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The heavens are not clean but the angels are not dirty either

C
ChrisJD Aug 20, 2011

"Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight." - Job 15:15


When the Bible speaks about God, it is certain to say at least two things to us: that God is without equal. And that God is Holy.

And so it is fitting also, that, whenever men speak to each other about themselves, they do their best to never compare their own goodness with God's or to somehow approach God with the thought of being His equal. God forbid.

The heavens are not clean in God's sight, the Bible says. However, that does not mean the angels are dirty. Neither does it mean that Christians should perpetually speak about themselves or others as though they were unholy or dirty either.

Some people use the perfections of God in such a way as to overshadow and eclipse any thought of men being made holy and perfect(relatively speaking) in the here and now.

Reminding others of God's perfections is good if it is to keep our thoughts humble and our hearts from becoming proud.

Reminding others of God's perfections is bad if it is to constantly overshadow and eclipse any thought or desire that men can be holy on Earth, now.


The heavens are not clean in God's sight but that doesn't mean the angels are dirty.

Or that God cannot make a man to be holy, on Earth now.


S
savedtoserve Aug 20, 2011

Amen. Thanks for this.

sermonindex Aug 20, 2011

"Be Ye Holy, as I am Holy"!...the command of God. Yet...we hear the cry of the great apostle John; "If any man say he has no sin, He is a LIAR...and the truth does not lie within him!"

So, how do we reconcile this paradox within the unity of Scripture? It is imputed Righteousness that we receive...and God sees us, "Covered By The Blood"...even in our sin. We are counted Holy, but yet not perfected.

Sin, when conceived, tainted the entire Creation, while attempting to secure the Holy Heavens too. There are three heavens talked about in Scripture. The clouds, the Sun and the Moon, The Stars, the Milky Way, and the constellations....billions of light years away from Earth.

These two were polluted by Satan's sin, and Adam's joining in...yes..even the furthest star is stained by the entrance of sin. But there is a Heaven never touched, a third Heaven, never defiled by the rebellion...It is the Holy Heaven where God sits enthroned, and Jesus at His right side.

This is the Manifest Holy of Holies...and Satan nor sin never came close...though in his bizarre deception, this was His Goal.....to unseat and destroy God Himself, and takeover. As far a dirty angels go, only a third of them ever became dirty....two-thirds were and are yet holy..and do God's bidding as commanded. The Holy of Holies...where New Jerusalem sits..was, is and will ever be holy.

[ "I am Gabriel, who stands in the holy Presence of God!"]

And...."Without holiness NO MAN shall see God!" There was blood shed , and a Holy Spirit given...and yet, there has been a Cross given to all, to come under that Holy Command, and die to our evil Nature...to live to His.


11. "And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

12. "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13. "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

In the time of the great White Throne Judgment, all of creation will be cleansed....even the furthest galaxies tainted by the iniquity of Satan and Adam.

Isaiah 3:..vs:4.....And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree."

and...2 Peter 3:11-13

11.."Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12.."Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?"......and THE PROMISE!!!...NEW JERUSALEM!

13..."Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness!"

EVEN THE FORMER THINGS....ALL OF THEM, AND ALL MEMORIES OF THIS LIFE TOO, WILL BE BLOTTED OUT BY HOLINESS..PURGED BY FIRE!!

Everything will be clean then..everything we see and do, and everywhere we go. This is the Prize of attaining Jesus.

C
ChrisJD Aug 21, 2011

Holiness belongs to godly men as well as Angels in Heaven. It is real, imparted as well as imputed.

It is finite and relative to the infinite Holiness of God.

But it is real nonetheless.

The angels are not dirty and neither are holy men, even with the presence of sin. Sin is failing of the perfection of God. It's presence does not mean men cannot be called holy on Earth, relative to the holiness of God.

Purity is real among holy men. Just not complete.

S
sarahsdream Aug 21, 2011

Holiness is something that only comes from God for He is holy and He has called men to be holy as He is holy.

This reminds me of how grievous it is that His Word is under assault. "Holy" is being removed because modern man does not think it can be attained. Man's standard is "good enough". God's standard is not realistic so His Word has to be changed.

DO YOU HAVE A Holy Bible?

2 Pet. 1:21 holy men
Matt. 25:31 holy angels
1 Thess. 5:27 holy brethren
Rev. 22:6 holy prophets
Rev. 18:20 holy apostles and prophets
John 7:39 Holy Ghost
1 Cor. 2:13 Holy Ghost
Matt. 12:31 Holy Ghost
Acts 6:3 Holy Ghost
Acts 8:18 Holy Ghost

Check your version.

"Satan cometh immediately and taketh away the word..." Mark 4:15

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