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A Challenging thought...

J
Jessi Jul 23, 2011

I thought I would share something that has been a incredible challenge in my walk with God lately. I have made it a point to study the persecuted Church across the globe, and I made a very startling discovery: I think we're one of the few countries that does not experience what most of the Christians in the world experience!
I've been SO challenged to read testimonies of Christians who are suffering; who are counting Christ - alone - as more precious than life, family, belongings. They're living and dying for Christ, every day. They know what it is to fear for the lives of their families, their children.
It's really changed the way I look at life. The little trials I walk through are very small in comparison to the trials and challenges our brethren overseas face. I've been provoked to much prayer for the Church - of which we are a part - that is suffering so greatly for their faith in Christ. Let's not forget them.
I also read a book by Brother Andrew, "Secret Believers", that is excellent, provoking reading. It details numerous very real lives of Christians who are persecuted - and brings reality very close to home.
I hope this isn't too long and boring, but I've been inspired, and challenged, and wanted to share it with you all. Let's pray for our brothers and sisters overseas, and let's let God challenge our hearts by their testimonies. I think we're missing out, because of the comfort and freedom that we enjoy. It has helped me tremendously to widen my world and to realize that for many, following Christ means loosing everything else. Is He that precious to us?

sermonindex Jul 23, 2011

Amen Jessi, excellent observations.......brother Frank

E
Enochh Jul 23, 2011

yes jessi...putting things in perspective makes a "trial" here like rebellious teen, wayward spouse, jobs, bills etc. pale in comparison to what the church worldwide experiences daily. I hope we're ready when its our time to choose Jesus or our ____________....

sermonindex Jul 23, 2011

Reedited for grammer check.

Jesse was so encouraged by your post. I read the same book by Br. Andrew and indeed it is challenging. Then so was God's Smuggler, the story of Br. Andrew's life. Have you heard of Richard Wormbrandt? He a Romanian pastor who suffered persecution. His book Tortured for Christ details his sufferings for Jesus. The amazing thing is he had no bitterness toward his persecutors. Richard and Sabina Wormbrandt started a ministry we know as Voice of the Martyrs.

Brother you are wise to let the persecuted instruct you. I try to do the same. When I read the accounts of persecuted believers through Open Doors or Voice of the Martyrs my heart breaks and weeps. For them yes but also for us. The persecuted through theiir sufferings have learned what is truky important. They do not get caught up in a lot of the nonsense we in America get caught up in.

Jesse I would love to talk with you about the persecuted. The persecuted church is my heart calling. I do pray for them. There are some in this forum who have a heart for the persecuted church. My self being one of them.

Brother going to send you a private message after this post. Plrase check your inbox.

Blaine Scogin

sermonindex Jul 23, 2011

Jessi,

My sister my apologies. I kept thinking you were a brother. I tried to pm you about a conference call that I am part of. We are a group of intercessors who gather together across the nation and pray for the persecuted. I was going to pm you the info but pm is down. The profiles are working. If you pull my profile up under Martyr you will see my email. If you email me I can give you the number of our prayer call. I am sorry for this round about way but must respect the protocals of SI as I cannot post the number on this thread. But I would like to invite yuu or anyone else to come and pray with us for the persecuted.

D
DEADn Jul 23, 2011

I have asked the question as to why the persecution seen in other countries isn't seen here in the U.S.A. I think part of the answer is because America is a little more civilized in action? Yet, I have been amazed by the passion of those who are persecuted for their faith to the max and wondered what the difference between them and people here are.

I heard a program this week with a guy in India who used to be a hardcore communist who is now a christian. He says the difference is hunger. People here are not hungry for Jesus whereas people in these other lands are because they have nothing to their name but Jesus whereas here we have 'stuff'. That is sobering if you sit back and allow that to sink into your heart.

sermonindex Jul 23, 2011

Right on brother, right on. Also Paul said that those who live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.. I have not been persecuted lately for my walk with Christ. Am I godly???? Does my walk invite persecution???? Hard questions.

E
Enochh Jul 23, 2011

wow martyr that question hit me at my heart.....

J
Jessi Jul 23, 2011

Good challenge, brother. I have to think of Leonard Ravenhill: "How is it the world couldn't get on with the holiest man that ever lived, and it can get on with us?" That's a good question! Quite possibly we're not living lives that radically show the grace of God till it startles the world!

sermonindex Jul 23, 2011

Amen, sisters and brothers. May we live those holy, radical lives for Jesus. Actually we may call them radical, Watchman New would say a holy life is the normal Christian llfe and he was persecuted for it. Someone has said if an American Christian was arrested in America for their faith would there be enough evidence to convict them. Ouch. Convicting myself here.

Q
Questor Jul 23, 2011

I fear more for those who are not in constant danger of persecution, including myself. It is not that I don't pray for those in immediate physical danger, or acknowledge their constant witness to those around them. They win souls by their bravery, and their committedness to Yeshua, and their willingness to die. All their trust in Adonai is on display hourly, and they do great works, and gain much fruit. They live and die in the moment, and must live their lives deeply and vibrantly, in the constant danger of an open battlefield.

For us in the West, the battle is a more subtle one, and to me, the more dangerous to the pilgrim who walks in it.

The West is a jungle of complicated choices, made all the more difficult by the lack of a good witness being visible, even to ourselves. Who do we influence? Are we even noticed in our fumbling attempts to live a Godly life when there are no barriers to hold us back from doing so?

Yet Adonai has ordained that we live here, in constant danger of drowning in the sea of lies around us. We, who are gifted with wealth, and a full belly, are in far more danger than the loss of our lives.

Those martyrs-in-waiting have an easy path, and perhaps a better life. They say yes or no to life eternal, because that is the question they live in, and are faced every moment with only the simplicity of dying.

If you are raised in the faith, and have only the open choices of yes or no to Yeshua all your life, while being buttressed about with a company of Believers who hold you up day to day, and in whose love and companionship you rest, the choice between your daily life and a possible death is plain.

Here, where there is an abundance of subtle mockery and mildly open jeering, a peer pressure of conformity to small evils, and so little reward in the living of a Messianic life, is it not strange that death because of Yeshua is a thing to be longed for? To long to be so bounded about with a simple yes or no to Yeshua, and to have the comfort and companionship of a family to worry for, and not that they might slip and fall on the path they cannot see clearly, nor even know whether they could withstand a question of belief that results in only a gentle shunning.

Yet what do our young ones face as they enter the world with so much option to sin, because the penalty seems so far away? Not a clear choice between right and wrong, and a yes or no to death, but a tangle of options that all can lead to sin and away from Yeshua, unless you choose the lonely pinnacle of an open belief.

Yet we were placed here in the wealth and ease of the West for reasons we cannot know, not what the effect of our immmediate witness might be, nor whether that witness will noted, and filed away for some future death that will seem all the more lonely and painful for the loss of the life we have had so bountifully. We have instead a struggle with the unseen, moment by moment, and in danger, not of losing this life, but losing eternity.


Q

sermonindex Jul 23, 2011

Reedited for grammer

Brother I do not know if those in persecuted lands have an easier life. But I do get the sense of what you are saying. I guess in one sense it is easier for the persecuted in that the decision is more clear cut to follow Jesus. When one makes a decision to follow Christ in Iran, Eritrea, N. Korea, or Saudi Arabia or any other restricted nation that person counts, literally counts the cost. There is no easy believing in Jesus. To believe in Jesus is to go all the way and die for him. Was it not Bonhoffet who said when Christ bids a man to come follow him he bids him to come and die. The persecuted understand this. But we in the west yet to learn this. I think I read that K P Yohannan of Gospel for Asia wishes he were back in India. He says it is easier to live for Jesus there in spite of the persecution in India.

Q
Questor Jul 23, 2011

Not an easier life, since persecution often brings with it poverty, but an easier choice of how to live, with appropriate support systems in place, and a reward of intimacy both with family and community, as well as with Yeshua.

Our smaller towns have good support systems still for following the faith, and walking with Yeshua, and will in time be the first ones to stand up to the more definate persecutions of the faith. And those persecutions will come, and cause the great apostasy that is yet to come, for many with a lightweight commitment to haMeshiach will become evident.

I worry most for the pre-trib rapturists, for their churches promise them no tribulation beyond shunning or less opportunity for wealth will be their portion in future. Such a Western notion, to ignore that there are those who die daily elsewhere in the world, yet be confident that facing such a choice will never be presented to them.

sermonindex Jul 23, 2011

There is an opportunity to show our support for the persecuted. In the Current Issues section of this forum are two free Asia Bibi post. Asia Bibi is a Christian woman in Pakistan who took a stand for the Lord. She was put in jail and sentenced to be executed for blasphemy. You can go to the link and sign the petition. I did. Only takes abput two minutes. This is one way we can remember those in prison.

L
lylewise Jul 23, 2011

Martyr and Questor these are questions that deserve examining. For those fearing how scripture qualifies a true life in Christ, I would think many should be asking these same questions. So is this bit of scripture somehow nullified due to the religous freedom enjoyed in the U.S.A.? I know it is even possible to sit in church being one who was unsaved, but not knowing it, and asking this very question concerning persecution. How much more pressing should it be among those who know the truth?

The sword of religious freedom does seem to brandish two edges; one good and one bad. To worship freely should be considered a great blessing of the Almighty. However, one edge that we see consistently cutting its way through history is corrupted and in its blindness sees itself the standard. So many will look at the current state of the church in America from which they sit and see the limelight spotlighting the corruption in others while being blind in their very own vision. What Satan has conquered he need no longer attack being that which he has already defeated.

So for the most part, since religion in America enjoys such freedom, the persecution will have to come from a source other than the Govenment (at least for a while longer). What falsly believes itself Christianity should not coexist well with that which represents truth. There should be a great uncomfortableness with those who do not share the common compromise. So as scripture speaks there should be persecution in varying degrees and at varying times for those who would follow in the footsteps of Christ. Not all the churches were persecuted alike. Not all Christians were persecuted by the same people or group and not all were persecuted at the same time, but what is true is that all will be persecuted who are Christ indwelt. Not to make little of the intense persecutions of brothers and sister condemned by foreign government or religious groups bent on their demise, for Christ will richly reward those who have not retreated from such maltreatment, Yet conditions for persecution should be found in a largely religious country like our own. Christianity claims majority status in America. It was in a simialr atmosphere that Christ received his greatest persecution from religious people. Rome did to the Son of Man as Christ's fellow countrymen demanded. It may be that religious freedom for the most part enjoys the refrain of Government because of what is not being stood for. Reverse that and see what happens. It would not take long before government would begin it's effort to silence such contrarians. The true in Spirit cannot stand within or amongst a religious people and not bear some form of consternation caused by their unadulterated message of an uncorrupted Christ. That is not unless those who say they are of Christ are truly of Christ, but if one cannot discern that then evangelism is pretty much dead in America.

sermonindex Jul 24, 2011

Hi Lylewise,

You raise some good points in your post. I think the reason we do not see persecution here in America is we have been blessed with religious freedom that is still respected. Though that is slowly eroding away. I would say that any persecution a believer will exoeriene eminating from a godly walk with Christ will be personal and religious. Personal in that a believer may refuse to engage in unehical business practices on their job. Thus they are fired. They suffer because of their faith. The believer may be mocked at work. They may be passed over for promotion. All of this because of a godly walk with Christ. I have only used examples of how persecution and suffering can happen on the job.

What about religious. Well how about a pastor who tries to preach the truth in their church. The church runs them off. Or you have someone really turned on to Jesus and wants to move out for Christ. The church shuts them down. And so forth. I believe the organized church will persecute the remnant before the government does. After all was it not the moral majority of his day that pit Jesus to death.

The upshot of all this is persecution for the believer can come on many forms. Hearkens back to my original question, am I being persecuted???

sermonindex Jul 24, 2011

Questor I do agree. Come persecution time many Christians may be rethinking that pretrib rapture. I don't think pretrib fits into the persecuted church.

sermonindex Jul 24, 2011

It is amazing how the Church in America which has so much freedom is in so much bondage yet the Church in the persecuted countries have no freedom yet so much liberty.

Until the State recognized and appropriated the Church through Constantine, she was strong.

Is this not evidence that we should pray for persecution so that the Church again will rise up. The flames of persecution purify the "Church".

If praying for persecution is repugnant, we should then pray for the heart to live Godly then persecution which is promised for all those that live godly, will come.

Either way, we need persecution.

Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

When all men speak well of us, are we not false prophets?

If we truly walked as Jesus did and Paul and the other Apostles and Saints down through the ages we should be persecuted.

What can we conclude from the absence of persecution in America?

Julius

sermonindex Jul 24, 2011

Hi Julius,

I have heard from those who work in restricted countries that the persecuted are praying such for us. They are praying we will experience persecution so the American church can be purified. I agree that if we are living Christ centered lives we will have persecution in our lives.

If we would be as Paul and die daily, be crucified with Christ, then we would not fear losing our lives for Christ. The persecuted know this. God give us the grace to learn this in humility.

sermonindex Jul 24, 2011

And martyr, I guess the point I was trying to make was persecution won't come unless we live godly. (cart before the horse).

God may well interpret their prayers of persecution for us as prayers that we would be drawn to holiness and godliness.

Julius

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