MacArthur on Beer, Bohemianism, and True Christian Liberty

"...no symbol of sin’s bondage is more seductive or more oppressive than booze."

Encouraging "the recreational use of intoxicants", in "church-sponsored activities" could hardly be called childish.

It is a mature evil.

Well, dear friends, you know that some men can do to the glory of God what to other men would be sin. And notwithstanding what brother Pentecost has said, I intend to smoke a good cigar to the glory of God before I go to bed to-night.

If anybody can show me in the Bible the command, 'Thou shalt not smoke,' I am ready to keep it; but I haven't found it yet. I find ten commandments, and it's as much as I can do to keep them; and I've no desire to make them into eleven or twelve.

The fact is, I have been speaking to you about real sins, not about listening to mere quibbles and scruples. At the same time, I know that what a man believes to be sin becomes a sin to him, and he must give it up. 'Whatsoever is not of faith is sin' [Rom. 14:23], and that is the real point of what my brother Pentecost has been saying.

Why, a man may think it a sin to have his boots blacked. Well, then, let him give it up, and have them whitewashed. I wish to say that I'm not ashamed of anything whatever that I do, and I don't feel that smoking makes me ashamed, and therefore I mean to smoke to the glory of God.

-- C H Spurgeon

It is puerile and irresponsible for any pastor to encourage the recreational use of intoxicants—especially in church-sponsored activities...

And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, Deuteronomy 14:24-26

I agree with the general gist of the article regarding the attempt to win the world be imitating it, but it seems the article is taking a stance on alcohol that exceeds the Bible.

For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! Luke 7:33-34

Jesus wasn't labelled a "gluttonous man" and "winebibber" for eating oatmeal with water.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. ... Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. Colossians 2:16-17,23

We should be known for the presence and fruits of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Man instituted ordinances will dry a man's spiritual life as quickly as an excess of alcohol (or food, electronic entertainment, etc)

PassingThru

* Edited: Corrected Typo.

Indeed we should always be looking to the welfare of others when it comes to our liberties and we should recognize and not neglect the problems of substance abuse around us. I should think the Spirit would lead us in that sensitivity.

We should also realize the enormous danger of a counterfeit righteousness. Being that which comes by way of the flesh promoting a law that is man made.

It would prove a great deception to deny the Lord's supper due to the contents of the cup that we should all drink together.

I think a quick look at the reasons for wine making in ancient cultures can be beneficial in understanding why God did not prohibit wine drinking and why today it should be considered a sin to drink.

Wine making in ancient times was for the use of preserving the juice. Just as the grapes and figs were preserved by drying them and making raisin and fig cakes, and meet was preserved by salting it, so also the juice was preserved by making it into wine ( the process of fermentation ). It was a principle of home economy rather than a way of indulgence. However with wine, since excessive drinking lead to loss of soberness God forbade drinking in excess.

With today’s life style it is hard for us to understand the limited options the ancients had with regard to preserving the juice which lead to wine making. Today we have freezers and refrigerators, and through trade we have access to fruits and vegetables year round. But that was not the case with them. Wine had to be made not only for the preservation of the juice but also for preserving of other fruits and vegetables in pickling processes. Their very life was dependant on wine making. Just as salt was so necessary to preserve fish and meat, fermentation and wine making was for preserving the juice and other fruits and vegetables.
If they did not, they would starve.
Furthermore, wine in this case was more important then salt because while they had a year long access to catles and fish and did not really need to preserve them , they did Not have the same access to fruits and vegetables year round due to their climate.
Also water was not always available and wine was a substitute for some of the lack of water.

To try to make an argument for drinking from the Old Testament or even the New Testament that was written 2000 years ago and is considered ancient world still would be similar to try to make an argument for incest or polygamy from the Old Testament. It was a necessity and God who does not burden man with more than what he can bear had allow it for a season.

Here are some valid points to someone who is considering a drink.

Unlike in the ancient time when wine was made in homes, today most wine is made by big corporations . Drinking in this case is supporting an industry that caused the destruction of many families.

Drinking today is costly, while the reason for making wine in the past was built on the principle of good home economy and stewardship.

Most addicts only wanted one drink, but sadly one lead to the other.

Wines and alcoholic beverages today are most likely to lead to addiction due to the high alcohol content they use today as oppose to what people used in ancient times.

Today we know of many other ways of preserving the juice besides fermentation.

Finally ask yourself why you want to drink. If drinking is risky, costly, not necessary, and may offend your brother, could it be that you are under bondage to the desires of the flesh.

I was listening to Dr. Brown the other day and he made the same statement that I noticed on my own. Nowhere in the Bible is their a call for abstinence regarding alcoholic drink.

There is a clear call to avoid 'strong drink' i.e. rum, vodka, gin etc. though.

As someone who had a major drinking problem I certainly don't advocate drinking if you have had a problem with it but overall there isn't a clear cut prohibition to alcohol.

Additionally, to claim that it was a cultural thing due to the lack of preservation is simply not true either. Look at Jesus' first miracle. The chief of ceremonies told him that usually the best wine was brought out first but this wine was better than the first stuff. People would bring out good wine and then bring out the cheap stuff after the people had already been drinking because people who had already been drinking could care less how good the wine was. Additionally, note that Jesus created more than 300 liters of it.

"Nowhere in the Bible is their a call for abstinence regarding alcoholic drink.

There is a clear call to avoid 'strong drink' i.e. rum, vodka, gin etc. though."

Although Ephesians 5:18 says do not be drunk with wine.

According to the greek dictionary, the word 'drunk' means 'to intoxicate'. Everything from beer to hard liqours are called intoxicants, because drinking them does exactly that, it intoxicates.

And the warnings that I remember hearing about drinking and driving say 'impairment' that is, intoxication, begins at the first drink.

This may be incorrect, so someone correct me if it is, but I also remember hearing that wine was consumed in place of clean drinking water also, that is as a substitute.

If that is the case, it would not make sense to tell people to avoid it altogether. However, for a person in the modern World, there is no normal nescessity to drink alchol of any kind, except by choice.

And the example of the Lord Jesus providing wine at a wedding is just that, God providing wine at a wedding. The peculiar and obvious occasion for providing wine(at a wedding) says nothing else about drinking it for recreation or for Christians in general.

At issue here is not whether anyone is at liberty to drink alchol in all its forms on any particular occasion, or as a matter of discreet and private liberty.

At issue here is whether this is somehtihng that Christians aught to be taking as a right.

Christian liberty is the freedom to be holy.

It is the capacity to do what is right by God and for others, out of love. That is Christian Liberty. And anything that distorts liberty defined that way into something that means freedom of choice or prefrence is just that, a distortion. Christians are at liberty, to choose what is best for others, above themselves.

Paul's injunction to let no one judge you in meat or drink has nothing to do with consuming alchohol at public gatherings. The passage there is clearly about the dietary laws and restrictions of the Old Covenant and it is those things that the Christian is free from and to let no one stand in judgement over them about.

But would Paul let others judge him as regards other things that he was free in his own conscience about?

Absolutely.

His rule, he said, was does it build up, and is it out of love.

Everything was lawfull to him. But not everything would build up himself and others.

And so, if what HE WAS EATING caused HIS BROTHER to STUMBLE...

HE WOULD NOT EAT IT SO LONG AS THE WORLD STOOD.

You folks know better.

As for cigar smoking and appeal of famous preachers that smoked them:

Tobaco is a weed.

Weeds are from the curse.

If one famous man was free in his own mind to smoke weeds to the glory of God that was his buisness.

If he felt the need to defend the freedom he had in his own mind publicly, it was no longer a liberty, he was fighting for his percieved right.

Liberties(I mean the word as it used by others, that is, personal prefrence or choice) that are contended for in public disputes are no longer liberties, they are heresies.

Hi Chris,

You wrote:

"According to the greek dictionary, the word 'drunk' means 'to intoxicate'. Everything from beer to hard liqours are called intoxicants, because drinking them does exactly that, it intoxicates.

And the warnings that I remember hearing about drinking and driving say 'impairment' that is, intoxication, begins at the first drink."

Why are you mixing secular definitions regarding what constitutes 'impairment' with biblical truth? There is no confusion in the scripture concerning this, it's very easy to spot someone who is drunk, there's no ambiguity whatsoever.

Yes, I'm very familiar with Ephesians 5 where is says "don't be drunk with wine" notice it does not say 'don't drink wine at all' in fact it doesn't say this anywhere in the Bible. There are many scriptures that speak of being drunk and abusing wine though (Proverbs "Wine is a brawler").

In 1 Timothy 3 Paul gives the 3 different standards that Christians fall into one way or the other, here they are:

"Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full[a] respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.

8 In the same way, deacons[b] are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. "

Elder (overseer) = Not given to drunkenness
Deacon = Not much wine
Everyone else = No direction given except Ephesians 5 (don't be drunk with wine) and Thessalonians (nor drunkards) as well.

We would both agree on what a 'drunkard' is I think.

Additionally you wrote:

"This may be incorrect, so someone correct me if it is, but I also remember hearing that wine was consumed in place of clean drinking water also, that is as a substitute."

You are correct here, Paul told Timothy not to only drink water but to also drink some wine in what appears to be a chronic stomach ailment that Timothy was experiencing.

Hi Chris,

One more thing, you wrote:

"However, for a person in the modern World, there is no normal nescessity to drink alchol of any kind, except by choice."

Nor was there any "normal necessity" to drink wine at the wedding where Jesus turned the water into wine. It was already pure water, He's so wonderful.

"And the example of the Lord Jesus providing wine at a wedding is just that, God providing wine at a wedding. The peculiar and obvious occasion for providing wine(at a wedding) says nothing else about drinking it for recreation or for Christians in general."

Note what you said here:

"says nothing else about drinking it for recreation or for Christians in general."

What is drinking wine at a wedding? It's clearly for recreation, in fact it's almost the textbook definition of 'recreational use'. It wasn't grape juice either, look up the use of the word 'wine' there in Strongs or Vines, it means fermented grapes.

Brother, read the Word as it is, not through the lens of religious dogma.

I struggled with so much legalistic garbage that I believed due to the teachings of men who were in error and it bound me to the core, it's a curse. Thank God He did not leave me there, I had to go back to step one and let Him teach me from scratch, all of that other crap that I believed was rubbish.

Hi Martyr:

You wrote:

"Want to speak of drinking and driving? If my Christian liberty results in the causing injury to others where is this Christ centered?"

Most reasonable people understand the difference between drinking a glass of wine and getting into a car drunk which is clearly against the law. The book of Romans is clear regarding following the laws of the societies in which we live.

Hi Blaine:

"What of those delivered out of alcoholism? Are you going to drink a beer in their presence."

No, just like Paul says that would be wrong. Out of love this should never be done.

"You drink beer and wine that opens you up to the demonic. Even smoking can lead to marajuana and that to an altered state of reality and hello demonic."

Can you please do me a favor and quote me a chapter and verse for your belief here? (hint: there isn't one)

I work with medical marijuana patients that suffer from all kinds of pain, the plant helps them deal with the pain. Surely there are people who abuse the law and do it to smoke weed but there are also people who use it for legitimate medical purposes. After speaking with many of them, they feel unwelcome in ANY church due to this ridiculous fallacy. Many of them feel a tremendous amount of guilt due to their LEGAL use of a plant that God created (He created everything on the Earth and NOTHING that He created is unclean). The hypocrisy that amazes me is many churches could care less whether someone takes oxycontin, vicodin or any other hard core narcotic yet medical MJ users feel unwelcome. Amazing hypocrisy huh? Jesus talked more about hypocrisy than any other subject.

The ambivalent attitude of some towards alcohol consumption just about angers me....

Like JIG said, no one sets out to be come an alcoholic when they take an occasional drink...

I get angry because of what alcohol does to a pregnant woman's child. To suggest that an alcoholic female will give up alcohol to protect her child has absolutely no sense of reality!!!!!!!!!

My BIL and his wife adopted two beautiful little girls in the Ukraine years ago. They had them for several years when they became aware they are victims of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome!!! If you do not know what this is, I suggest you educate yourself before you come back here and justify alcohol use!!! Anyhow, my BIL and his wife have spent thousands to try to help these girls. The oldest has left home and for all practical purposes will likely be homeless for the rest of her life unless she can find a man to shack up with, and she goes through men like some do a gallon of ice cream. She is also suicidal, has attacked her mom with knives...her dad told her she had to leave, that his wife does not have to live with this fear.

These nieces carry a strong resentment towards their birth mom for drinking while pregnant with them because of the problems this afflicted upon them.

The younger girl will always be limited in how she can care for herself. She is very good with animals - they are her children. But she suffers from mental disabilities ALL BECAUSE HER MOM DRANK ALCOHOL WHILE SHE WAS CARRYING HER!

AND then there is drug use and what does it do to a fetus when the mother abuses them? A month ago my nephew and his wife adopted a baby boy who was addicted because the mom was a drug abuser. He had to go through withdrawal and be drug free before he was allowed to leave the hospital!

Let me tell you, you who work to justify alcohol use, go into the gutter, and check out these victims and the pain they inflict upon their families! GO! Alcohol use has caused more grief then anything else! Men abuse their wives and children, mothers birth children with birth defects and then the state has to foot the bill to care for them!! Get your heads out of the sand and get real!

Ya hear?

The level at which a person gets drunk differs from person to person as well. So, for arguments sake, lets say that someone has developed alcohol tolerance to the point that they can down a bottle of whiskey in an hour. (Maybe not possible, but this is hypothetical anyway.) Now since he can do that without getting drunk does that make it okay? From a health stand point the answer is clearly "no". If you did that often your liver would be shot real quick. So there comes a point when it doesn't even matter if you're drunk or not for it to be bad. Clearly that is abusing the body that God gave you. And ginnyrose brought up a good point about all the suffering it causes.

The thing that bothers me, is that everyone can get up in arms over alcohol and yet SUGAR does the EXACT same things to your liver. Because alcohol IS sugar. (Makes me wonder if Fetal Alcohol Syndrome could be caused by mass amounts of soda pop as well? If that's the case why doesn't anyone get up in arms over pop consumption???) And I know people who drink a 2 liter bottle of Mt. Dew EVERY DAY. THAT is ruining their liver. But that is more of a heath issue than a moral one, I guess.

I think it just boils down to addiction. You can rage all you want about alcohol addiction, but don't be one-sided. There are lots of addictions a lot of people don't even know about. Sugar being one of the main ones. IT is as addictive as COCAINE. So if we're going to condemn one addiction, lets condemn them all and at least be consistent.