I John 3:9, We can't sin if we are Christians?

sermonindex Aug 28, 2011

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I got into a heated discussion about this with a couple of brothers several years ago at a Bible study. They kept insisting that we couldn't sin if we were Christians because of this verse. I told them that either their interpretation of this verse was wrong or the Bible is telling a lie. BECAUSE, haven't we all sinned AFTER we became Christians? Are you going to tell me that you never masturbated or lost your cool and exploded in anger on somebody or on your wife or you never cut somebody off on the road or worse, etc? You never over ate? What these brothers were trying to tell me was that if I sinned I wasn't a Christian. I kept asking them about this, and they would just answer by repeating this verse. Then I asked if they ever sinned since they became a Christian and they just repeated this verse. I tried to explain that their interpretation of this verse must be wrong, and then they answered by repeating this verse. IMHO they were really arrogant. They refused to listen to logic on this.

But, have I never really been a Christian? I've sinned a lot since I became a Christian. Have I just been kidding myself all along? Was my friend's interpretation of this verse correct? If we sin once after we become a Christian we weren't really Christians?

sermonindex Aug 28, 2011

Yes it is true, we often think we are Christians when we are in the early stages and still sin as believers, but we are not. It is only the start when we come to Christ for forgiveness. There then is a period when we find out that the old man is still active and we are unable toobey Christ as we should. There is something more which needs to happen to us before we are truly walking in the Spirit. This something enables us to walk without sin.

sermonindex Aug 28, 2011

Brother this is one of those passages where some Greek experts would be helpful. Unfortunately that ain't me. From what I have heard from those more knowledgable John seems to be talking about a PATTERN of sin. In the verse you referenced there is something in the tense of the Greek that suggest after conversion or the new birth one will stop sinning AS A LIFESTYLE. What seems to be in view here is the PRACTICE of sin and not individual acts of sin.

If what I have shared makes sense then it comports with the harmony of scripture and what the New Testament teaches about putting away sin to death with the Spirit's help. The one thing 1 John 3:9 does not teach is aimless perfection. If one derives that meaning out off this one passage then they woukd have to explain away 1 John 1:8-10. These scriptures teach that if we say we have no sin then we call God a lier. Then the familiar passage of 1 John 1:9 that says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. Scripture does not contradict scripture particularly in the same epistle.

So I think what is in view in 1 John 3:9 is God has delivered us from sin as a lifestyle. But there will be those times and for me they are all to frequent that individual acts of sin by thoight or act will drive me back to 1 John 1:9 for cleansing.

I hope this helps. I am sure there are those in this forum who can provide more clarity on this issue.

Submitted in Christ,

Blaine Scogin

C

Christinyou Aug 28, 2011

1 John 3:8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Who is the sinless One? He that is in us and His Seed remains no matter what, that is our birthing from God, the Incorruptable Seed of God the Father born again in the believer, He is the One that does not sin.

This explains "born from above, cannot sin" Who is sinning?

1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And (((((if any man sin,))))) we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

If any man sin, this man is us that the Seed is birthed in, The Seed cannot sin but "any man sin" can. Then 1 John 1: 9

In Christ: Phillip

Q

Questor Aug 29, 2011

I have long been with Adonai, but as a child who frequently stumbles, sin is a part of my life, much as I would prefer it not to be.

The Seed that was placed in me by the Ruach haKodesh glows with a holy and sacred influence, transforming me towards Yeshua's perfect example from faith to faith. This blessed Seed is a transformative one, much as a radioactive mineral causes changes in those exposed to it, so am I, born anew in the Spirit through Yeshua, but not yet complete.

My carnal body draws me toward sin, for this is a cursed and broken world, and mankind cursed as to be unable to NOT sin, no matter what we attempt to do in our own strength, except as the Spirit walks within us. I am tempted, and I do sin, often without being aware of it...not acting in ignorance, but in the blind following of my will towards those things that I think that I want, having been tempted and taught that what I want is good and natural.

And natural it is, for we humans to sin without thought or caring, until the Seed planted in us by the Holy Spirit slowly grows within us, and in a spiritually radioactive manner changes us from faith to faith.

The sinning becomes less, and the more we devote ourselves to hearing the Ruach guide our thoughts and decisions, the better the progress we make toward completion in Yeshua haMessiach.

Legally, we receive no judgement for sin because we are in Yeshua, and He is in us. Unfortunately, we do sin, and when we sin, if we repent of our sin, turn from it, and ask for forgiveness in Yeshua, YHWH will refuse to see that sin as He refuses to see the others.

Abba refuses to see our sin debt because of the covering, the kapparah, of Yeshua's blood. But we do sin. We are in the first Adam by body, and until our body becomes incorrupt, and we are as Yeshua is, we will sin, although less and less, and that not in our own strength, but in the Spirit.

We are mortal, and corrupt from birth, living in a cursed world, with our flesh as an enemy as well as the Adversary.

Adonai wants most of all, not that we attempt perfection in our own strngth, but to seek that completion in Him, through Yeshua, and the Ruach haKodesh.

Q

C

Christinyou Aug 29, 2011

Wonderful Questor,

I agree with everything and would add only one comment.

Jesus is much more that just a covering for our sin.

He is;

The work of Christ is represented by a variety of English words today. These words all have technical meanings drawn from Scripture. In early English these words were much more common in use.

1. Atonement is making amends for a wrong done, for a loss or injury caused. This is a more general term and must be used cautiously because it includes the whole process of making us right with God through the work of Christ.

2. Expiation is the actual satisfaction of a wrong, making atonement for it. Expiation is particularly the effect of satisfaction upon the sinner’s guilt.

3. Propitiation is the appeasing of the one offended to remove the cause of his anger. Propitiation speaks primarily to the effect of satisfaction upon God as the offended party.

4. Reconciliation is our restored fellowship with God resulting from the removed offense. The New Testament verb is katalassein. The noun form is katalagae. It means to exchange, to change a person from enmity to friendship. This works in both directions: We are reconciled with God, and he with us.

His Cross work is finished and so perfect was the sacrifice that it takes away our sin and puts it never to be seen again as far as the east is form the west, which you cannot get to the west by always following east unless you stop and turn around. That is what it means we don't turn around and look west to see our sin and either does the Father, we are new creatures in Christ old things are passed away, all things become new always, God the Father sees me through the work of Christ on the cross, which is finished.

In Christ our blessed perfection making our image grow into the image of Jesus the Son, perfect. "For as He is in this world so are we", we are growing into His blessed image.

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

And Pauls agony for us also; Romans 16:24-27 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. Written to the Romans from Corinthus, and sent by Phebe servant of the church at Cenchrea.

What is the power of God establishing us into? The revelation of the Mystery? Who's Gospel? What Secret? Manifest to who? Through our Glory in Jesus Christ for ever.

Fulfilling the Word of God in us; Colossians 1:25-27 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

What a glorious Hope: Phillip

sermonindex Aug 29, 2011

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Renoncer Aug 29, 2011

Endzone,

πας ο γεγεννημενος εκ του θεου αμαρτιαν ου ποιει οτι σπερμα αυτου εν αυτω μενει και ου δυναται αμαρτανειν οτι εκ του θεου γεγεννηται

Literally: Anyone “who has been born” of God (perfect passive participle – verb tense denotes an action that has been completed in the past unto the subject by an exterior actor, which continues to have an effect in the present), does not “do” sin (present active indicative – verb tense denotes an action that is “continuous” in the present, done by the actor himself), because His seed remains in him; and he “does not have the power” to sin, because he “has been born” of God.

As you see, because of an action that has been finished in the past by an exterior actor, the subject has limitations in the present.
Namely, because of the regenerating work of God (making a person be born-again), the Christian does not “do” sin anymore, in the present. Let me explain using this illustration:
Have you ever heard people who “do” drugs say something like, “Do you ‘do’ crack?” What they are asking is this: “Are you into this?” They are not asking, “Have you done it at one time or another?”, but rather, “Is this something that characterizes your way of living?”

Now, John is saying, “The person who has been born of God does not ‘do’ sin”.
αμαρτιαν ου ποιει
Why? Because he has been born of God, and therefore God’s seed remains in him.

For this reason, I believe the ESV has an excellent translation of that verse:

"No one born of God MAKES A PRACTICE OF SINNING, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God."

In Christ,
Renoncer

P.S.: You may want to read Charles Leiter's book entitled "Justification and Regeneration", including Appendix B, which deals with that verse. It is simple but excellent.

sermonindex Aug 29, 2011

Thanks brother. You conveyed more accurately what I was trying to convey to Endzone in ny earlier post. Also your illustrations helped me gain a better understanding of that passage.

Blaine

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Renoncer Aug 29, 2011

Brother Blaine,
I thought your response was excellent. For the most part, I believe you do not need to know Greek or Hebrew to know the Word of God. Like you did, we can look at the context and compare passages of Scripture to get an accurate picture of what is being conveyed. However, sadly, some people twist passages out of context. When they do so and refuse to let Scripture interpret Scripture, knowing Greek or Hebrew will help to properly divide the Word.

Now, we can avoid two pitfalls:
1) Concept of sinless perfection
2) Concept that a real born-again believer can still live in sin
Both are impossible and unbiblical.

I am French-Canadian by birth, and I can tell you that every reliable French translation clearly and unambiguously conveys that meaning (that of PRACTICING SIN).

In Christ,
Renoncer

sermonindex Aug 29, 2011

The very same Apostle who said this, that "he cannot sin.." also said;
9.."If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

10. "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."..Apostle John.

How can a believer sin, and it yet be impossible for him to do so? You are a liar if you say you have no sin.

This has to do with our position in Christ, as our Redeemer for all sins, past and future....but it is also conditional, obviously. IF, IF' IF we confess, and forsake them. Then we are as clean as we ever were are will be....imputed clean by His blood, and substantiated by the living Spirit that lives within us. "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." This is the imputed mystery of our walk..without sin...and..

5."Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6. ""!!And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:!!""..How could this be, to sit with God as we are...and yet be in sin? This is the mystery of Godliness, which is by FAITH, by His Spirit.

7."That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

He living in us is the only thing that makes us His. This is counted perpetual, eternal, as long as confess and forsake. His promise is that "He will never, never forsake you," once you have been born again. This does not mean eternal security, for He can, and has blotted out the names in the book of life, and cautions us to be holy, with this consequence on the rebellious.

We must please Him, and never forget the just shall live by this faith. Then we will be under that canopy of "Covered by the Blood,"..and we cannot remain in sin.
Romans 8.

"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10."And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness."

There is no sin imputed under the blood of Jesus, and evermore through Heavens gates, our eternal Home...and yes...it has to do with remaining in sin..and walking by faith....................................

"But, have I never really been a Christian? I've sinned a lot since I became a Christian. Have I just been kidding myself all along? Was my friend's interpretation of this verse correct? If we sin once after we become a Christian we weren't really Christians?"...EndZone

It seems that you are conflicted alot, and bewildered often....questioning if you were ever saved, or lost God, and the multiple put downs like the one on this thread,..."Man the "out there" types that post on Christian forums. I guess I should just accept it."EndZone.

Could you be exhibiting a condescending attitude that might be rooted in pride? Is this post something that you might think would bring confusion,or conflict to the forum?" Because of your history here that I've witnessed, possibly. I ask you in sincerity..not in judgment I hope...Have you ever been born again? How were you saved?

Often, the Peace of God leads us to understanding. I hope you find that in fullness.

C

Christinyou Aug 30, 2011

Romans 7:14-25 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The flesh must die, it cannot be saved, with my mind I am saved in soul and spirit, my spirit now being the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit in my soul forever. The flesh will take itself being a seed put in the ground and die, that it can bring forth fruit. Resurrection is the only life for the flesh, new and perfect like HIS. This flesh that I live in had to be made a temple of God, quickened to contain the God Life, not I "BUT CHRIST LIFETH IN ME", that is the only way I still live, CHRIST LIFE.

Galatians 2:19-20 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: ((((((nevertheless I live;))))) yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

In Christ: Phillip

P

PaulWest Aug 30, 2011

"There is something more which needs to happen to us before we are truly walking in the Spirit. This something enables us to walk without sin."

Have you - or anyone you know - actually attained this state?

U

UntoBabes Aug 30, 2011

I have a question for Renoncer,
What does your french Bible call Job's friends who kept insisting that he must have sinned, "Les Misrables"?
Just wondering!!!

U

UntoBabes Aug 30, 2011

Brother Martyr,
I am not sure if you have heard the saying that a little bit of Greek is more dangerous than no Greek at all.

In the case of verb tenses especially the present tense, the Greek does not have simple present tense and continuous present tense as we have in the English. So the verb "play" can be translated "is playing", "am playing", "are playing" etc...and vise versa
Same with "sin", "is sinning" or any other verb.
That makes it really hard to understand what John is trying to convey except for the context.

We know that any sin is of the Devil be it one sin or a hundred.
And we know that the Lord Jesus said that those who commit sin are of the Devil because he sins from the beginning.

John is not teaching anything new here.
The Lord Jesus said that a tree is known by its fruit.
Just as it is very unusual in the natural world to find an apple tree with oranges on it (((even one orange))) and we must assume that something wrong must have happened to its genetic make up, John carries that idea to the spiritual as well. If we see a child of God commiting ONE sin we must assume that the Devil had found his way to him somehow. You remember when Peter, the Lord's diciple who was just commended by the Lord Jesus for his bold confession of Him, yet when he tried to talk Jesus out of the cross. He said to him: "Get thee behind me Satan"

John here is tring to convey to us this same idea.
That if we are born of God, we can not sin( Period ).
This is the Christian ideal. The ideal must be defined so when we do sin, we would know that we have fallen behind the ideal and strive to get back there especially that we are given everything for life and godliness and the blood of Jesus is ready to cleanse and cover the penitent sinner.
But if the ideal is never set, how would we know that we are in the wrong.

U

UntoBabes Aug 30, 2011

Just a little note here.
When John says " can not sin". He is not talking about inability to sin as some teach.
Just as if someone asks a Chritian to lie and he says: " I can not lie" He is not talking about inability to lie but rather a moral restraint because of the new nature he recieved.

To say that a Christian can not sin (or does not have the ability to sin) and to say that a Chritian does not have the ability not to sin are both wrong. A Christian has both the ability to sin and to be free of sin, but he will not sin because he loves God and his law which is now written on his heart.

sermonindex Aug 30, 2011

BrotherTom I'll answer your question this way. If you think King Saul is among the redeamed, then I believe I am too. If you think King Saul is going to be in hell, then I think I am too. My life has been a parallel of his but on a much more obscure scale. King Saul clearly was anointed of the Lord and had the Holy Spirit. In fact he is one of the few OT characters that the Bible says clearly had the Holy Spirit upon them. But King Saul got in a lot of trouble because he really didn't have a heart to completely obey the Lord. And speaking of pride, King Saul had a huge problem with pride in this way; He wanted to take the joy, the life, the power, the wisdom of the Holy Spirit and consume that blessing upon his own lusts rather than obey God. King Saul is also a mystery man that I think very few people understand. One minute he is prophesying under the power of the Holy Spirit, and the next minute he flies into a demonic rage and throws a spear at David. I believe very few people can understand this man, and I think that's why there aren't many sermons on him either. Do you think he will be in heaven? I guess most people don't?

Here's another way I'll answer your question if I am/or ever was saved. I thought I posted this on this board, but maybe I didn't. If you read this below, do you think this guy is unsaved and doesn't have a relationship with the Lord? Can I tell you that on such and such and so and so a date I received Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior? No, sorry I can't tell you the exact date or even the exact circumstances for that matter.

In 1995 I was sitting in the back of Calvary Cathedral International church in downtown Ft. Worth , and I prayed as earnestly as ever, "Lord I wish a tornado would come through here and destroy all this". I prayed that for 2 reasons. One was that the "laughter movement" had gotten very out of hand for a few years although it was very real when Rodney Howard-Brown came through in 1992. Also the church was a circle shape and the acoustics in the church were horrible. Five years later that is what happened in the year 2000. A tornado touched down and stayed over the church for 2.5 minutes. The building was destroyed, but not a single person was hurt. The church was fully staffed at the time. The finger of God was on that tornado as He pushed it down on only the buildings He wanted it to touch. It would touch down then go up and move on and then touch down again.

In 2000, I was at a Wendy's restaurant in Bellevue , WA . There was much political debate at work about the next president. As I sat there in Oct/2000 with my absintee ballot, I voted for Pat Buchanan which I was planning to do all along. The Lord spoke to me in the most poignant way ever, and He asked, "Are you sure you really want to do that"? Then He showed me that this race would be so tight and so close that we wouldn't know who the next president would be for days and possibly weeks or months. I wasn't exactly sure how long the Lord was telling me this would go on--just that as time went on the resistance against Bush would weaken. It was clearer than an audible voice. This is when Bush barely won Florida by about 1,500 votes. It went one for days or weeks about who would be the winner.

When the snipers were out in Washington , DC a few years ago, I simply went to the Lord in prayer and I asked the Lord if He would be pleased to reveal to me who was doing the killing. The Lord spoke to me, and He said, "It's 2 black guys from the Tacoma, WA area and one is a lot older than the other, but they are both under 40". That's what the Lord said. I thought about going to the FBI, but since I had this sin problem in my life I was always shy about telling people things the Lord revealed to me.

A couple of years ago before they even took the first vote in the Senate on Obama's health care bill, the Lord spoke to me about it, and he said, "It will pass, but there wont be any teeth to it". The Lord was saying it would pass, but it wouldn't be enforceable. It failed to get 60 votes in the Senate and then the democrats lowered the bar for it to pass with 50 votes.

Do you think the guy doing the writing in these words below is that of an unsaved person?

I just want to tell you a couple of stories that illustrate how very involved the Lord is in our relationships. Both of these incidents happened when I was still in the illicit sexual behavior that has been in my life for a long time. Whether you believe them or not, they are absolutely true and I'm not going to exaggerate one bit.

When I was about 32, I was driving to a Steven Curtis Chapman concert at a place in Euless, TX called Footloose. It was a Christian entertainment type thing that isn't there anymore. Anyway, I had been praying for a while to the Lord that I might be able to meet a Latina type woman. I know that may sound weird, but I have always been attracted to petite dark-haired or brunette women. Maybe I just felt inferior dating a "normal" white girl. I guess that had something to do with it. Anyway, when I was about 1 mile from Footloose, the Lord spoke to me (not audibly) as clearly as ever and He asked, "You want a Latina girl?" I'm telling you that's what He said. I arrived at the concert and took a seat towards the back in the middle section before the concert started. I was sitting by myself. Sometime just before the concert started, I noticed there was this really cute petite Latina type girl sitting next to me on my right. I had been sitting by myself, but the place had begun to really fill up. This girl had the whole Latina look with the blue jeans and bright red shoes and dark hair, etc. She was about 5'1" tall and probably weighed about 100 lbs. I talked to her off and on during the concert. She was from Nicaragua and her family had just came to the United States during the Contra freedom fighter thing that was happening in Nicaragua during the Reagan Presidency. She thought she didn't speak good English, but she really spoke good English. She was an adorable girl. She was 21 years old. During the concert this girl kept bumping into me too which I thought was unusual. I know you may think this is funny, but it's true. When the concert was over I stayed in my seat for a while because I wanted to wait for the crowd to die down before I left, and I also wanted to buy a couple albums. This girl got up to leave with the people she came with. As she was waiting in the line to get out the door, she kept looking over at me like, "you moron aren't you even going to ask me for my phone number?" Unfortunately I had on my mind what I was going to do in Dallas after I left the concert which was not good. It wasn't until a while afterward that I actually realized what had happened and what the Lord spoke to me just before I got to the concert that night. The thing is, I wanted to do things my way (illicit) by going to Dallas instead of the Lord's way which was to start a relationship with this beautiful girl I had met at this concert. She was what I had requested (physically anyway) in prayer, but I was too stupid or whatever to trust the Lord in this situation. I wanted to handle things my way.

Fast forward about 14 years and I guess I was about 46 at the time. I had gone for almost a year without the illicit activity in my life. I thought that I was over it. I went to a TCU football game in Ft. Worth, TX near the time of Thanksgiving. I prayed for a while before I went to the game, and I was praying that the Lord would deliver me from going to the strip places in Ft. Worth where there were drugs and prostitution. As I was praying the Lord spoke to me just as clearly as he had the first time and He said, "There is someone at the game I want you to meet". I didn't know what to think of this, but I didn't think I had my act together enough to start a relationship. I went to the game. It was a night game and due to being near the holidays there weren't quite as many people there. TCU was winning and they upset #17 ranked Louisville at that game. There was this girl I had noticed there that was so attractive to me. She was the type of girl that I had told the Lord I would like to have as a wife. Again, I'm talking physical attraction here. You know how shallow us guys are about this. Anyway, this girl was "hot" to use the modern term. At least she was to me and I thought I wish I could meet somebody like her. I thought for sure this girl had to be married. I never more than glanced at her, and she never saw me looking at her. With about 2 minutes left in the game I moved down to a completely different section of stands near the 10 yard line. I did this because I was making my way out of the stadium and wanted to beat the crowd out a little bit. I was about 4 or 5 rows back in this section of stands and there was NOBODY in this entire section of stands except me. All of the sudden this girl that I had noticed walks down and stands right next to me!! I looked at her, and she kind of awkwardly looked away out of embarrassment I guess. Now, my mind is racing. This time I realize that I am right in the middle of what the Lord told me was going to happen. But I begin to justify in my mind why I can't have a relationship with this girl. I'm not enough this or that or the other thing. I never opened my mouth and after about a minute or two of her standing there, she went back to hang out with the people she came to the game with. I didn't talk to her because I can't talk to women. I have no problem with that or making conversation, etc. I guess I just couldn't believe that a girl as attractive as this girl was would really like me if she knew who I really was. So guess what? After the game was over I went to the seedy section of Ft. Worth like clockwork.

The moral of these two stories? The Lord knows the number of hairs on each head of all 6 billion people on Earth, so surely He can "hook you up" with somebody if you will just seek Him about it. It's no big deal to Him. When we insist on going our own way or insist on this person or that person, we may very well get them but it could also mean more problems. The Lord may very well give us what we want. I just found that going my way has lead to heartache and ruin. It is the opposite of true love, closeness, intimacy, children, family, etc. all the things I really wanted--not just sex.

C

Christinyou Aug 30, 2011

Quote: PaulWest wrote;

""""There is something more which needs to happen to us before we are truly walking in the Spirit. This something enables us to walk without sin." """

and what is that?

Have you - or anyone you know - actually attained this state? Jesus Christ only

No other, even in scripture.

In Christ: Phillip

B

brothergary Aug 30, 2011

by Renoncer on 2011/8/29 6:27:52

Endzone,

πας ο γεγεννημενος εκ του θεου αμαρτιαν ου ποιει οτι σπερμα αυτου εν αυτω μενει και ου δυναται αμαρτανειν οτι εκ του θεου γεγεννηται

Literally: Anyone “who has been born” of God (perfect passive participle – verb tense denotes an action that has been completed in the past unto the subject by an exterior actor, which continues to have an effect in the present), does not “do” sin (present active indicative – verb tense denotes an action that is “continuous” in the present, done by the actor himself), because His seed remains in him; and he “does not have the power” to sin, because he “has been born” of God.

As you see, because of an action that has been finished in the past by an exterior actor, the subject has limitations in the present.
Namely, because of the regenerating work of God (making a person be born-again), the Christian does not “do” sin anymore, in the present. Let me explain using this illustration:
Have you ever heard people who “do” drugs say something like, “Do you ‘do’ crack?” What they are asking is this: “Are you into this?” They are not asking, “Have you done it at one time or another?”, but rather, “Is this something that characterizes your way of living?”

Now, John is saying, “The person who has been born of God does not ‘do’ sin”.
αμαρτιαν ου ποιει
Why? Because he has been born of God, and therefore God’s seed remains in him.

For this reason, I believe the ESV has an excellent translation of that verse:

"No one born of God MAKES A PRACTICE OF SINNING, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God."

In Christ,
Renoncer

exelent write up

sermonindex Aug 30, 2011

Yes indeed many have witnessed to this state. And I witness to have experienced it too. It is the true Baptism of the Spirit not the Pentecostal version and it is seen much less today than in the past.