Why we are losing our children

I just watched this movie and I was impressed by how it was well done. I recommend it to everyone. It basically looks at the failure of youth groups who actually usurp the biblical role of fathers in training children.

http://www.dividedthemovie.com/

Excellent and desperately needed.

I wonder why there is even a need for youth ministry. Is it just a bandaid for the problem as a whole?

StarofGod,

Indeed, many seem to think that it's better to segregate by age, since old people do not share the same interests as young people. This seems like worldly wisdom to me. What are those "interests" after all? Music? Football? The beach? Cars? Dating?

Why not redirect our focus from whatever worldly pursuits we may have to Christ? Personally, I don't go to church to set my mind on the things of the world; I go to church to set my mind on the things of God.

Also, let us not forget that whoever walks with the wise becomes wise, but the companion of fools will suffer harm.
(Proverbs 13:20) Thus, we are actually harming our children by constantly keeping them with other immature kids. Instead, they should learn from the wise.

In Christ Jesus,
Renoncer

Hum, I always find it silly to try and find away to blame something or someone for how our children turn out. Youth Ministries wouldn't have the ability to usurp a fathers role is the father was active and faithful in his role of training up his child.

Do you know why children at a certain age just go against the grain of Christianity? Why they rebel? Stick it to the man if you will? It is because kids are smart enough to see through religion, point blank. Kids want something real and tangible and honest, they see mom and dad fight all weak but then at church they just love each other sooooo much, FAKE, FONIES, LIARS, HYPOCRITES this is what is playing in the childs mind. How do I know this? because not to long ago I was a child though its been a while.

Now being a dad I face the fear of not passing on my Christian faith to my children, not so much not passing it on but under the brutal honesty of my children will they see Christ in me? What parents lack in doing isn't passing on their religion thats easy just force them to church and pray before eating a meal, from their you can simply program them to say answer to the questions What did Jesus do you for? and Why did He die?

No, Christ must get a hold of our Children just as much as he needs to get a hold of us. However the true hinderance is the insecurity of a worries parent that force feeds their children and pushes religion on them instead of taking their child in the prayer closet with them and showing them what communicating with a Holy God looks and feels like on top of the life that is produced from such acts. This is why little Johnny the good little boy slowly become the rebel without a cause, because he was never really introduced to Jesus by contact with The Lord through his parents.

Seriously to blame a youth ministry is silly because you get to be around your kid a great deal more than a youth pastor, they only get about 1 to 2 hours a week. The real damage is done at home. If you are going to blame anyone for your children being unruly wretches blame yourself and pray the Lord have mercy on you and your children.

while some are always renouncing what is going on and never telling any tales of success, i would like to share about a church i was a part of while i was mobile. i will use the term we...we have a strong training for youth leaders,we have hundreds of cell groups around the city and in every jr high and high school and in the universities here there are over 7000 youth in our 220 groups. the teachers and principles love us because we not only minister the gospel but help troubled students and failing students with free tutoring.some have even allowed us to minister in assembies with invitations at the end. these kids are on fire with the Lord and we are turning drug infested areas into Christ infested areas. get off of your high horse and get involved in making a difference in the youth of your city. the training must include how to serve in the most lowly way.(picking up trash around the schools and neighborhoods, help keeping the restrooms clean, these are things that parents are not teaching their spoiled kids these days and if you can not do the most humiliating work how are you going to minister to others )we also have intense bible training that also must be joined by dress codes that are modest and clean.not all make it in the 220i "intense training" for the youth ministers.jimp

You have hit the nail on the head: the home.

God bless,
Lisa

"Excellent and desperately needed."

AGREED!!!

See:

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=36844&forum=35&19

Savannah,
I listened to the sermon you posted on the other thread http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=621092034462
One thing the pastor said struck me in particular:
“Are we feeding the sheep, or entertaining goats in our modern church? The modern philosophy is to appeal to the flesh, and then sneak up on the youth with the Gospel. That is deceitful, and that is out of hell.”
Robert W. Reed

I agree that this is a big problem in the churches today. I often hear people apologizing for having to share the Gospel or say something that may offend the crowd. Usually, the Gospel is presented in a very carnal way, that is, in a way to appeal to the flesh so that people can “make a decision”. Such a decision is often just that: “Fleshly”, and not of God. (See John 1:12-13)

I admit that I have had to fight against these tendencies too. I have been involved in several evangelistic campaigns myself. The Lord dealt with me about being ashamed of the Gospel. He convicted me with regards to trying to make the Gospel appealing and inoffensive to the masses. Such a “Gospel” is actually stripped from its power. (1 Corinthians 1:17-18) As much as I would like more people to “respond”, the question remains, “What are they responding to?” This is a matter of trusting God at His word, and not leaning on our own understanding.
God is wiser; let us trust Him concerning the means of salvation. And yes, it requires faith.

In Christ Jesus,
Renoncer

Mguldner and Lysa,

I agree, it comes back to the home. That's the same conclusion the documentary came to. In particular, the fathers have a tremendous responsibility towards their children.

In Christ,
Renoncer

I just watched this as well. It was one of the things that in pushing me towards not being involved in the youth ministry in our church.
I would much rather see our youth in with the adults/elderly Sunday schools and Bible studies/home groups. There is soooo much wisdom there. The problem goes back to what Renoncer said about using fleshly means to appeal to people, especially youth. The youth want worldly fun and if your with the adults you can't have fun.
Our church always has outreaches to youth, especially to kids. So we have a lot of unchurched kids without parents in the church. This makes for HUGE problems. I think instead of outreaches to the kids we need outreaches to the FATHERS. I don't know about you guys, but where I live most of the churches pour TONS of time and money into youth and children's ministry and almost nothing into ministry to fathers/parents/families.

So maybe the question isn't, "Why is there youth group/ministry?" but rather "Why ISN'T there ministry to the fathers and families?"
Why DO we try to evangelize youth and children instead of fathers and mothers? I believe it's because it's less work. The children are willing to make a confession of faith (not necessarily actually being born again) where the parents are not. So it is alot easier to get numbers with kids than with adults. And it is less work.

I could say so much on this, but it has probably already been said and done at one point. And my thoughts are getting kind of discombobulated. lol

In Christ,
Veronica

Veronica,
You said, "So maybe the question isn't, 'Why is there youth group/ministry?' but rather 'Why ISN'T there ministry to the fathers and families?'

Well said. Let's equip the fathers to be spiritual leaders, as GOD called them to be. That requires time and much exhortation, but it's biblical.

In Christ,
Renoncer

I was talking with a missionary friend this weekend, and he said that when they went into villages in Africa, the women and children were turned easily unto the LORD - but it was only when the men came that there was a great awakening.

"'Why ISN'T there ministry to the fathers and families?'"

Kind of makes me think of the world and how they are so out to reach the "teenagers." Most advertisements, commercials etc is out to reach the teenagers...Another counterfeit from the devil??

" the women and children were turned easily unto the LORD - but it was only when the men came that there was a great awakening."

That was good Heartsong!

Veronica said,

"So maybe the question isn't, 'Why is there youth group/ministry?' but rather 'Why ISN'T there ministry to the fathers and families?'"

Renoncer replied,

"Well said. Let's equip the fathers to be spiritual leaders, as GOD called them to be. That requires time and much exhortation, but it's biblical."

Thanks be to God that He is raising up men and ministries to do those very things mentioned above.

Here's just one of those men and ministries I would highly recommend to you all.

http://www.spiritofelijah.com

The "Equipping Men" 11 DVD series is an excellent resource to,as Renoncer said,"...equip the fathers to be spiritual leaders, as GOD called them to be."

"Why ISN'T there ministry to the fathers and families?"

Thanks be to God that there is! It's just that in these times we must search diligently for such.

In the "About Us" link on the website you'll read these words, "The calling of God in Norm's life has given him a heart for men and their families."

If you're unfamiliar with Norm Wakefield and the ministry God has given him, "Spirit of Elijah Ministries", I'd encourage you to get familiar with him and the resources offered on the website. It's not a large ministry quantitatively speaking,but it's large qualitatively.

Check it out and you decide!

It's encouraging to know that there is a positive move to combat all those negatives!

God be praised!

We have heard Norm Wakefield speak/teach at homeschool conventions - I highly recommend his ministry as well. He really has a heart for training the fathers...

hi, in order to change the fathers you must have the fathers and you must have their attention and time. if you train the young to be good fathers you then will have greater success.jimp look over most churches and you will see how women outnumber men and if you look closly the youth do not always stay young.

Renoncer and mgulder, you make excellant points.
And yes, kids CAN see through dead, empty religion.

QUOTE: ".jimp look over most churches and you will see how women outnumber men."

Amen to that. Sad to say.