All Things Are Permissable: Homosexuality?

sermonindex Oct 10, 2011

1 Corinthians 10:23 "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not."

Just had a teenager inform me that their youth pastor told them that it's ok for a Christian to be homosexual/lesbian/"trans-gender" based upon 1 Corinthians 10:23.

Now, I know how to answer this... but I thought it might make for an interesting theological discussion here.

So how would you answer that? Or... do you agree with that?

Krispy

M

mguldner Oct 10, 2011

YARG That cursed context and its unrelenting rule, without it we could get into all sorts of sins our flesh desires, eh?

Paul is clearly talking matters of food and not sexual orientation, notice Paul says in the pervious verses

"21Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of devils; ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table and of the table of devils."

Meaning we can't go around all willy nilly like dabbling in the things of the world because "hey its "lawful" but not expedient." This would be a clear contradition of Paul to the Galatians church as well that says all who partake of sexual immorality won't go to heaven.

Then after this verse Paul gives us yet another guideline for this verse we should "Let no one seek his own, but each one the other’s well-being."

The ignorant youth pastor comparing Apples to Oranges being the two matters are two completely different issues, one is a matter of food sacrificed to idols (which Paul cautions and says do what is more edifying to others) and sexual immorality (which Paul completely forbids in many of his other letters).

If its in your power brother I would talk to this youth pastor and set him straight on this because he is not only walking down a path of unrighteous thinking but leaving very impressationable generation down the same path of unrighteous and ignorant thinking.

I have come to realize that being politically correct is a big deal to this next generation and so they tend to bend the Word of God to fit the politically correct agenda of the world, more and more each day I find I must cling to the Word with all my might or I may fall under such a mind set.

sermonindex Oct 10, 2011

Yea, not sure I have the authority to call him on the carpet on this since I have no ties to that church nor have kids there. Some people we know attend there tho, and the more my own kid's friends who attend there come to me with that garbage it may come to a point where I will offer this young man a challenge... since he may have an impact on kids not in his youth group thru the ones who are.

This is what happens when a church hires some kid who is barely old enough to not be in the youth group himself... and has no real world experience... and no kids of his own.

Basically the church hires a fool to teach foolish children.

Krispy

M

mguldner Oct 10, 2011

Yeah I was once that fool, but I didn't ever make such an obvious mistake regarding scripture. That to me is pretty clear cut.

I will say after watching that Divided documentary it open my eyes even more to the crisis of the "Youth Pastor" and that something needs to change whether its getting rid of youth pastors all together OR reforming and changing their function as a whole.

Do you know the kids parents and perhaps talk to them about it? Odds are the youth pastor may have picked it up from a superior which would be an even graver thing to happen.

L

luke673 Oct 10, 2011

Gaaaggggg. it makes me sick to hear of someone teaching kids that its ok to be homosexual. I teach the youth sunday school class at my church, im not a youth pastor.The problem is these people didnt get enough training growing up in there church. or have fallen away listening to some tv preacher preaching that feel good stuff, Joel olsteen, gaaagg. If there was any way possible i would openly rebuke him just like paul did to peter in acts when he didnt want to eat with gentiles when the jews came. There is coming a time when true christians will have to stand for what they believe.

luke673

sermonindex Oct 10, 2011

Do you know the kids parents and perhaps talk to them about it? Odds are the youth pastor may have picked it up from a superior which would be an even graver thing to happen.

Not strong believers... the dad agrees with the youth pastor. The mom claims she cant understand the Bible so she wont address it.

Hate to say it, but they are your typical American "church goers"... when they go.

Krispy

sermonindex Oct 10, 2011

If there was any way possible i would openly rebuke him just like paul did to peter in acts when he didnt want to eat with gentiles when the jews came. There is coming a time when true christians will have to stand for what they believe.

There may be a way to do this, the Lord just has not shown me how yet. I have to be a little careful because hearing things second hand from kids can be tricky. I think the best way to handle something like this is first of all PRAY and dont be in a hurry...

Maybe set this guy up a little bit. The old "give a man enough rope and he'll eventually hang himself" thing. Maybe send back some challenging questions thru these teens, and make sure they mention me by name. I've known most of these kids since they were little. Before that church even started.

If he hears my name enough, and gets enough hardball questions from me thru the teens... it will either cause him to avoid me, or open a door for an open conversation where I can issue a strong rebuke.

I dont know. As the Lord leads.

Krispy

M

mguldner Oct 10, 2011

Its a shame and what I feared, your plan sounds like a good one. Prayer is definitely a must. Everyday I see that very soon a Christian is going to have to make a solid and risky (not all that risky since we are dead in Christ) stand on the Word alone. I love the Holiness of God because it humbles me and it also puts the fear of the Lord in my heart, otherwise I would as content as any.

It seems the Word of God is taking the backseat while the methods of men rule and reign. Amos 8:11 is coming to pass

11 “ Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord GOD,

“ That I will send a famine on the land,
Not a famine of bread,
Nor a thirst for water,
But of hearing the words of the LORD."

G

ginnyrose Oct 10, 2011

QUOTE:
Yea, not sure I have the authority to call him on the carpet on this since I have no ties to that church nor have kids there.

Krispy! I am surprised you would make a statement like this! I thought you were more blunt and cared little about position ...Methinks thee needs to go and have a talk with this youth leader! Better yet, befriend him and consider him a mission field and go see what you can harvest.

We live in a world where sin abounds on every side and position should not interfere with ones' witnessing, even if the fellow that needs correcting is from another church. We are called to be witnesses and are not called to limit our witness to unchurched people or those within our own social circle.

Oh, well, do what you feel the LORD would have you do, but I still think you need to have a good talk with that man.

God bless you and Godspeed!

sermonindex Oct 10, 2011

Like I said tho Ginny... I have to be sure that the kids understood this gentleman correctly before I do anything. Thus asking "probing" questions first to find out what he is telling them. I cant just go running in without being absolutely sure.

But rest assured, this guy is on my radar big time.

Krispy

M

MaryJane Oct 10, 2011

Krispy

Been thinking about this since you posted and would ask you to prayerfully consider not using the kids as a go between. I think you should go and see this youth pastor yourself. Share with him in a loving way what was shared with you then give him the chance to respond to you directly. I know if it were me I would want that consideration to at least be asked what was said. I do understand your concern because it is second hand information but all the more reason to go yourself and just ask. IF the young man you know understood correctly and this youth pastor really does believe these things he is reported to have said what a golden opportunity for the LORD to share truth with him. Who knows it could even be that the LORD had you hear this report just so that he could use you in this youth pastors life...

Please know what ever you decide I will be in prayer for you and for the LORDS leading in this.

God bless
maryjane

sermonindex Oct 10, 2011

Good points, MJ. I'm not thinking about hiding behind the kids. I just need to know, before barging in, that what is being reported is actually being taught.

But there is also the sticky situation of "church authority". We, as believers, also have to respect the authority of a pastor of a church. Someone coming in from another church to confront a youth pastor could be seen as usurping the authority of the actual pastor.

You know what I mean?

Krispy

M

MrBillPro Oct 10, 2011

KrispyKrittr.....the dad agrees with the youth pastor. The mom claims she cant understand the Bible so she wont address it.

Well Buddy, when the parents are lost it's really tough on the kids. Pray for the kids that God will open their eyes to this deceit, and also so the kids be able to teach the parents, one word, sickening!

sermonindex Oct 10, 2011

Yea, it is... you also have to respect the authority of the home as well. That doesnt mean that when given the opportunity I dont speak the truth, because I do. Trust me.

Kinda like a family we are close friends with who are devout Catholics. Catholicism is hideous, but we have to be careful not to undermine the way they raise their kids. When opportunities arise I take them... but we pretty much leave it up to our kids to witness to their kids. Great training for our kids.

There is an authority in the home (the dad) and people need to be mindful of that. There are ways of reaching the children, and thus the family... but it takes wisdom.

Krispy

M

MrBillPro Oct 10, 2011

KrispyKrittr...There is an authority in the home (the dad) and people need to be mindful of that.

This could be a good subject to ponder. Are the children "in Gods eyes" to obey that authority even if it's wrong?

sermonindex Oct 10, 2011

This could be a good subject to ponder. Are the children "in Gods eyes" to obey that authority even if it's wrong?

Not if it forces them to sin. Like wives submission to husbands. The unsaved father/husband is the God ordained authority, but if he asks the children/wife to sin against God their first allegiance is to God.

Never any reason to sin. (Not a popular notion in some churches today as sin is rampant.)

Krispy

M

MrBillPro Oct 10, 2011

KrispyKrittr....Never any reason to sin.

Amen Brother! can I get another Amen!

G

ginnyrose Oct 10, 2011

Mary Jane wrote:
Share with him in a loving way what was shared with you then give him the chance to respond to you directly. I know if it were me I would want that consideration to at least be asked what was said. I do understand your concern because it is second hand information but all the more reason to go yourself and just ask. IF the young man you know understood correctly and this youth pastor really does believe these things he is reported to have said what a golden opportunity for the LORD to share truth with him. Who knows it could even be that the LORD had you hear this report just so that he could use you in this youth pastors life...

I agree...you can just tell him you heard thus and thus and is it true? Giving him a chance to explain himself. If, perchance the youth misunderstood him he should know this so he can make himself clear to these young people.

Krispy wrote:
But there is also the sticky situation of "church authority". We, as believers, also have to respect the authority of a pastor of a church. Someone coming in from another church to confront a youth pastor could be seen as usurping the authority of the actual pastor.

Maybe so, but souls are at stake...you are not talking about how often one should have communion or how one should baptize, you are talking about sin - it is a life and death situation.

One can always speak about the Biblical aspect but it may also help you to become knowledgeable of STDs as well. If you care to listen to a good lecture on the subject go to YouTube and listen to Pam Stenzel. She will talk your ears off!

God bless.

T

tbsounde2 Oct 10, 2011

hi guys,

so i was under the impression that "all things are permissible" was paul quoting an erroneous corinthian saying in order to refute it. any thoughts on this?

12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything. 13 "Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food"—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 1 Cor. 6:12-13 (ESV)

12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 1 Cor. 6:12-13 (NIV)

H

hulsey Oct 11, 2011

What Paul was saying to the Corinthians is basically that all things are lawful for the Christian because the Christian uses all things lawfully.

A lawful relationship of the nature of this thread can only exist between a husband and his wife.

But even lawful things can become harmful and even sinful if they master the Christian so Paul says that he will instead master those desires and not live by his fleshly appetites.