homosexuals and coming out

I know I posted another thread to this but I cannot find it and there is no search engine so it forces me to create a new post for it.

I recently saw a short documentary about Ricky Martin and him coming out declaring himself to be homosexual. He said it felt set free after it made a posting of it online and said it was as if he had slapped hands with God. It seemed you could see this 'joy' in his eyes as well.

It got my mind running a bit. I think we probably all know of at least one person during the course of our life who was homosexual or was probably going to become a homosexual later in life. It got me wondering what is causing this stuff to happen?

I told my wife that I wondered, the bible says homosexuality is sin yet there are even churches out there dedicated to those who are homosexuals. So then how does the church know whether or when God judges this sin? Do we wait for a Sodom type of destruction? Will we eventually see some disease run rampant among homosexuals? Will anything become of it?

Yet, having asked this question, the same should be asked of adulterers and fornicators. Is the judgmeent of God on this sin something apart from what the reaping and sowing is doing in the midst of the sin?

Yet, my main question is on homosexuality.
I also have an uncle who is homosexual. He sings in a choir at his church. I haven't been told what church it is but the area that he said it was in there is a homosexual church there. During a recent funeral of my cousins son 2 church people from his church were there and I got to meet them. 2 ladies, one of which was fully a butch. Yet, I ask myself, is there a judgment of God that comes upon those who practice this and if so, will our eyes know it?

I hope this makes sense?

Deadn asked:

"It got me wondering what is causing this stuff to happen?"

Forty-one years ago Larry Christiansen wrote a book titled "The Christian family". In it he addressed this question, although back then the problem was not as prevalent as today. Or, at least people were not as bold and public as now.

As I recall, his explanation is that with the increase in immodesty you will see a rise in homosexuality. Males become overstimulated by what is exposed by females in that they eventually lose interest in females and turn to same gender...make sense without going into more detail? This would explain the male's perversion...am not sure about the females but I suspect it has to do with them being promiscuous with males. Engaging in recreational sex damages a female emotionally. Physical intimacy effects a female emotionally differently then it does a male.

Anyhow, this (about homosexuality) is what was said 41 years ago - don't now what the experts would say today.

What exactly was Sodom and Gomorrah punished for? One response could be, “Sodom was punished for the sexual abominations it committed.” Granted, I understand why we jump to this conclusion so quickly, the activity of the men in the city was so obstinately rapacious towards the very angels of God, strange flesh indeed! And while there is truth to this general observation, it is not the whole truth. This is a passage of scripture in dire need of commentary from God himself. Chapters eighteen and nineteen of Genesis do not offer it in spite of great want.

The word of the Lord came to Ezekiel, we read in chapter 16:49-50 the commentary from God on the scenario at Sodom. “Behold this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.” It is strikingly clear from this passage that God had a view of Sodom we do not so quickly gather from the passages in Genesis. As is so often the case with scripture, we really need to rightly handle God’s whole word, and not jump to the first conclusion we draw. Here we see that our first impressions are only interlaced with partial truth. The whole truth is far worse! Pride…hedonism, and lack of compassion upon the unfortunate preceded abomination. The abomination was only the full expression of Sodom's initial sins. All over the media, the internet, and from pulpits Christians are decrying homosexuality as the greatest sin. In no way am I saying it was not a great sin; however, I am saying that we need to pull the tree out of our own eye and realize that we have been attacking the tip of the iceberg with a machete, while below the placid surface dwells this lurking monstrosity of iniquity. Upon which many ships are being wrecked 2. They litter the ocean floor in a jagged watery mausoleum.

I beg that we would hear Gods heart. We need to repent; we need to take the log out of our own eye. Judgment begins in the house of God, not outside of it. Are we hedonistic in all of our pursuits? Are we filling endless hours consuming idle mediocrity? Have we forgotten to give to the cause and plight of the poor? Do we stand in the gap through prayer as much as we attempt to legislate our morality? Daniel is a man of whom the Bible mentions no sin or iniquity yet what was his prayer filled with? Repentance! Daniel pleaded Gods forgiveness for the iniquity of his people, he begged God to turn His anger away from His children, and away from Jerusalem. He was an intercessor, a man who stood in the gap, a man whom we all could learn a lot from. And certainly he was not a man pointing fingers outside himself but rather, upon his knees he took upon himself the sins of his people. This is the attitude most like our Lord, who was silent before his accusers, cognizant of the fact there was no excuse for the sin he was about to take upon himself for the sake of all those who would call upon his name.

There may be an answer in all this somewhere as to the "why this is happening" question.

Art Katz said in one of his sermons that he felt the blame for the present condition of the world could be placed at the feet of the church. Judgment begins in the house of God...

Areadymind

although you didn't give me a direct answer to my question you did do something else that is almost as good. The subject of why Sodom was destroyed. I only briefly mentioned Sodom in my original post just as a history thing but I really like what you brought up about the history behind why it was destroyed. It is true that we as humans tend to gravitate towards things we like and stay away from things we don't like. THis is true in the church and with preachers. Preach on something you like and stay away keeping an unbalanced approach on issues.

Ginnyrose, what you brought up is a facinating thing. Yeah, I can see something taking shape there yet if I sought info from the psychological association I probably would not find the answer. I wonder, should I drop the question to Exodus Intl and see what they also say about it?

I agree with what Areadymind said. I would also add that it's possible that their homosexuality were a result of the things mentioned in Ezekiel 16:49-50. We see in Romans 1 that when people refuse to worship God He gives them over to their depraved desires and they become homosexuals. This isn't an easy answer to hear. And it's one most people don't want to hear. But it's what Scripture says.
Romans 1:18-28
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain (obvious) to them, because God has made it plain (obvious) to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile (vanity) and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.

You would not believe how many homeschooled kids I know, who were raised in godly homes, but they refused to worship God and now they are coming out saying they are homosexual. It grieves me greatly to see this happening. Ezekiel 16:49-50 might as well be describing America in general and the church and her individuals in particular. As Areadymind said, we need to be asking those questions. As individuals and as a corporate church body.

Deadn wrote:

"I wonder, should I drop the question to Exodus Intl and see what they also say about it?"

Please do! And come back and tell us what they said. I would love to hear their take on this issue!

ginnyrose

There is a search engine for the site, top of the page just under the main banner, its a text link and so semihard to find it says By Search. I use it often.

And in response to the post ALL Sin has Judgment coming to it, anyone Not in Christ will feel the Sting of Death and then enter Death Eternal. I never understood why there was such a great focus on Homosexuals when straight men a great deal being Christian lust with their eyes at women isn't that just as bad? and wont it receive equal judgment?

God Bless,
Matthew

Homosexuality is a perversion to be sure. I am not sure one can make a blanket statement and say it is always due to being controlled by a demon, but I agree with Ginny (I think she said this) that when one opens himself or herself up to sexual immorality then there is definitely an open door to these kinds of temptations. Ultimately it is simply sin, and I think the reason we see it becoming more open is the societal acceptance and even promotion of this sin. I notice in Genesis that the thoughts of man's heart was on evil continually. If you allow the thoughts of your heart to go there, it is but a fulfillment of those thoughts that leads to the deed itself. I know of one young lady around 15 or 16 who was being "approached" by a girl at work of similar age. Ultimately she allowed this girl to sow so many seeds in her heart and mind that she ran away from home to live with this girl and her family who apparently accept this sin and approve of their daughters "relationship". Satan is a destroyer and he will use whatever avenue of weakness he can take advantage of.

As to judgment, that can open a can of worms, but I will give my opinion. Certainly the world deserves judgment for all of the sins that are being committed. But then again, apart from the blood of Jesus I also deserve the same judgment. I am so glad that God dealt with me in grace and mercy and tugged at my heart instead of giving me what I deserved. I believe God is dealing with man in this manner right now. Although the homosexual deserves hell-fire, he or she is given a window of grace to repent and turn to Christ as Christ loves them just as much as He loves me. Really my sin is no less heinous. Homosexuals will suffer the natural physical, mental, and emotional consequences of their sin as we all do. Think of the sin you have committed and I am sure you can also point to very negative consequences. However I do believe that the judgment on all sin is coming soon and may even be at the door without us realizing it. So no, I do not believe the judgment on this sin right now is anything apart from the reaping of the sowing that is going on. But I do believe that the day of the wrath of the Lord is coming very soon.

And in response to the post ALL Sin has Judgment coming to it, anyone Not in Christ will feel the Sting of Death and then enter Death Eternal. I never understood why there was such a great focus on Homosexuals when straight men a great deal being Christian lust with their eyes at women isn't that just as bad? and wont it receive equal judgment?

I agree that often it seems that Christians point the finger (if you will) at homosexuality and miss things like heterosexual lust, pornography and adultery. (Or the sex slave trade.) Or even divorce for that matter. Maybe this comes from the fact that homosexuality is specifically called an abomination before God. I know there are some other things that are called abominations, but is all sin considered an abomination? (I should really look these things up before I post...)
It also seems to me that sin gets different punishments depending on the degree. Jesus said that men would be judged according to their deeds. That seems to imply that some will be punished more severely. (Of course you'll still be in hell if your an unbeliever, so it won't be "nice" or anything like that...) He also said that hypocrites would receive "greater condemnation" (Matthew 23:14, Mark 12:40, Luke 2047). The Greek word for condemnation is "krima" (Strong's number 2917) and means "a decree, judgments, judgment, condemnation of wrong, the decision (whether severe or mild) which one passes on the faults of others, in a forensic sense the sentence of a judge, the punishment with which one is sentenced, condemnatory sentence, penal judgment, sentence; a matter to be judicially decided, a lawsuit, a case in court." So it seems that their sin is worse than others. I don't think that God would give everyone the same punishment. But I don't know.

I have no doubts that homosexuals will be judged someday. (Along with heterosexual adulterers, liars and thieves, etc.) But what I am saying is that it IS a judgment. It says it right there in Romans 1 that whose who refuse to worship God, God gives them over to their evil desires to do what ought not be done. This is exactly what happened to Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4. He didn't worship God, so God gave him over to his evil desires and he became as a beast. "It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10:31) Whether you're a believer or not.

Amen Veronica! Good word dear Sister! Keep sharing His Truth.

Homosexuality is a sin just like stealing, killing, lying, backbiting and so on....

this coming age will bring homosexuality as a new challenge to Christianity not because it is a special sin or there is something that we have "missed" throughout the ages as some homosexual churches want the world to think but because homosexuality is becoming a civil rights movement just like African Americans with Pastor King (a Godsend, unlike the LGBT movement).

Homosexuality is being overexposed at the moment because it has an agenda to push, which will be accomplished and homosexuals will have their "freedom" one of these days at the expense of Christianity, which is fine nothing any real man of God isnt ready for.

There isnt anything complicated about what is going on, it is simply the world and the devil doing what they do best, sinning.

I believe that this has happened because of the lack of concentration on Jesus and the overflow of doctrines and churches pushing their own agendas instead of teaching people how to develop a deeper relationship with Christ in love and obedience - a problem people rant on and on about on these forums.

Homosexuality is Sin and only one person can get rid of sin...whether people are born homosexual, become homosexual or do it for kicks and giggles...it doesnt matter, just liek any sinner they have to repent and come to an understanding and a relationship with God.

Just put on ure helmets run to the front line spot that God has for you and get ready to be flaked by this "new" movement and do what we do best - pray (without ceasing off course..hehe) :) the world for the most part sucks - Jesus told us so. and remember sin is sin

Sis, the Word calls Sin and abomination in general Homosexuality doesn't get special treatment they will all be cast into hellfire for their wickedness.

It also seems to me that sin gets different punishments depending on the degree. Jesus said that men would be judged according to their deeds. That seems to imply that some will be punished more severely.

This refering to the Good deeds given to us from the Lord not our good and bad deeds, there is no biblical proof that hell has levels of severity. Unless Im mistaken in which I will gladly submit to scripture :)

Proverbs 15:7 "The lips of the wise disperse knowledge [sifting it as chaff from the grain]; not so the minds and hearts of the self-confident and foolish.

8The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination, hateful and exceedingly offensive to the Lord, but the prayer of the upright is His delight!(A)

9The way of the wicked is an abomination, extremely disgusting and shamefully vile to the Lord, but He loves him who pursues righteousness (moral and spiritual rectitude in every area and relation). (AMP)

The entire way of the wicked is Rebellion and so its all considered an abomination sexual immorality is just that no matter if its Lusting with the eyes or Homosexuality.

Ezekiel 11:18 "And when they return there, they shall take away from it all traces of its detestable things and all its abominations (sex impurities and heathen religious practices)."

Revelations 21:27 "But nothing that defiles or profanes or is unwashed shall ever enter it, nor anyone who commits abominations (unclean, detestable, morally repugnant things) or practices falsehood, but only those whose names are recorded in the Lamb's Book of Life."

There is 115 times Abomination is used in the scripture in the Amplified translation a great deal of them refering not to homosexuality but Idol worship, which in the times of the Israelites one of those idols was Ashteroth ie the Worship of Lust and the Flesh, their priest and pristess would sleep with the worshipers as an act of worship to this god. Whatever God sees as vile and disguising is an abomination to God and SIN is just that.

You likely quote homosexuality as an abomination because it is the one that is mostly quoted by Christians in rebuttal to why its wrong, but AH we are caught ALL SIN is an abomination to God if ALL Sin wasn't an Abomination to God then surely He could stand some of it in His presents but His Holiness doesn't allow it.

Many men that I know of will quickly point the finger at the homosexual with an accusing spirit just like the Pharisee who wanted the heat off of their sin rather than be honest and repent of their own sexual Immorality. Am I saying Homosexuality is okay? BY NO Means but what I am saying is we should treat is all as it is Sin which God hates with a burning passion.

Thanks for posting that brother Krispy, it definitely makes sense, so homosexuality is a measuring of God Judgment? Or at least a sign of judgment?

If so the only question I have then is will this sin receive a more severe punishment on judgment day, IF so please point me to some scriptures that would indicate this.

KrispyKrittr wrote:
...homosexuality is described in scripture as a sin that society turns to and accepts when God has given them over to a reprobate mind.

When the Bible describes God turning sinners over to reprobate minds it doesnt describe "backbiting". It graphically describes homosexuality and lesbianism.

All of those who God does not save will go to hell, but to treat homosexuality as if it is just another sin in a long list of sins is unbiblical. It is a sign, a curse. It is a sign that God is judging a people and giving them what they want.

Thats the Bible speaking... not me. Accept it. It's reality.

2) and we know that God’s judgment against those who commit such sins is in accordance with the truth and 3) you who pronounce judgment upon those who do such things ALTHOUGH YOUR OWN CONDUCT IS THE SAME AS THEIRS—do you imagine that you yourself will escape unpunished when God judges?

4) Or is it that you think slightingly of his infinite goodness, forbearance and patience, unaware that THE GOODNESS OF GOD IS GENTLY DRAWING YOU TO REPENTANCE?
-----------------------------------------

I have always believed and have been taught that the Bible was written for Christians, not for the unbelievers. On that note, doesn’t it sound like Paul is telling us (Christians), that our behavior is the SAME as the homosexuals when he states in verse 2, “although your own conduct is the same as theirs” BECAUSE we “pronounce judgment upon those who do such things“? Just asking but it sounds that way to me.

(edit) Forgive me if I'm not saying this correctly, but by the above, I mean he seems to be saying sin is a tad bit equal here. (/edit)

This is not meant with a mean spirit or a smart alec spirit and I'm using Krispy's quote b/c it seems to fit here as well, “Thats the Bible speaking... not me. Accept it. It's reality.”

God bless,
Lisa

Here is an interesting question. How do we witness to the Homosexual? I watched a documentary on Netflix called Fall from Grace it covered the Westboro Baptist Church its obvious methods of being a witness is ineffective.

I found the documentary interesting because they showed Fred Phelps out right hatred towards homosexuals and then every now and then they had homosexual pastors and supporters of homosexuality. It was odd because I agree with a part of Fred Phelps in the sense that Homosexuality is a sin. But I disagree with spreading hatred towards Homosexuals.

So where does one cross the line?

Having received love and grace for hatred and rebellion, how can we not have compassion on those who are lost and enemies of God, as we once were? Is there any more pure a motivation than love?