Don't critize me.

I say this with all humility and respect to this wonderful site and its members all of which I love dearly as brothers and sisters in Christ.

I know we all go through seasons and we all have stages of growth and change in our walk with Christ. But something that I have seen since day one of joining SI is the critics that at sometimes frequent the forums. I have been one of those critics at times and so again I say this to a call and response to what I believe God is calling me to.

We have all seen threads innocently and sometimes maliciously posted about a ministry or man or the times we live in, these threads quickly spin out of control and become a free for all of words that if the person or ministry it was about would be greatly wounded by such behavior, this has actually happened at least once to my knowledge.

Why are we so quick to critize? The answer is Pride. Pride elevates us just enough to take a potshot at one another or a ministry or even "the times" as we call them. But my question for the critics is What are you going to do about it? See a problem with a ministry? they don't preach the full gospel? Great now what are you going to do about it? Certainly that ministry has a telephone number or an email you could send.

Its much easier to Critize than to do something proaitive about the situation. Post something negative on a forum than to go do something constructive.

I am not saying all critics aren't involved in ministry, but from experience the ones that critized the harshes and most were those that were spectators.

So really What are you doing about it? I know of one thread that very well was innocently posted about the Holiness of the times decreasing, Awesome Are they doing something to counteract said corruption?

This applies to me as well, What am I going to do when I have a complaint or critism? I am going to number one pray about it and number two if it is in my ability to change then change it and number three if not in my ability to change the situation I am going to exhaust every avenue in which I have to see a change.

I don't want to come off as complaining because that's not my aim, my aim however is to see action where action can be taken.

I understand completely what you are saying. My main point being is do half the people that critize on here ever send the Joel Oslteens letters or emails stating why they are wrong rather than simply bash them over an internet forum? That really and honestly is my real concern, other than sounding the trumpet what else can be done and if something can be done why is it or why isn't it? In some cases I feel people are just blowing their own horn to be heard.

Sis Jesus-is-God,

I too pray the same, and I am not against protecting the church what so ever but I believe there are some ministries that receive critism while never or hardly ever hearing about why or what the critics problem is. Again my concern is does the critic make an effort to change something or inform someone other than an internet forum?

Matthew 18 is pretty clear on what we need to do if we have an ought with our brother whether the person has been warned or not by respected ministries. If its something you have a problem with then its your responsibility to go to that man or woman and seek reconciliation.

Deu 9:13 \t \t
Furthermore the LORD spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it [is] a stiffnecked people:
Deu 9:14 \t \t
Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they.
Deu 9:15 \t \t
So I turned and came down from the mount, and the mount burned with fire: and the two tables of the covenant [were] in my two hands.
Deu 9:16 \t \t
And I looked, and, behold, ye had sinned against the LORD your God, [and] had made you a molten calf: ye had turned aside quickly out of the way which the LORD had commanded you.
Deu 9:17 \t \t
And I took the two tables, and cast them out of my two hands, and brake them before your eyes.
Deu 9:18 \t \t
And I fell down before the LORD, as at the first, forty days and forty nights: I did neither eat bread, nor drink water, because of all your sins which ye sinned, in doing wickedly in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

I had come under conviction of the Holy Spirit.
I was an Adulterer.
I had played the harlot.
Then I saw the wickedness in me as was horrified.

I had treated God shamefully
I wanted health, prosperity, miracles,
from Him. I wanted
the world, not Him.
I praised Him with my lips,
but my heart was far from him.

I was sick to my stomach
and could not walk straight or stand upright.

I was to attend a popular conference
where healings, and signs and wonders, were expected.

I prayed to God if he wanted me to go to the conference to warn them about the dangers of the teaching,
I had already paid for the ticket.

He said do not go out there.
He said to pray for the people.
He also said that he was going to destroy the leaders
for leading others astray.

God's Wrath is about to be poured out upon the wicked.
It is time to mourn.
It is not the time for laughing.
Jesus Christ is coming back soon.
He is at the very gates.
Repent.

mguldner said:

Matthew 18 is pretty clear on what we need to do if we have an ought with our brother whether the person has been warned or not by respected ministries. If its something you have a problem with then its your responsibility to go to that man or woman and seek reconciliation.

Wasn't Jesus talking about Christians in that passage? Seriously, does anyone think that people like Rob Bell and Joel Osteen are Christians? Also, wasn't this passage for people who've sinned against you? Joel Osteen hasn't sinned against anyone here that *I* know of. So this doesn't apply. I would say that 1 Corinthians 5 (specifically verses 11-13) is more applicable.
"But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES."
Or how about 2 Timothy 3:2-9?
"For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; AVOID such men as these.
6 For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses,7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith. 9 But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, just as Jannes’s and Jambres’s folly was also."
Or what about Romans 16:17-18?
"Now I beseech you, brethren, MARK them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and AVOID them. (we can't avoid them if we don't mark them.) 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."

Don't get me wrong, I agree that there has been a lot of criticizing. Instead of just marking and avoiding, we've gone on and on about them. We MUST know who the wolves are. But lets not continually dwell on it and bash them. There's a difference between showing in the Scripture why they are false teachers and then continuing on so it becomes, I don't know, hate mail or something.
I agree with Krispy that we ought to set the trumpet to our mouths. But lets make sure we're showing in Scripture why they are false teachers or false prophets and not just spouting our own opinions.
Perhaps we would think Mr. Washer is "critical" here???
http://youtu.be/iWMrKcFKqzk

One who sounds the trumpet should have exhausted their means of warning the person they wish to toot the horn about. It would be similar of me hearing something about you and then going publically and calling you a terrible person and apostate. Wouldn't it make sense to first go to you and say hey what's the deal with this? Many who critize are the ones that don't even do research on the individual other than a incriminating youtube video that very well could be taken out of its original context.

Mr.Washer isn't my example, but Christ is, and I am sure Paul Washer bases his rebuke on fact and information rather speculation. This is the critism I have problems with, a rebuke must come from Truth, truth of the Word and truth of the situation.

I am uncertain its exactly wise to cast judgment on Joel O or Rob Bell and say they aren't Christians to them they wholeheartedly believe they are. God is their judge in the end not you or I.

Many who critize are the ones that don't even do research on the individual other than a incriminating youtube video that very well could be taken out of its original context.

I figured that Paul Washer wasn't your example. It just seems that so often on this forum we refuse to take a word of, I don't know, warning or something from someone on here and we will often take one from a preacher we've listened to. I too hope that Mr. Washer bases his rebuke on fact, but are we willing to check that? Probably not, because we're too lazy. I just find it ironic that we so often will say "this many preachers on SI say this guy's bad so he must be!" But if a forum member says it we cry criticism. (I am not saying you are doing this. But it IS something I have observed at times.)

So where does 2 Timothy 3:2-9 and Romans 16:17-18 fit in? Are we supposed to go through Matthew 18 (confront them one on one, then bring in 2 witness, then take it to the church) first and THEN mark and avoid them? I find this topic somewhat conflicting. Because it seems that one deals with someone who says they are a brother differently then how we deal with false teachers and false prophets. I would think this is because teachers have more influence. But I don't know. I am open to instruction on this.

I am uncertain its exactly wise to cast judgment on Joel O or Rob Bell and say they aren't Christians to them they wholeheartedly believe they are. God is their judge in the end not you or I.

However, it was probably presumptuous of me to say that. So I do truly and honestly ask for your forgiveness. I don't want to be critical, but I also don't want to be a namby pamby when it comes to false teachers. I suppose there is a balance there somewhere. It is just difficult to find. I pray we all can find that balance.

mguldner,

I understand what you are saying. I have been delivered from possibly one of the ministries you speak of, so from my perspective I guess it depends on what is really behind some of these possible false teachers etc.

In my case I believe that the one that I was delivered from is operating under another spirit, a demonic one. If that is the case - then I do not think it is wise to go and confront them, or have anything to do with them. 1) Because I have a weakness for this influence and am susceptible to man's persuasion. 2) Because I know the Lord is wanting me to flee from anything to do with that ministry and its teachings, so confronting them wouldn't be fleeing. 3) The spirit is demonic and I know the word of the Lord for me is stay clear away from anything that is demonic and dangerous.

I could aliken it to - if you found yourself in a situation with a very flirty promiscuious man/woman that you found you had a great weakness for. YOu have a history of weakness with attraction to the flesh of this sort. What would you do? I would believe that the best answer would be to flee from this man/woman and not engage them, based on your weakness. (I am not saying that they should not have the gospel presented to them, but rather leave this up to someone who is specifically called to ministering to these people, not those that they have a weakness for them and that spirit).

This is the case with me and countless others who know this ministry is practising and operating in the demonic.

So what I am saying is that it is not a case of reconciliation. In my case I did not have a personal relationship with the ministry I was delivered from. They are global empire and it was through their books/writings/music/teachings etc available for download through their ministry that opened me up to that influence (praise the Lord they never laid hands on me).

Most of the cases are not a disgreement with doctrine or a relationship break down BUT rather exposing us to demonic influences.

I say run, and flee and pray for them on your accord to the Lord.

EDIT - I gather that you are talking about ministries that most likely aren't the ones that I have been delivered from. But just be careful because if you blanket that no-one should critise any teachers then people may not test the really dangerous and demonic ones based on your argument.

Through Him only,
Sherid

If our defense of truth is not accompanied by MANY genuine tears flowing from a Christ controlled heart, it may be a good indication that our motivation is the kind that will be condemned by God on the day when our hearts are exposed before all.

Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
Rom 9:2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

Phil 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Phil 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Luc 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
Luc 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

Charity …. Hopeth all things … I Cor. 13:7.

Its likely I am wrong eh? And I understand and see what you wiser saints are saying in light of the topic. I'm young in age and in the Lord and lack discernment and experience. I have no problem with disagreeing with people I do that daily. But its always my prayer that I remain in a spirit of humility rather a spirit of critism and this is really what I am trying to address.

Thank you for sharing the scriptures they were enlightening to the topic at hand. I appreciate your wisdom on the matter. :)