temptation is always there to discuss such things (even passionately), but we need to be very weary of it. There are far better things to talk about that are even more pressing that who is running for President.

Does it matter?

It certainly matters to many of us on an personal, family, localized, national and even international basis. It likely matters in the scope of Biblical eschatology...and also within specific matters of righteousness and justice (in regard to sub-issues like abortion, homosexuality, religious freedom, etc...). However, in the scope of a discussion of revival, such discussions can serve as a distraction that moves us from what really matters.

I can say from experience that it is better to discuss other things. We can certainly pray (and ask for prayer) for such matters. But, I think that this forum is better served when we focus on our Eternal King -- the essence of revival -- than any temporary and Earthly authorities, politicians or kings. If we feel the need, there are other forums to discuss those things. Here, the goal is to promote CHRIST-CENTERED revival.

Thanks Chris, did not see that about politics.

Bill did I offend you?

Mike

Hi Endzone,

BTW, are we allowed to talk politics here?

Thanks for asking. As a rule, we avoid discussing political views and concerns here. This paragraph in particular (from our Disclaimer and Community Rules Chris posted) explains the intent behind this policy.

"We have found it necessary to curtail political discussion here for a variety of reasons. It is primarily out of step with the manner and thrust of Sermon Index in it's intention and we have found little good to come from an allowance of things based politically into the discussions."

Naturally, because politics seems to touch every shpere of life these days, differing political perspectives occasionally appear in members postings, but in general the agreement here to avoid political posts has reduced fruitless contention here in the forums:)

Thanks again for asking,

Mike

mikey2 did not see that about politics. Bill did I offend you? Mike

No you didn't, maybe I responded a little out there for someone that don't know me, it's just this has to be the 4th or 5th thread on Rick Perry. I guess what I am missing here is, why would we all not be behind anything/anyone that's condoning the spirit of Prayer? What really bothers me the most is, some here are "pre-judging" something that has not even happened yet, this could turn out to be a miracle we all need, to begin something big. Has God told some of the nay sayers that he did not endorse this? I mean how could this possibly be much/any different than what were seeing in our Churches now days? I guess maybe sometimes I am a little to optimistic, but it's always benefited me to be an optimist, it just makes me look at people/life with a better attitude.

Hey Bill,

I think you may have missed the original question. It was not about prayer, but I know the thread you are talking about.

Mike