How many of you (Christian) have been harassed in some way in the work place and often? Whether precisely because of your Christian witness or for other reasons not related to your Christian witness (i.e simple jealousy, demonic attack, or other)? I want to know if it is common or just something unique to my experience. Some detail appreciated.
Ok, I am an employer - one who employs people seasonally.
I do have a word for employees.
When you are on the clock, your time belongs to your employer. Get it? That means you do NOT gab and play with your cell phone! It matters not what your faith may be, if you have any you will destroy your testimony by violating this principle. The scriptures talk about purloining and this applies here.
We had a girl who did excellent work. But as time went on her output got less and less. She was doing well initially so I did not keep tabs on her until the end of the week it dawned on me what was happening. Dense me, I know. But when my husband told her he did not want her to use her cell phone while on the job, she told us at the end of the day she is quitting. Later, she told people she quit because she could not do the work good enough for Sandra! Not true.
Her testimony? I do not take it seriously at all - if she has one.
This is the other side of the issue. You did not ask for it but I gave it anyways. Who knows? Someone may think they are being oppressed because of their faith but they may experience oppression because they are lazy, do not take orders well, steal time from their employers, talk too much. The employee is there to make money for his/her employer. If you fail to do this he cannot afford to hire you. Simple as that!
My experience..
Enough for now...
I agree Ginny completely.
I was laid off a few months ago because there simply was no work coming in. In fact, that office will probably be closed by the end of the year because of the lack of business. I maintained a good witness and did my work well... and as a result the company did all it could to keep me... EVEN THO my immediate supervisor was Jewish who really had no patience for Christians. But he loved my work.
Now I am working as a temp for a rather large corporation. They hired two of us at the same time. Last week they fired the other guy. Why? Poor productivity. I'm still there, and in fact they just extended my contract... and there is talk about a permanent position.
As for being harassed in the workplace simply because of your faith, there are laws against that. There are Christian law firms that will take cases like that FOR FREE. Just be sure that you are actually being harassed for your beliefs, and not because you're an idle fool. (not calling YOU an idle fool, I meant that to everyone in general).
Krispy
ginnyrose, Your entitled to how you wish to run your company, but I believe your employee was wise to quit.
You write: "We had a girl who did excellent work. But as time went on her output got less and less. She was doing well initially so I did not keep tabs on her until the end of the week it dawned on me what was happening."
What's this "... as time went by ..." She quit after one week.
I owned my own business, a very successful business. My employees were permitted to take personal calls, sometimes a spouse will call with important info, or they may call their spouse to make sure their paycheck was deposit so the mortgage payment does not does not bounce. They may be concerned about their sick child, or need to be notified by a doctors appointment, or one that was cancelled. As long as it is legit, I did not mind.
What I did mind was their overall productivity. To boost this, I let my workers know when they performed well, that I do depend on them, I gave them credit for a job well done, praise them in front of other workers, at the end of the year I give out bonuses beyond their agreed salary, for good performance. I encourage competition on performance among those whom I employed. I make them feel that the company's success is their success. They were happy and I made a lot of money during those years.
I once applied for a job as a Construction Project Manager. Apparently my interview went well as he tested my on my Construction knowledge and good sense. The owner offered to pay me $ 150,000 per year, the most I ever been offered. Then he gave me his version of "When you are on the clock, your time belongs to your employer. Get it?" speech. And he obstinately set down his very ridged rules. I turned down his offer. He tried to get me back, but I knew it would be very unpleasant for me to work for this man for any extended period of time.
So I write this to let you know there are other ways to run a company successfully without resorting to your "word for employees", your advice as to what Christians must accept when working for their employers or they are not good Christians. I've always been a 'Mercy triumphs over Judgement' type employer, and I've obtained excellent results.
Art, I've known Ginny for a while... I think you have made some assumptions about her that are not necessarily so. It's hard to relate one's whole life and work into a couple of paragraphs. I am certain she allows her employees to take the type of calls you mentioned.
I think what she was addressing was endless long phone conversations outside the range of what you described. And yes, that would be stealing if that is in fact what was going on.
But Ginny is very good at defending herself.
Krispy
In my work as a meeting coordinator I work pretty much alone and unsupervised. By God's grace, and may I never abuse it, I enjoy tremendous favor from my staffing agency and seminar companirs. So I am not harrassed. So I praise God that he has blessed me with work I enjoy.
I think Ginnyrose addresses some valid points and has given a valuable perspective as an employer. I am noticing a disturbing trend, particularly among young adults, who take an irresponsible attitude toward their jobs. What is really disheartening is when these young adults make a big deal about being Christian and may talk about the word. But then show up late and use their cell phones and not give their all to their employer. When their employer addresses these issues they are the ones who cry persecution or its the devil or harrassment. Consequently their testimony cannot be taken seriously. Paul writes in 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12 that our ambition should be to lead a quiet life, to ,mind our own business and to work with our hands. Such a life will win the respect of outsiders.
If we really want to make a gospel impact may I give a word of advice? Please do not tell the workplace you are a Christian. Let me explain. The moment you announce you are a Christian you will be out in the spotlight. In a culture that is hostile to Christ the nonbelievers will look for opportunities for you to screw up and when you do they jump. And as Ginny said your testimony is not taken seriously.
Do you really want to make an impact for Christ in your work place? May I suggest you show up for work on time. If possible get there 15 minutes early. Be at your work station ready with a smile to give your employer your Christ centered effort. Respect the company policies on cell phone uses. Do not use the computer for video games or personal email. Get your projects and quotas done in the assigned time frame. If you finish ahead of time on something offer to help someone else. Stay out of the office or factory gossip. You are there to work. Dress appropiately for the job. If in an office environment dress according to the company protocals. Br professional. Saints dress conservatively and tastfily. If in a factory environment dress cleanly. Wear protective shoes and pants. Leave the ratty t shirts, cut offs, and sandals at home. Respect the break and lunch times. I honestly believe if you quietly do these things your testimony for Christ will have far more imact in the work p/ace. And may lead to some coversations about Jesus.
Want to make your work more enjoyable? Pray over your work area in the office or factory. Pray that God will show up in the work place. Pray for Jesus to guide you in a project. Pray for God to bless your boss, your coworkers, your company. Before you go into the office or factory ask God to go before you and annoint your time at work. Bekieve me this works. When I pray over my meetings they go a lot more smoothly and the day is a lot more enjoyable.
One more thing be thankful you are blessed with a job. Some may feel their job stinks. Nothing to be thankful for. Be thankful you have a paycheck coming in. Believe me a paycheck beats being in the ranks of the unemployed.
Saints this is the walk of holiness. Showing up at work on time and keeping your checkbook balanced is just as important as listening to Leonard Ravenhill or Paul Washer. Sometime I think we forget the more practical things in our pursuit of theology.
____________
Blaine Scogin
Blaine,
You just gave us some excellent guidelines for the workplace. I think you are right on! Praise the Lord!
As for Trekker, I don't know what the situation was exactly, so I am not in a position to judge. All I can say is suffering for Christ is done in humility, without the American mentality of fighting for one's rights. However, if you are forced to do something that goes against the will of God, then by all means don't go down that path, whatever the consequences may be.
Otherwise, here are the divine guidelines:
Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation. Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor. Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God. For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
(1 Peter 2:12-25)
In Christ Jesus,
Renoncer
Brother you are correct. There is another side I wanted to post but my entry was getting too long. Lord willing will post that other side later.
Blaine
by KrispyKrittr on 2011/9/15 9:51:23
Art, I've known Ginny for a while... I think you have made some assumptions about her that are not necessarily so. It's hard to relate one's whole life and work into a couple of paragraphs. I am certain she allows her employees to take the type of calls you mentioned.
I think what she was addressing was endless long phone conversations outside the range of what you described. And yes, that would be stealing if that is in fact what was going on.
But Ginny is very good at defending herself.
Krispy
Thanks for sharing. Ginny Rose has a good friend in you. And that is a good thing. I do not know Ginny Rose at all. I was just sharing, as a Christian businessman a different approach to treating Employees.
I'll second that Blaine, very good advice on how employees should approach their jobs, Christian or otherwise.
At my new job... I did not tell people I was a Christian until some began asking. The only tell tale sign is my Bible sitting on my desk.
There is a two fold reason why I dont hide it (altho there is much wisdom in living it out FIRST, and then talk about it!). #1 is to be a witness. I am condfident in my work ethic. #2 it helps to keep me focussed on my witness and how I live it out. If people know I am a believer and I know they are watching it helps me to live it out. I dont want to do anything to bring reproach upon my Lord.
For the exact opposite reason I do not have Christian bumper stickers on my vehicles. Because I know sooner or later I'm going to embarass the Lord with my driving...
Krispy
Art,
The kind of calls this girl was making were just plain old chatting. It had nothing to do with business or emergencies. How do I know? I heard her speak but at the time it did not register how much she was doing it. AND besides if there were emergencies, we would have allowed her to leave and do what needed to be done.
When we have employees, we brag about them to others, and praise them for work well done. That is why this girl got away with it as long as she did: she had our confidence and we never thought she would be taking advantage of us.
This problem of abusing cell phones is not restricted to females. My husband has seen a mechanic hanging onto a cell phone while working. DH got so annoyed with him because he wanted to talk to him about his vehicle, but no, he was busy yapping - to his girlfriend and he DID have a wife.
Cell phones are wonderful but they can be abused and are too many times.
Just thought I would share this...
ginnyrose
PS: Thanks, Krispy...:-)
AMEN! Blaine.
My wife and kids know not to call me at work unless it pertains to schedules, etc. Sometimes we have to figure out who is picking up who, who has to be where... etc. But that is easily solved in about 30 seconds. No chatting while I am working. At the same time, they know they can reach me any time if needed.
Sometimes they text me because then I can respond when I get time and they dont interrupt me.
But chatting for the sake of chatting.... unacceptable at work. I dont even do that outside of work. I'm not a big phone talker.
It was a given a couple of generations ago: "You dont bother a man when he's working." I remember hearing my grandparents and my parents saying that. You never hear that anymore.
Krispy
This thread seems to have gotten off track. The OP was regarding persecution due to one's testimony and not because of poor behavour. If you have suffered persecution because of your testimony please share!
I don't think that the thread necessarily got off track as ones behavior at work often brings perceived harrassment which they construe as persecution. Ap example. I know of a young woman who works for the United States Dept. of State. She has a pretty responsible job. She is a Christian. Has done ministry. Even taught in the persecuted church. When I first met her and we would talk she said she was being persecuted in her office because of her faith. She would not get favorable evaluations and would be written up. Her supervisors would continually discipline her. This sister would always tell me it was the devil, demons, warlocks and witches out to get her. One would think this sister were the target of the NWO.
Now let me give you the other side of the story. This sister has consistantly shown up late for her job. She has used up all of her annual and sick leave and used much leave without pay and been many days absent from her job. Her supervisors have counselled her repeatefly stressing she needed to be at her job where they depended on her
When we would talk she said it was persecution. She said no one would listen to her speak of Christ. As I started to put things together I gently suggested she might want to tighten up her job behavior. She accused me of having a religious spirit. Needless to say we do not talk to each other.
So you be the judge. Is this persecution or poor job behavior.
____________________
Blaine Scogin
Nobody likes to be harassed. Harassment brings us to our knees and is better to keep the soul in check than praise and success.
They try to make fun out of me at the work place, but this rather furthers the course of the gospel. They tell dirty jokes and watch me if I laugh.
Once our IT manager who always tries to wind me up about my faith asked me who I report to. I told him to JESUS, and everyone around laughed.
I friend of mine who had lived in the UK and had to go back to Pakistan. He found a job there and when his colleagues found out that he was a Christian they told him to leave the same day or they would hurt him.
Does persecution exist at work because of one's stand for Christ. Yes. It does exist because of the darkness of the times we live in. And such persecution is on the increase. Because my work as a meeting coordinator requires me to work alone at different venues I do not experience such persecution other than the occasional snide remark I may get as I read my New Testament at the registration table. When my paper work is done my responsibility is to mind the seminar and make sure everything runs smoothly. So I have some downtime to read the word. Whereas this has opened up some good gospel discussions there have been some dirty looks and remarks.
When I lived in Denver there was a Christian public school teacher who was fired from his teaching job. The firing had nothing to do with his job performance. It was said he was an excellent teacher. He was fired for quietly reading his New Testament in the classroom during his designated breaks. Thus far the Federal courts have upheld the firing.
I have heard accounts where a Christian accounting clerk will be asked to change a report to make the company bottom line look good. This clerk knows the data is wrong and the report would be fraudulant. Also the clerk knows they would be lying, in sin, and compromise their walk with Christ. The clerk tells the manager respectfully but firmly they cannot change the report because of their witness for Christ. The clerk is fired for insubordination.
In large businesses and even the public sector diversity is the idol. Homosexuality is the accepted norm. New age practice and shaminism are promoted as new management practices. Christians who work in such places and speak out on these things are disciplined or fired. And now subject to legal prosecution. I believe it is a hate crime to speak out against homosexuals or moslens..
It is perfectly alright to mention the name of Buddha or Mohammed in the work place. Mention the name of Jesus Christ and you are disciplined, fired, and soon may be jailed. I am speaking of the United States.
I have been speaking of Christian workers in a secular work place who experience persecution. How about evangelical pastors who are run off from their churches for preaching the truth. That would be another thread.
Yes, there is persecution in the workplace because of one's stand for Christ and 8th will only get worse as the days go by. The question we need to ask ourselves is if we are willing to pay the price.
____________________
Blaine Scogin
QUOTE: "This thread seems to have gotten off track. The OP was regarding persecution due to one's testimony and not because of poor behavour. If you have suffered persecution because of your testimony please share!"--JEREMY
Thank you Jeremy, my thoughts exactly. No one here was even remotely answering the question but going off diatribes and sermons about how people should behave as employees in the workplace (as if i didnt already know that). The question once again is HAS ANYONE HERE (CHRISTIAN) SUFFERED HARASSMENT IN THE WORKPLACE EITHER FOR BEING A CHRISTIAN OR DUE TO POSSIBLE DEMONIC ATTACK, JEALOUSIES, ETC. Other examples would also include "mentally ill" coworkers, bitter atheists, or people who have serious personality disorders, bullies, and pathological liars who would make your life miserable, unjust bosses, etc.
QUOTE: They try to make fun out of me at the work place, but this rather furthers the course of the gospel. They tell dirty jokes and watch me if I laugh.
Thank you narrowpath. This is the kind of personal story i was looking for, along these lines.
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