What is a "Bapticostal" to do when the call to ministry comes?

Hi Folks,

It would seem that God is calling me to bible college. I feel it more and more each day. It started with a seed and is growing.

So I am looking at my options.

My problem is that I quite strongly place myself into the category of "Bapticostal" in that I love the respect, position and awe with which the Word of God is esteemed in the Baptist church. I love the teaching and the holiness & purity that they espouse. I love the Berean attitude of the average Baptist (I am in Australia, so I am referring to the Baptist Union of Australia).

Let's leave the issue of Tongues out of this for now and concentrate on the cessasionist theology.

I am not a believer that the Holy Ghost no longer distributes the Gifts of the Spirit. I firmly believe they are for today and believe this to be the biblical position.

So hence I espouse the use of these gifts and the reliance on the Holy Ghost in all areas of ministry. Hence I am a fan of the pentecostal position.

But I am also against the theology of many of the most highly revered so-called "pentecostal" teachers. If you have listened to David Wilkerson's "The Reproach of the Solemn Assembly" you will understand exactly where I am coming from. Although my "home" church is a conservative pentecostal church, I often attend a good Baptist chuch which I adore teaching wise. In fact, it borders on "bapti-costal" itself. If only it would accept the Gifts...

Living by faith as a minister - in my view - MUST be a pre-requisite of serving our King in this capacity.

My teaching and theology has mainly been formed from the Word, in conjunction with preachers such as Carter Conlon, David Wilkerson, A W Tozer, Leonard Ravenhill and Paul Washer. I am a huge fan of the teaching of Chuck & Nancy Missler.

So now I am presented with a dilemma. Where should I look for my ministry? I'm thinking either South-Western Baptist Theological or Western Baptist Seminary. Both with wonderful reputations of producing holy men.

From the pentecostal side I am also looking at Zion Bible College which teaches living by faith and the Gifts. In addition, it has a great missionary programme which is very important to me.

I am praying about this and God has given me a good mind and ability to seek out information, which is what I am doing here.

I appreciate your time and look forward to your thoughts.

In His Name,

Pandarus - a potentially aspiring minister.

as a "Bapticostal" preacher myself, my advice is to follow the Lord's leading. Seek his direction. Take the good, leave the bad and don't be surprised if you find your self as sort of an outsider at times.

I love these new terms 'Bapticostal'!

How about some others such as:

CalvArminist.

Charismentalist.

Epistbyterian.

Or maybe 'Christian' might catch on! :)

hi pandarus

hey brother do you no any good baptise ,churches in townsville queensland

David Wilkerson was Assembly of God, I don’t even know if Carter Conlon went to seminary. I could be wrong but I always thought his degree was from the university of bent knees.

Well, in all honesty, a Baptist seminary should not be chosen because it will be a forever fight with them over the gift of “tongues.” Why do that to yourself and to them? You will not change an institution but in the length of the fight they might change you.

Where are you willing to go that will allow you freedom in the Spirit? Some Pentecostal college don't even teach that. I know where - the university of bent knees!!! you might try that one for a few years first!! (huge grin)

God bless you,
Lisa

Fuller and Gordon Conwell Theological seminaries are known for their Evangelical theological diversity, and have Charismatic/Pentecostal theological leanings. Not everybody there is of course, but some great scholars in Pentecostal circles have been in both schools. You may consider these schools if you go this route.

I love these new terms 'Bapticostal'!

How about some others such as:

CalvArminist.

Charismentalist.

Epistbyterian.

Or maybe 'Christian' might catch on! :)

Reminds me of the term "Pentaamibaptinite" which is a mixture of Pentecostal, Amish, Baptist, and Mennonite. :) "Christian" sure is much simpler!

I am bapticostal actually, I came to a place of seeing both sides, and foundd there was some of the baptist doctrine I didn't agree with and some of the Pentecostal doctrines I didn't agree with.

I would suggest NonDenominational personally anyways, when you go to seminary or any of the schooling you get basically what everyone teaches and you kind of get to make your own decisions from there, which in my opinion is important.

Pandarus,

I have a friend who is a pastor in a pentecostal denomination, holds a graduate degree from Fuller, and lives in Hawaii. He is very balanced, really good teacher. If you're interested in sharing your dreams with someone with some pastoral experience, is probably not far from you theologically, and has the academic cred you're aiming to start achieving, I'd be very happy to pass along his contact info.

Brothers (and sisters),

Thanks for all your kind and thoughtful advice. This response is meant in love (difficult sometimes with just typed words I know). Perhaps I need to make myself clear. I use the label "Bapticostal" because like it or not we are human and use language to communicate. It is often best to use terms that most people understand to mean a similar thing. Whether we like it or not, this is the case. I would love to simply refer to Christianity but the reality is whether we like it or not we live in a presently divided church. But we are all children of our Saviour if we are but born again. And there are born again true sons and daughters in everything from the most conservative catholic congregation to the most fringe charismatic congregation.

It is also the number one cause of problems in the job that I do.

So, for those that may be slightly hung up on terms, let me explain:

I take the bible literally. I believe it fundamentally. I take God at his word. When God says he made the universe in 6 days, I believe he means six days. I do not try to perform theological gymnastics to try to get the Word to fit my position.

When the Word challenges my beliefs, the Word wins out. Everytime. Even when it's a hard learning. When God says He will return physically to rule a physical Kingdom for a thousand years, I take him at his Word. In simplicity. Now before you get carried away with exceptions, there are obviously some metaphors in the bible - of course!

The truth of the Word of God - in context as an earlier brother said - is where my heart is. I believe the Baptists share this love for the word except in the area where - again as an earlier brother said - it would appear they need to perform theological gymnastics to justify their position on the cessation of the Gifts.

This is where the Pentecostals excel. They believe the Word in total. But I believe sometimes they too take things out of context and there are skewed focusses. Such as Baptism in the Holy Ghost havng be accompanied by speaking of tongues.

But look, all this is getting caught up in semantics. The focus is on the service and love of others and I feel this can best be achieved for me in a church that loves and believes the bible in totality and simplicity (not that there aren't some advanced and wonderful treasures lying just beneath). There are two things we are called to do. Conversion AND Discipling.

I could not have put it better than Appolus. His position is just about identical to mine. The power of the truth and simplicity of the Word of God empowered by the Gifts and outpouring of the Holy Ghost. I am excited just thinking about it.

Love, Joy and Grace BUT WITH Truth, Holiness and the Fear of God!

Now to Bible College. To be honest I've detested the concept for many of the reasons many of you have mentioned. I wish to remain humble and not develop a superiority complex or pretentiousness that is often the case of seminary graduates. I am in my early thirties and have experienced life (unfortunately in the worldly sense) so I am not embarking on this totally with my eyes closed and rose-coloured glasses on.

Our King has shown me a few things. Well may it be said that the the Apostles did not attend bible college and were simple men but I think a three year degree with the Maker himself might qualify, don't you?

Paul Himself was a "Pharisee of Pharisees" and the Holy Ghost used his learning. Jesus commands us yes, to go into the world. But what does he say once the lost are born again? To TEACH them to obey EVERYTHING he has commanded.

I do see the snideness displayed by some seminary graduates toward non-graduates and it disgusts me. I know Bible College will be no walk in the park and I am not embarking on the journey with a goal to becoming the Pastor of a church; but to be equipped to serve my Master in any which way whatsoever he commands.

In fact, if I want to serve my Master with my whole life, how can I do anything BUT prepare myself the best way he shows me? Remember, BEFORE Christ sent the disciples, he first PREPARED them.

And whilst there are many examples of those used mightily by God without ever having attended bible school - and even those saying they wish they hadn't; equally there are many used mightily by God who have been - and are thankful for having done so.

Finally, and most importantly, all these things must be underpinned by a daily relationship with our Saviour that begins in honesty & humility on our behalf, and MOST CERTAINLY on our knees. Love and adoration for our Creator, tempered with the Fear of God and directed towards bringing him Glory, Honour and Obedience.

My my, I have waffled, please forgive me. And bless you all.

P

Hi Pandarus,

I very much like your response and explanation of where you are theologically. I guess I would hold to the same postion as you in these matters. I like what you said here:
"When the Word challenges my beliefs, the Word wins out. Everytime". Amen!

I was just having a bit of fun with the 'Bapticostal' title (not at all having a dig) and trying to make the point that most (mainstream) factions have both enlightenment and blindness to various truths, so we take that from each which we see as 'biblical'.

BTW I attend an independant Baptist Church in the UK, which is in most ways very biblical and the folk there do love the Lord and have a desire to outreach and glorify God. However we differ on a few points such as the gifts of the Spirit (I believe they are for today, they don't) and some other doctrines. However I have not found it an issue and I am not there to bring my agenda (which I think is a main point), but to work together in the Lord on our common relationship with our Lord Jesus. It does mean I cannot be 'a member' as I can't sign up to their doctrinal statement, but I don't agree with 'church membership' anyway!

Too many of us want to go in somewhere and insist on confronting others with points of disagreement, rather than focusing on the much larger portion of things we agree on and can have fellowship with. When you think about it, it is a bit silly to go to a church or college that you know holds a certain position that you disagree with and then make a point of falling out about it. Better not to go there in the first place. That said, I think we can if we have the right spirit be a source of truth in the right way for these institutions to be challanged on their traditions.

Amen Dave! I attended an Assemblies of God school to become a pastor, after a while I learned what they actually believed and where they put emphasis and eventually buttheads with the Senior pastor when I inquired or disagreed with some of their doctrines one being about tithing.

After a while I was asked to leave the church and set down from leadership which I was much oblidged to do because I had no desire to cause devision in the church. I then went to a baptist church that has a Nondenominational pastor, so for the most part he is open minded in his thinking and is okay with different areas of thought on the scriptures as long as you can show him in the Word and defend your belief From the Word.

I personally am not baptist but I have my doctrines they have that I agree with while at the same time I am not pentecostal but I believe the Gifts of the Spirit are for today. And even another layer folds behind that I am not pretrib in doctrine but Posttrib. Ultimately I found that titles are handy at times but sometimes they are largely misleading and it is better to sit down with a man and talk about his and your beliefs, to never judge and assume you know what they believe based simply off the title.

Hey Pandarus-

You have certainly gotten plenty of input from others on what you should do with your life. Makes me chuckle.

The schools you mentioned are good choices. The one mentioned by kingjimmy is one I also personally know is a good option. Obviously you seem willing and able to attend a school out of your native country. That certainly opens up the options for you!

Do not be overly concerned with the exact knit picky theology of a school. Find the best one you can where you are also able to comfortably study considering their beliefs.... whether you currently agree with all of them or not. I attended Southern Baptist, Independent Charismatic, and Assemblies of God colleges/universities. I learned much at each one and picked up a couple of degrees along the way. I am a much more balanced person with the ability to minister more effectively in a wide variety of areas because of it. In fact I have actually held credentials with all of those groups at one time during the past 25+ years of ministry.

Some schools are focused on imparting knowledge, some on practical ministry skills, and even a few on developing a deeper devotional life. All of those are good and proper. However, it is YOU that determines what you get out of it. Never assume the person,or professor, is wrong just because you disagree with them. They might be, you might be, you may both be. However, if you or I determine just to "defend this position and belief" then we never grow any more in God or the knowledge of Him. We think just because it is our belief it must be right! You will see that a great deal of that on the boards here.. unfortunately it is very immature. Rise above that. It will pay you great dividends!

I commend your maturity in seeing balance. Not many posses that. Just read the posts on the forums and it will be all to evident! Just be a blessing to people..wherever they are at theologically. Preach Gods love, calls to repentance, the cross, becoming empowered by the Holy Spirit, loving your neighbor, and major on the majors.

I would also recommend a couple of resources that may be a blessing to you given the perspective you are at theologically.

1. The writings of Jack Deere. He was associate professor of Old Testament at Dallas Seminary, a bastion of cessationism. In the late 1980s, he abandoned his earlier theological position, announcing that he had experienced the charismatic gifts for himself. As Ravenhill said,,"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument". I think you will find his writings to be exemplary in theological thought and content as well as fired by the passion of having experienced the moving of the Holy Spirit for himself. In particular you may enjoy the books- Surprised By The Power Of The Spirt- and- Surprised By The Voice Of God-. They can be purchase as a 2 in 1 book fairly reasonably. It is right where you are I think.

2. The audio sermon section here on Sermon Index. Look up Duncan Campbell. He was a Calvinist Presbyterian that God used mightily in the Hebrides revival. He has perhaps 6-8 messages specifically on how the empowerment and baptism in the Holy Spirit were the key to that outpouring. They will refresh and fire your soul. Also give a listen to his testimony and the 2 part series "When God Stepped Down".

3. The Vineyard Calvinist group. I can hear the howling of a witch hunt beginning even as I type this.:-) Simply ignore the screaming mob as they descend upon this thread pitchforks in hand.:-). I have several pastor friends that are full 5 point Calvinists that have also experienced the baptism in the Holy Spirit. They are often used in the gifts of the Spirit as well. They have a loose network that enables them to receive mutual encouragement for their perspective ministries from each other. It also allows them a place to ask questions, bounce ideas off each other, and receive input about how their ministries may be able to help and learn from each other. If you are interested I can connect you. Just let me know.

Hopefully some of the information and ideas here are helpful to you. It is an exciting time in your life!

Blessings,

Solomon101