feminism and college and a paper

I am currently in an intro to women's studies class. I didn't think it would be too bad of a class going into it but I didn't realize how wrong I would be.

Our professor, a he, said that there would be things in this class that tick us off. This class seems to stigmatize women who want to have kids and not want a career of their own.

There are 16 people in the class and 3 of us are guys. Naturally the ladies in the class have much more to say than us guys. I am usually just sitting there listening because what can I say?

We have to write a 5 page paper on a woman's issue. This actually paralyzed my brain for a while simply because I have no idea and then a topic came to me - 'women and sexuality'.

Why am I posting this? To get a little bit off of my chest and also to maybe get some suggestions on a topic I could do about women's issues. It is due around the end of November and I have to have minimum 5 citations. They can all come from our textbook or elsewhere. If I use a bible I have to cite everything about it.

So, given this does anyone have any input? My thought right now is 'Women and sexuality'. I had thought about 'women and religion' but I don't know which would one I could write better about.

http://www.aboverubies.org/ here is a good site about womb-men and their high calling

DEADn,

I know that my opinion may be somewhat controversial on this forum, but I think the insight you can gain from this class, assuming that one is open to learn, will be valuable in understanding the culture in which we live and the evident disconnect between typically Evangelical gender roles and those commonly promoted in the west. Understanding the sincere resentment towards the church, whether one feels that it is well-founded or not, can be an aid in witness and understanding the women in your life.

Anyway, I assume that you know that the topic you've floated to us is a notoriously complex one, and one that is attended by very difficult writing. However, were I writing this assignment, I would perhaps examine how a sense of empowered female sexuality (meaning one that freely transgresses traditional values and taboos) was offered to society as an agent of liberation in the 1960s - and, as we all know, society was happy enough to accept the offer. My take on the topic would be to suggest that very ideas that were meant to liberate resulted in further subjection. This subjection may be to a still-male-dominated society that further fetishizes sexualized women, or to the fear of disease, or to biology (unwanted pregnancy). Perhaps the subjection is to sex itself - sex becomes the master that dictates one's actions and identity. Theologically, one could suggest the notion of subjection to sin, though such a suggestion would, I think, need an appropriate place in your argument.

This, I realize, is too big for a 5 page paper, and may depend some on how familiar you are with poststructuralist theory. Judith Butler is a big name in feminist studies, but she is absurdly difficult to read. Germaine Greer is also well-known and influential in literary studies. On the notion of the enslaving liberation, look to Michel Foucault's History of Sexuality. He, also, is very difficult, but rewarding when you understand the ideas. I suppose finding commentary on these theorists would be more productive.

Another idea would be to examine, from the point of women's studies, the depictions of female sexuality in the Bible. Look at what is suggested about Adam and Eve, the prototypical couple. Look at strong and powerful female figrues like Deborah or Jezebel. Look at the depiction of the enjoyment of sex in Song of Solomon. Look to the image of Mary, who conceives without the physical act. Look at the women in the Gospels who are condemned for transgressing taboos of female sexuality and look at how Jesus treats them. Is there a pattern or are there parallels? Is there a binary of good/bad in the Bible, with regard to female sexuality (i.e. Jezebel, one could argue, is a sexual figure. Is her wickedness related to her sexuality? Is Mary's goodness related to her lack of sexuality?) What does the text say, and how may it differ from the traditions handed down from the denomination you know? For secondary sources, look at an old commentary and perhaps compare it to a feminist-driven theology. Women's studies has to do with understanding the history of the plight of women, and how western culture is established upon principles that privilege men. How has the Bible been used for that purpose? Is it correctly used, then?

My hope is that these suggestions will not spark any vitriol or arguing on the board, regarding the sinfulness of feminism or how contemporary society hates the family or other such notions. I write as a lover of Christ and as a teacher of university English, and while I have some understanding of the topic, it is not my discipline. I want you to be able to write an intelligent paper appropriate the topic without having to sacrifice your values. But I also want you to do well and not feel it necessary to write a "Christian" paper that makes a statement but unintelligently misses the point of the exercise. You can do well with this, even if the subject (women's studies) is not a comfortable place to be.

Anyway, I hope this helps.
derrida

Just -in

why the class? It is part of what my major is. It is a cognate class. I am in Interdisciplinary studies with psychology and communications being the interests.

Not looking for a wife, been married 10 years now so that isn't an issue.

Derrida

Very good post!!!! Your post actually pulls in more ideas for me as I am them a bit more limited. My professor would be very approving of what you listed.

Initially I thought about writing on something dealing with lesbianism, as well as the power of the female body for starters. I am not quite sure if he wants us to write this paper in 3rd person or from the point of 'I'. In our informal journals we are to write from the point of 'I' and it something makes us made we are to declare it.

I am going to take your points here and do some reading on them and see what kind of inspiration I can get to write on.
This class is something in which I feel like I have walked into something so deep that I wasn't expecting because it all ties to the past of which I have never paid indepth attention to.
At the same time I want to do something that will teach me something and be 'fun' to write about. Nothing worse than writing something that you really hate writing on and you do it just to have something to turn in.

Do you have any references I could use for your ideas? I can use my textbook for the whole thing if I can find information in it. It is 700 pages worth of stuff.

I have to tell you that my bias' going into this class was that feminists are militaristic and have the intention of saying all white men are bad, Even some references to Christianity with negative adjectives before that word.

I also want to use the paper to sharpen my writing skills. I used to write pen pals back in the 1990's and it really sharpened my skills in writing. This is actually how I met my wife- she lived overseas. Funny because most people when I tell the story, if I don't mention pen pals, ask if I were in the military. Anyway.

Thank you for the post.

I'll try to hunt up some references for you.

It was a good teacher that helped me to understand the idea of feminism more, and understanding brought more sympathy. Now, I don't buy into the militaristic "womyn" stuff, but, as with most things, the loud and crazy minority gets the attention. If we want to compare our best to someone else's worst we'll always come out looking better.

The idea of feminism is really quite tame and normative by today's standards, I think one could argue that it almost isn't necessary anymore. But there are many academics whose livelihood depends upon churning out books and articles to keep the ideology going, and it becomes more and more extreme. My reading of feminism in its original idea is that it strove for fair treatment of women, equal pay for the same job, equal access to jobs, and a fair distribution of family/household reponsibilities with the husband, allowing the wife to work or pursue other interests is she liked, or even choosing to not marry and not have children, and fair treatment in the case of divorce (i.e. support). Nothing there seems controversial to me. Much of this has become normative and, in that sense, feminism ran its course.

This is, granted, a very idealistic reading of feminism and surely the demands that militristic feminists make upon society are too extreme. In many cases the pendulum of fair and equal treatment has swung past centre and we all can think of examples. Still, I remain in sympathy with that original push for equality.

Anyway,
derrida

Derrida

What you say is what I agree with as well but when I think of feminism as a topic I think of women who are manhaters. Women who not only want equal pay but want to be above men because they can do 'it' better than men. Women whole carry the attitude of getting in your face and not carrying what they say. It leads to women never marry because they hate men and some women eventually turn to lesbianism because a woman understands more than a man type of thing.

In my job, I work with all women and normally I work better with women then men because I don't carry that arrogance about me like some men do. I usually wear my thoughts and emotions on me sleeve yet the women I work with are like oil and water. They don't like each other too well and I am stuck in the middle having to put on different personas in order to communicate with them. Never really had to deal with that before.

I say all that to say that it will be a challege for me to understand feminsim as it is supposed to be vs what it probably is now.

I am communicating with my professor about this paper and it turns out there are others in the class who are confused. He bascially wants the paper to be an 'I' paper, How I understand it but I think I have a shallow understanding of it. I see a woman's role through a utopia type of view which isn't valid.

Was your learning process a gradual one or was there a particular writing that broke the door in for you?
I know for me right now, the book I am reading it like sandpaper to my mind. Some things are ok and other things seem very condescending and it is that paper that makes me go grrrr.

Deadn,

I never was in the position you are in, but I did read a book that impressed me. The book is "Under the Influence - How Christianity Transformed Civilization" by Alvin J. Schmidt. Dr. Schmidt is a professor in sociology at Illinois College at Jacksonville, IL. In this book he deals with the status of women and how Christianity impacted it.

After reading it, I got to thinking and had a question, so I emailed him asking for his opinion. He replied and said it is true.

My question was: it appeared that by the time of Christ the Jewish male attitude towards women had deteriorated from what it was earlier according to the OT law and history. Did this deterioration come about when they were taken into captivity and they imbibed there the pagan mentality towards females? He said, "Yes, this is true."

If one reads OT law as it pertains to females, works to understand the practical benefits, compare it with the surrounding culture, I think you will find it really liberates females. (In one of the prophets God gets angry with the men on how they treated their wives!)

From my perspective, when people embrace worldly culture, discard the taboos long inherent in Biblical Christianity, you will find women being enslaved. What they thought would liberate them, enslaves them all the more. Many of the things females embrace are done so for the sake of someone else's greed, e.g., the abortion industry. Children are taught to breed and when they conceive they are taken to an AB clinic and have an abortion. And this procedure is not free. Indiscriminate breeding also leads to contracting STDs which can kill or at the least infect you for life and who benefits from that? That is the practical...

Deadn, the practical reinforces God's word, demonstrates the beauty of God's wisdom in prohibiting sin! The disregard of God's law for life enslaves. Everytime.

Please keep us posted on what happens...

DEADn,

I've hesitated to ask, but, are you a Christian?

Enid, Wow. That was one bold question, you have put out. Many many times that passes my mind when seeing people, in church especially. I would defer it, thinking that would be offensive.

But it should not be, when asked with a concern for the church and to-have-a-high-standard-to-be-a-Christian. I pray that there would be more willing to question, than the ones who promote, "who am I to judge" mentality.

I realize that it is not for me to judge and it is sin. But when it comes to Christianity, I better keep my self and then not take everything that may come to me.

Yep, it has to be a women's issue. I really don't know what that means. Equal pay doesn't really give me inspiration to write 5 pages on it. Sexuality does because even while I was a teenager I would preach to girls about keeping themselves because their sexuality goes far beyond that private area. BUT with feminism I have to read what feminism says about the subject. BTW, I was not a christian in my teen years. I did know right from wrong.

I have this big textbook that I will hopefully be using some articles to write this THING and it would be cool to fit some biblical passages in there as well. It seems to me that feminism and chrstianity don't want to mix-like oil and water and the if Christianity has given liberty to women I don't know that it shows or is highlighted very much. Even my textbook downgrades Christianity with buzz words designed to trigger the emotions negatively.

btw, someone asked if I were a christian. Yeah, and I use it loosely as well. I was born again in 1990 and I remember how it happened. 9 year later I died inside as a result of some confrontations I had over a year with christians. Since then I have slowly progressed back- even going back to church but I don't view life now like I did then. I am more moderate in views then I used to be and sometimes I feel like I am borderline agnostic at times simply because of too many questions. DEADn comes from the fact that I died inside and was dead in soul. I carry the word to remind me of those very dark days.

Back on this topic, I wonder in the course of this paper what bias' I may have towards feminism? Yet I think it all comes down to what it is vs. what I define it as is as well.
I told the professor that being this class is a college class I expect a militaristic town to the class because of the nature of college and liberalism. True to form mostly the ladies in the class talk which is only natural and at times I hear the devaluation of 'white men' which puts up my walls. As the teacher says 'some things are going to make you mad and that is ok as long as we can discuss it in an intelligent way'. lol

I am rambling here.

Endzone

Endzone

I am a believer in Jesus Christ- God the Son of the Trinity. I have been more committed to this faith in the past vs now because I have alot of struggles within. Sometimes I feel as if I am still a teenager seeking my own identity and looking for an intelligent way to explain it if that makes sense? My wife is Catholic by tradition but we have begun going to a Nazarene church since July which shocks me. Up until then she wouldn't step inside a protestant church. I liken the Nazarene church to the pentecostal church only takes away all the dancing and the tongues and it is about the same thing. We go every Sunday or Saturday evening. I work every other weekend so on a work weekend we go on Saturday evening.

THe college I go to is a secular university. University of South Florida Polytechnic. I am in my 2nd and 3rd class as this college. I graduated with an AA in liberal arts from Polk State college which has the same campus as USFP.

My professor, I don't think he wants a perfect paper, He just wants us to write a paper on a women's topic from our point of view and he wants us to back up what we say with evidence so he knows we have read something to support what we believe vs saying that somebody said something. Something like 'Well, God said it so I believe it ' type of thing. He wants to know, if God said it show him what God would say such a thing, give evidence to support the argument. I did this in college composition. I wrote asking 'Does Islam support terrorism'.

Like "just-in" said, I suppose that the problem with a concept like "feminism" is that term itself is subjective to each person.

When I was an undergraduate student, I noticed the wide range of concepts by which some professors assigned the term "feminism."

I had one professor who was quite traditional and believed that women in the university or workplace (rather than staying at home) was still a display of feminism. Another professor was so militant that she refused to take the last name of her husband for herself and her children because she felt that it was "demeaning" to women and a sign of "ownership." I even had one English professor who assigned me to write a paper in "defense of lesbian marriage" (which I refused on grounds of my Constitutionally-protected faith...and threatened to drop the class and let the University president know why I did so...which then led to the professor changing my writing topic).

My wife studied in Europe for a semester during grad school and was assigned a topic in feminism. Like someone else suggested, my wife took a rather felicitous analytical approach to the essay, focusing on the education of women and girls in third world countries.

I cringe at the depth by which some feminism has encroached modern society and the range by which it is interpreted. Feminism is no longer about women...or the idea of a woman to think or make choices. It is often defined by many as a pro-abortion, pro-homosexuality, complete and utter independence from men concept -- and any woman outside of that view is rejected as "radical" by many (especially on the political Left). They applaud women who are in a position UNLESS that woman is anti-abortion, anti-homosexual activism, or believes in some traditional gender structure in terms of family.

In fact, I opted out of a scholarship opportunity to study abroad at Oxford for a semester partially because one of the required subjects was on Feminist Philosophy in the 21st Century. After suffering to earn an "A" in a required Poetry and Novel class where the professor presented only poetry and novels from feminist perspective, I decided against subjecting myself to it yet again.

However, I would encourage you to find a topic that you might be interested in -- such as the role of women in churches (you could even interview some wonderful members of SermonIndex or ask them for sources)...or even, perhaps, the shocking place of women in Islamic societies. It is often best to approach this through an analytic lens, so you actually present the material academically and the professor cannot penalize you for a stand for or against.

You will be in my prayers.

""A woman trying to explain the game of football to a group of men is like a man trying to explain the pains of childbirth to a group of women.""

So, so funny! Too bad you could not hear me laugh!

Deadn,

Here is a topic that would likely anger people or at least have them bouncing off the walls.

The subject is: "Does having an abortion make a female more vulnerable to breast cancer?" The answer is "yes". Not only is it limited to abortion but miscarriage as well. Now miscarriages occur naturally, ABs don't, they are selective.

The breast cancer research industry works hard to discredit this connection. And therein lies another inconsistency: the breast research industry.It is a money making industry. Remove, outlaw a major causation and you will have less breast cancer and more grad students, college professors will be out of work. (Actually, I work to avoid buying anything from any company that will advertise that a portion of their income will go to fund breast cancer research.)

The bottom line is females want to live for self, me, myself and I and for her own pleasure with no strings attached. This includes the right to live promiscuously with no consequences. Oh...but there may be one - occasionally so you just go to a woman's clinic and get an ab and everything will be OK until the next time...But times' acomin' - and you will suffer physically.

Hey! Did you know that one of the Ab procedures called an D&C costs only a few hundred dollars at an abortion clinic, but if a woman has a miscarriage and needs to have one done in a hospital it will cost thousands?

OK...this is all for now...

Just a thought - something to think about...

(Must say this: I used to work in a pro-life ministry but have been out of it for several years. I assume what I stated is true, it was back then and I am sure it still is.)