Traditions: Are they good or bad? by Mike Atnip

sermonindex Oct 11, 2011

One doesn’t have to look far to find a dead tradition. They lie around churches like the old tombstones of a church burial ground: rotting, crumbling, and yet too memory-filled to just dump over the hill somewhere.

But what about live traditions? Like faithful apple trees in the graveyard fencerow that bear fruit with the regularity of a ... tradition, they bless souls time and time again.

How do you turn a crumbling tombstone into a live apple tree? At this point my analogy sort of breaks down ...Yet for some people, those old, dead, dry traditions can never be revived: they HAVE to go! They have experienced traditions for years—dead, dry, hollow, and starting to stink—and they KNOW that church life never prospers if it is clogged with the tombstones of centuries gone by.

But come, let us reason together. Is the problem the tradition? Or is it the death?

A number of years ago I experienced a lesson that changed my life’s perspective. For many years I had read of churches (the early church and the early Methodists, for example) and individual Christians who held the tradition of fasting on a certain day a week. “How formal that must be,” I told myself. To have a spiritual discipline like fasting become a weekly tradition?

All I could see was some musty, crumbling tombstones in a churchyard.

But one day the Lord granted me the ability to see a truth that has redeemed me from my suspicion of all things traditional: traditions are what we make them to be.

Fasting once a week on a scheduled day can either be a tombstone or an apple tree. Once I was liberated from my fear of tradition, I picked up the old (and it is very old, dating back to the first centuries of the Christian church) tradition of fasting once a week on a certain day.

And it was like a faithful old apple tree that bore me many blessings! The tradition became alive!

Now I am sure that I could easily turn that tradition into a tombstone. All I have to do is start doing it because I have to instead of because I want to. But as long as I have kept it alive, I have never regretted it. (And I will add that due to schedule issues, I have not kept it up at all times since I began.)

I write these words with a burden. For many years I have watched people react against traditions with the zeal of a religious reformer. Sometimes, yes, traditions do need to go. Or at least it certainly would not hurt anyone if they would disappear. But the problem is not always the tradition. Many times—in fact probably the majority of the time—the tradition is not the problem. The problem lies in the heart of the ones practicing the tradition with the deadness of an abandoned graveyard.

What happens when you sing a Gregorian chant with all your spirit tuned to the singing of it? It becomes alive! What happens when you give a holy kiss to a brother, with all the holiness and charity within you? It becomes alive! What happens when you revive the old custom of “love feast,” practiced with lots of love? It becomes alive!

Let’s be careful about reacting against traditions, and let’s be careful about maintaining them.

Church traditions are what we make of them. Do it because you have to, and it is a dead tradition. Do it because you want to, and it may become a lifelong, living blessing!

M

MaryJane Oct 11, 2011

Brother Greg

I read your article and will give it much prayer and thought.I do agree with the writer that anything one must do these things because they are lead by the Holy Spirit to do them and not because of what men say. I think for me my struggles from traditions and keeping them comes in when those around you, those who hold to them as a means of determining a persons walk does not allow you the liberty in CHRIST not to keep them. There are those who cling to their traditions and hold them so dear, sadly there is no room for what the LORD might be showing another in their walk...

God bless will be away for a time
Maryjane

sermonindex Oct 11, 2011

Maryjane writes.........

"I think for me my struggles from traditions and keeping them comes in when those around you, those who hold to them as a means of determining a persons walk does not allow you the liberty in CHRIST not to keep them. There are those who cling to their traditions and hold them so dear, sadly there is no room for what the LORD might be showing another in their walk..."

Sister, I believe that you have hit the nail on the head. There is love, and there is judgement. People are not stupid, whether they are saved or unsaved, they know the difference. I think the author would agree with your point.......brother Frank

sermonindex Oct 11, 2011

With all of the emphasis on Turtullien and Cyprian, have we forgotten what the Apostle Paul wrote. Did not Paul say in Acts 20:21 that he preached that men should turn to God in repentence and have faith in our Lord Jesus. Is not our walk with Christ a walk of faith and not works. Am I missing something here?

Respectfully submitted,

Blaine

U

UntoBabes Oct 11, 2011

Hello Martyr,

Just a few thoughts to share and would like to know what you think if you wish.

Traditions is the most despised word among the people of God and the unsaved world alike.
Yet traditions is what Mary Peckham calls in her account of the revival on the Isle of Lewis “ The fuel the caught the fire of the Holy Spirit”. She describes the life on the island before the revival as a life of traditions where the Scriptures were taught in schools, both saved and unsaved were committed to prayer, Scripture reading in their homes. Both saved and unsaved were taught the catechism. Tradition is not salvation but preparation of the way of the Lord.

Traditions is preparing the way of the Lord that John the Baptist came to do. It is the call to repentance to the people of God that have gone astray and grown cold, Only the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
But why the house of Israel if they were lost. What makes the difference between lost and lost.
The answer is tradition. The lost people of God ( if you permit the expression )are those who have head knowledge of the ways of God, those who experienced His deliverances in the past, Who posses His fear in their hearts, who have been entrusted to His Word.

In His book “ A Serious Call To A Devout And Holy Life” William Law paved the way to the Great Awakening through its influence on John, and Charles Wesley, George Whitefield to conventional piety and Christian perfection although the book itself hardly contains a Gospel message.
The Holy Club consisted of unsaved people who sought the Lord through sever fasting and long hours of prayer whom God saved, filled with the Holy Spirit and used to change the fabric of England.

Traditions is the fear of God that must come back to the church if God is to ever revive, bend her and save the world.

In the book “ Back To Jerusalem” Chinese believers give credit to the Communist authorities who in their efforts to demolish Christianity have paved the way to the spread of the Gospel. Some of the key factors that helped the spread of the gospel were that much of China’s idolatry was removed during the Cultural Revolution, People were FORCED to denounce their wrong doings and reform their lives in what was known as the “Culture of Confession” .

Tradition is the way by which Cornelius sought the Lord thus opening the way to the Gentile church of whom Peter said “ Truly I perceive that God has no respect of Persons but in every nation he that fears him, and works righteousness, is accepted with him.”

However, traditions must be coupled by hunger of more of God. It is not enough to fear him, repent of our evil ways, fast and pray as if He is to be so pleased by it. Traditions is not salvation but it is the fuel that catches it’s flame.

Have you been grieved when Bibles were taken out of schools? If you have, what made you grieve?
Does it break your heart that America is becoming a secular nation? That family values are being torn apart by the liberals? Does it grieve you that the majority of people do not believe in hell anymore? That gay rights are being promoted? Why do you grieved? Would you like to have Cornelius of the book of Acts for a neighbor, or a liberal gay though they both may be unsaved and both need the Lord?

D

dietolive Oct 11, 2011

Yes, Brother Greg; yes, the author is exactly spot on.

The early Church, (and the early Methodists for that matter), appear "legalistic" and "dead" to us in the West today because of our mis-preconceptions about Biblical soteriology and discipleship. Then we see them doing "dead Catholic" looking things, like fasting on a day or two of every week, or praying a certain number of times a day.

It isn't surprising then that we are in danger of over-reacting, and then running them, their doctrines, and their practices down. Then, this pervading spirit of "reactionism" (it is to be feared), also can lead us to actively discourage our Brothers and Sister today, who still follow the like traditions, or otherwise seek to rob them of their joy in their practices that differ from ours.

Jesus said, (paraphrasing): "Treat others the way you would want to be treated." If we do this in every case, we will do well.

One example:
William Wilberforce apparently put a rock in one of his shoes every day; this to remind a wealthy and influential politician in the most powerful nation on earth at that time, that he was still just a lowly servant of his Lord Jesus Christ; powerless to do any good unless God first deigned to bestow the necessary grace.

Dear Brother or Sister: If you daily "put a rock in your shoe", (or whatever your tradition may be), and it is a living means of grace in your life too, then praise God! I am thankful to God for a tradition that works more of God's life into your life.

Be well all,
Doug

sermonindex Oct 11, 2011

Sister your post contained some interesting observations. In a nutshell yes God can use traditions to bring sinners into a marvelous relationship with Jesus. Afterall even the law becomes a tutor to bring one to Christ.

But what of those people who have no traditions. Example the vilest, most depraved biker who rides with an outlaw biker gang. That biker finds a New Testament. He reads it and is covicted of his sins. He calls out to Jesus for mercy and is gloriously converted. Now that biker is sharing the love if Jesus with his other biker buddies. VOM reports how hardened Marxist guerillas in Columbia with no traditions will respond to the gospel message of the love of Jesus. I have seen the videos where they lay down the AK47's and go down on their knees confessing Christ.

I don't know if I am responding to your post. You seem to imply that God can use tradition to bring revival and conversion. True. But also God is sovereign and his Spirit blows where it will igniting. hearts with faith. And I think therein lies the thing that troubles ne.

In my thread What About the Early Church I have been reasoning for a greater dependence upon the Spirit. Yet there seen to be some who would take issue with this. It seems the freedom and joy the Spirit eould bring is pretty scary for those secure in rules.

Just my thoughts.

Blaine

U

UntoBabes Oct 11, 2011

Hello Martyr,
Yes you are right about the marvelous conversions in Third world countries who are already experiencing revival. The unsaved sre lead to Christ by believers who are filled by the Holy Spirit.

That does not contradict God's design which is the church living in constant revival causes the salvation of the world.
The church here in the West is dead. They are much like Israel in her backslidden state. They are the wayward people of God who need to repent, fast, pray, put on sackcloth and ashes. They are the ones that need to repent not the world because they are the ones that know the law of God, His Word.

Revival happens when the churched people saved and unsaved pray, fast, repent of what they know to be sin.
when God sees that they are serious about seeking Him He begins to work. He pours on them the Spirit of Supplication, and reveals to them further sin in their lives that they were unaware of that needs to be repented of and restitutions made.
Slowley but surely as the church is cleansed to the point where it is safe for the Holy Spirit to come down He comes and revival takes place. Then and only then the church is fit to evangalize the world.

So, yes, we need traditions back. We need fasting, long hours of prayer, humbling ourselves as best as we know how. We need Bible memorizations back in the church. We need that Fathers would step and take charge of their homes and father their children. We need the old values to be resrored even if it is to be in the flesh till God decides to come back to the church.

When Goergewhitefield and John and Charles Wesley were fasting and praying they were not yet saved, but God honoured their endeavours and saved them and used them to change a whole nation.

But we live in a generation that talks too much about filthy rags and works of the flesh, you would think that we have Spirit filled people more than the sand of the sea when in fact it is the most spiritually impoverished generation that ever existed. We need the sackcloth back, brother. Don't you agree?

sermonindex Oct 13, 2011

My sister to answer your question in alll gentleness and respect I do not agree. As I read your post it seems you are setting forth traditions as works to get God's attention. Be it salvation, sanctification, or revival any activity of God toward us is grace and grace alone. Paul writes in Titus 2:11-12.......For the grace that brings salvation has appeared.to all men. It teaches us to say 'No' to ungodliness and worldly passions and to live self-controlled, upright, and goodly lives in this present age. .......

I must try to finish this at another opportunity.

But you spoke of traditions bringing about repentence. Sister might I suggest that repentence is a work of the Spirit. John writes in his gospel......

K

Koheleth Oct 13, 2011

martyr said: "As I read your post it seems you are setting forth traditions as works to get God's attention."

You mean like Cornelius in Acts 10?

sermonindex Oct 13, 2011

John 3:8
The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot where it comes from or where it is going. So is everyone born of the Spirit.

John 16:8-11
When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteouness and judgnent; in regard to sin because men do not believe in me,in regard to righteousness because I going to the the father, and in regard to judgment because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life, the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 2:4
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance, and patience not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentence.

It's a sovereign loving work of God in man through his Spirit. Not tradition.

Blaine

U

UntoBabes Oct 13, 2011

Dear brother Martyr

For now I would like to address the verse you quoted in Romans 2:4
After this I would like to disappear for a while and perhaps when I come back we could go over the rest of the verses to understand the context.

Romans 2:4
We will have to read the verses before and after to see the full picture of what Paul is saying.

1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

In Paul’s time, there were two groups of believers, Jews and Gentiles.
Gentiles did not pass judgment on any one because they felt inferior and defiled.
The only one that judged was the Jew.
Paul is not saying it is wrong to judge, but he is saying that to judge and do the same thing is putting oneself under the judgment of God.
When the Jew who rests in the law, and makes his boast of God, knows his will, and approves the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
confident that he himself is a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, has the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law, yet he himself which teach another, teaches not himself? He that preach a man should not steal, does he himself steal?
He that say a man should not commit adultery, does he himself commit adultery? He that abhors idols, does he commit sacrilege?
He that make his boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonor he God? For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through YOU.

Now, why is it so important to take things within the context?
The answer simply lies in the fact that we face these same issues today.

Backslidden Israel is the modern church in America who goes about teaching the unsaved world to repent and trust in Jesus, to forsake their sexual perversions ( homosexuality)and murder ( abortion) when she herself is defiled and ridden with sin.
God still shows her goodness, longsuffering and forbearance v.4
She still has the Word of God available to her in many translation that she spends her time fighting over which one is the best, she still have freedom of worship in big buildings, prosperity.
This is the goodness of God that should lead her to repentance.
But instead of repenting she had rejected the law of her God and turned to idolatry, worldliness.
The Pastors steal sermons one from another, they teach the doctrines of man, and pervert the Word of the Lord, they scatter the sheep, they strengthen the hands of those who do evil and say : No evil will come upon you, The sheep who are rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: who want to hear smooth things, words of deceit.

This is the goodness of God that should lead to repentance, but does the fact that it is not leading to repentance makes it God’s fault.
Is the church in that evil condition because God had withheld repentance, grace and goodness. And if God is hardening the heart of the church in America, is he doing so because of his arbitrary will and pleasure to destroy the wicked or is it because she had rejected the warnings of his Word, despised his covenant, and watered down his fear.

Indeed he will send the Muslims to force the nude daughters of Jerusalem to put on veils. He will put Muslim clerics in the pulpits of his own house to teach the church the law of God., he will send armies of immigrants to eat the fat of the land.
Woe to us, for that which we have feared has come upon us. Because we despised the fear of the Lord and now He Himself is our adversary.

Stay well, brother.

sermonindex Oct 13, 2011

Untobabes

My sister I am somewhat puzzled. At first I thought you were talking about traditions to get God to bring revival. But now you are talking about a back slidden church in America. I think any discerning believer, including myself, would agree with you. I have implored saints in this forum to heed the natural disasters that come up on this land as judgments from God. It is as if God is given us warnings to wake up, for our redemption is drawing near.

My sister I think we are in agreement for the need for revival. But instead of discussing or debating let us pray. I pray with a group of believers on Tuesday nights in a conference call. We call out for revival. Come and pray with us. Are you familiar with the persecuted church? Do you kniw about the shipping containers of Eritrea, the death camps of N. Korea, or those imoprisoned in China?. I moderarate a call of intercessors from across the country where we pray for the persecuted church. Come and pray with us. We meet 3 times a week. Even tonight we have a call. Email me and I will give you or any other forum member the call info.

My sister I see to much talking and very little praying. I challenge you in love and gentleness come and pray with us. Edmond Burke said in order for evil to triumph is for a few good saints to do nothing. That is ny adaptation. So I ask you dear sister. Do you want to do something, then please come on our calls and pray with us. Please email me and I will gladly give you call info. My email is in my profile.

Blaine