Keswick (Deeper Life) Theology - Please Someone Help Me With This!

Hey guys,

I just wanted to ask about Keswick Theology. I know there are guys in this camp such as Watchman Nee, Charles Trumbull, D.L. Moody, Hudson Taylor, and I assume Andrew Murray as well, and pretty much we hear them quote Galatians 2:20, "I'm crucified with Christ, it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith IN/OF the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." It can be called the Abiding Life, the Exchanged Life, Crucified Life, Christ in you etc. But recently I've come across some criticism against this kind of teaching by reformed people like J.I. Packer.

I have a lot of material that is rooted in Keswick theology, like "The Normal Christian Life" by Watchman Nee, I had "The Overcoming Life" by Nee as well, "Victory in Christ" by Charles Trumbull, "The Indwelling Life of Christ" by Major Ian Thomas, "Hudson Taylor's Spiritual Secrets" by Mr. and Mrs. Howard Taylor, "The True Vine" by Andrew Murray, and many others. Their teachings seem biblical, not just found in Galatians 2:20, but in many parts of the Bible, that we ought to rest on the Lord, like Isaiah 40:28-31, Psalm 46:10, Psalm 68:19, John 15:5, Phil. 2:12-13, Phil. 4:13, Col. 1:27, 1 John 4:4, and many more. Can anyone please help me with this?

In Christ,

- Michael Liao

Anybody?

On the "Audio Sermon's" page of this website there are 155 sermons posted by Alan Redpath, and Around 65 Sermons Posted by Major Thomas. The best answer for your questions would be to get out your bible, your journal, get some callouses on your knees and start listening to these preachers and evaluating what they say in light of scripture, with a heart that is willing to learn and a mind that is ready to receive, as well as weigh any false inclinations in the balances of truth.

Both of them were Keswick Preachers, and there are dozens of others on this website.

Just to let everyone know, I am not advocating passivity in the Christian life, as many people have criticized Keswick theology for doing. I just don't have enough background on it.

I think our Reformed brethren got stuck wallowing in the slough of despond of Romans 7 and deny the rest of the Scriptures. This have brought so much shame to the name of Christ, and needs to be stopped.
Denying the exchanged life is denying the power of Christ in the church by the Holy Spirit, Revival, and church history.
Many Reformed characters who had the experience of the exchanged life dared not speak of it in obvious terms lest they be called heretics. Among those Jonathan Edwards, Whitefield, Spurgeon and anyone who was used by God in Revivals or awakenings.

Wow! Really...

Edwards and Whitefield....

I did read up on Spurgeon and how his material was pretty close to it though.....

Not only is this a great place to start, but this is also one of the best sermons on this website in my opinion. It is called "A Grain of Wheat" by Major Ian Thomas. It will give you an excellent encapsulation.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=270&commentView=itemComments

****Edit****

While it is one of my favorites, I realize my simply stating that pre-loads your reception, again value it based on what is said in light of scripture.

This is a good article about George Whitefield experience with the Holy Spirit baptism.
http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/199704/078_whitefield.cfm

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2010/06/30/pietistic-goofiness-how-keswick-theology-nearly-destroyed-j-i-packer/

Here's a link to where J.I. Packer criticizes the Keswick theology. Tell me what you guys think....

In Christ,

- Michael Liao

This is a quote by Jonathan Edwards.

" Once, as I rode out into the woods for my health, in 1737, having alighted from my horse in a retired place, as my manner commonly has been, to walk for divine contemplation and prayer, I had a view that for me was extraordinary, of the glory of the Son of God, as Mediator between God and man, and his wonderful, great, full, pure and sweet grace and love, and meek and gentle condescension. This grace that appeared so calm and sweet, appeared also great above the heavens. The person of Christ appeared ineffably excellent, with an excellency great enough to swallow up all thought and conception — which continued, as near as I can judge, about an hour; which kept me the greater part of the time in a flood of tears, and weeping aloud. I felt an ardency of soul to be, what I know not otherwise how to express, emptied and annihilated; to lie in the dust, and to be full of Christ alone; to love him with a holy and pure love; to trust in him; to live upon him; to serve and follow him; and to be perfectly sanctified and made pure, with a divine and heavenly purity. I have several other times had views very much of the same nature, and which have had the same effects."

Remember this one thing, friend.

Just because multitudes of people may believe with all their heart that God does not exist, some even may take a space craft and soar to the highest hights and not find him, that does not change the immutable truth that (( HE DOES EXIST )). The way is indeed narrow and few there be that find it.

Thanks for the resources,

If I have time, I'll check them out!

In Christ,

- Michael Liao

Quote:

"""Christ in us the hope of glory is the end of the matter and is the reason that we are holy. Thus His Spirit filling us and having control of our lives is what makes us holy before God. And these experiences are many yet can be more pronounced several times in our life in experiencing and meeting with God."""

Amen, Pure Paulean theology, "in Christ", and Christ in us, The fulfillment of the word of God. When God our Father looks at the Cross he sees me, When God looks at me He sees Christ. Praise God, the only way I have of being Holy is by the Christ in me.

In Christ: Phillip

Thanks Brother Greg,

It is true, we don't want to box God in and limit Him with our finite minds. Though there are many names to this as you have brought up in this post, ultimately the application is the same, that is Christ in us, the hope of glory (Col. 1:27). The thing is though, how would you respond to a person who says that Keswick teaching advocates passivity? Of course, I do understand why other Christians would be concerned about that, as the Keswicks do talk about resting in the LORD.....

For example,

Watchman Nee has a quote like this, "This is the secret to the victorious life: we do nothing; He does it all. When we cease, He flows out. The more we cease, the greater He flows."

In Christ,

- Michael Liao

Quote:

"""Watchman Nee has a quote like this, "This is the secret to the victorious life: we do nothing; He does it all. When we cease, He flows out. The more we cease, the greater He flows." """

Yes, Michael; Paul states this perfectly.

Col 1: 28-29 "Perfect in Christ" Our labor according to His working in us mightily". This is the only labor that counts for the kingdom.

In Christ: Phillip

It is interesting to me that passivity would be an accusation against their theology. I think I can understand why, but I would suggest that is either a caricature or a mis-representation of what I understand it to be about. I am far from an expert on it, which is why I hesitate to directly answer your questions. I would probably say something stupid to misrepresent them. However, I can say that books by Andrew Murray, Hudson Taylor, Major Thomas, Alan Redpath, and others who were involved in that movement tend to apply the New Covenant life in the way that makes the most sense to me, and also seems to be how I have understood it.

It is Christ in us, the hope of glory, and yet that will have a direct impact on our lives. As Watchman Nee once said..."The body of Christ is a reality, not a doctrine." John the Baptist also said, "He must increase, and I must decrease." John 3:30

Michaelliao:

I would not say that men such as Whitfield or Spurgeon are totally bad just as I would not say that all of what John Calvin wrote was bad. But I do think Reformed theology has some serious errors.

As to Nee and the like, I have found them to be men who walked in a revelation of God's word that has blessed me in a great way. I am sure I could find things there as well that I do not agree with, but I can tell you that I would wholeheartedly recommend Nee to any believer I meet. I am not familiar with J I Packer but I did read the link in your previous post. It left me scratching my head.

Haha,

I remember Major Ian Thomas said, "Some people imagine that if you bow yourself out and bow the Lord Jesus in, if you die to self-effort and let God do it, that is passivity. Well it is passivity only if you consider God to be passive......"

I know that when it is Christ is in us and working through us, things happen. I mean it's because of listening to the promptings of the Holy Spirit and letting Christ in us flow out, that revivals can break out; that the Light of the World may be revealed in this dark world.

God help us all to rest upon the LORD and to not do things in the flesh...

May we have complete self-abandonment and just cling to the Lord Jesus Christ....

"Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to Thy Cross I cling..."

In Christ,

- Michael Liao