Not all recieve the Holy Spirit, because not all ask to recieve it!

Hello brethren! Something I've come to understand recently is the doctrine of the Baptism of the Spirit or the Second Baptism. When I became a Christian and read of the miracles of Jesus, the Acts of the Apostles and the promise of Christ that "whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do" made me realize I had no ability to do likewise. I began to pray and beg God to give me this Spirit of power. One night as I was praying, I felt the presence of the Holy Spirit in the room with me. My skin tingled all over and I was filled with an immense sense of joy, love and peace and completeness. This is the Baptism of the Spirit.

Related scriptures include Luke 11:11-13:
"If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ASK him!”

Acts 8:14:
"Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria HAD RECIEVED the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, who came down and PRAYED for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, for he HAD NOT YET fallen on any of them, but they had only been BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them and they RECIEVED the Holy Spirit."

Notice they heard the word and were baptized, but didn't receive the Spirit until the Apostles prayed and laid on hands.

Matthew 22:
"And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. Again he sent other servants, saying, 'Tell those who are invited, See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.' But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.' And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.

"But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. And he said to him, 'Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless. Then the king said to the attendants, 'Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' For many are called, but few are chosen."

I have come to believe the wedding garment is the Holy Spirit and those without it are not Christ's.

Romans 8:14
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, THESE are sons of God."

Lastly 2 Corinthians 13:5 says
"Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ IS IN YOU?—unless indeed you FAIL to meet the test!"

I hope this builds up. I appreciate any disagreements or criticism.

Hi njhoover.

I think you connect some of the spriptures not in the correct way. "Garment" is something we put on, it signifies something outward we wear or do. The Holy Spirit is a person, we don't wear a person. This comparison doesn't work very well.

Look how garment is used here:

Revelation 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

It's a personal way of conduct, they have defiled their garments, to what the remedy is to overcome (sin) - and so their name will not be blotted out of the book of life. And He said this to them by first calling that church in general "dead". And then specifies that "a few" of them are not defiled. The Holy Spirit is always holy, He is not subject to defilement, so this cannot be the distinction here.

Here the Spirit is called the Comforter, a person that is given to those that love Jesus and are willing to do whatever he says:

John 14:15  If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Quote:- Hello brethren! Something I've come to understand recently is the doctrine of the Baptism of the Spirit or the Second Baptism.

Are you sure

Quote:- One night as I was praying, I felt the presence of the Holy Spirit in the room with me. My skin tingled all over and I was filled with an immense sense of joy, love and peace and completeness.

I rejoice with and remember the day where when I asked God to change me I wasn’t a Christian the very opposite, I didn’t go church, but I was fed up being violent and knew that if I didn’t get help I would end up killing someone… As I prayed the simple prayer God change me I fed up being like this and laid down on my bed..

What happened next was a wind left me after it left a wind blew into me (a physical wind one which I could feel) and I sat up in bed and spoke in tongues…

I cant deny what happened to me that night and I never will, but as I have gone on in my life I have come to a different way at looking being Baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Well what is this different way of looking at it you may ask well there is a quote on this post:-

Quote:- You had been better praying for the Spirit of holiness aka the Holy Spirit. Many are deceived on this point.

Look at what Peter says in Acts 15:8-9 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

God acknowledged them (1)by giving them the Holy Spirit (2)AND purifying there hearts..

So this violent man who was radically changed to a totally different person that later stage Christian walk comes to a different way of thinking after a time of fasting and prayer. That after that time of fasting and prayer God reveals to him that there still remains in him the remnant of Sin.

That SIN remains in the believer after conversion.

That this SIN is so rapped up in your personality and in who you are that you believe it to be you. God in his mercy also revealed that he has made provision to deal with that SIN that remains…

Look at the Corinthian church their internal squabbles and sexual immorality. Paul makes it very plain in his letter that the Corinthian Christians, though they had the gifts of the Spirit in operation in their church, were nevertheless "carnal" (3:1-4)

You see its not enough to say we can talk in tongues or can operate in the gifts, as we can talk in tongues until we are blue in the face and yet be “carnal” and when we have elevated to a place of importance that SIN that remains will destroy us and the name of Jesus will be mocked because our heart has not been clean and we have been deceived by the SIN that remains in us.

The church today needs to be Holy, believers today need to be Holy…its not enough to say I can talk in tongues I operate in the gifts of the spirit, I say this even though I talk in tongues and can operate in the gifts.

We must be able to say, the church must be able say that our hearts have been purified. Then you’ll see the church, Gods people move in ways we have only read or heard about…

Lord, make me as holy as a pardoned sinner can be made Quote :- Robert Murray McCheyne

Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

What promise, The Holy Spirit of promise. None of these ask for the Holy Spirit which God Poured out at Pentecost and in them to fulfill the statement in many different places; "He is with you and shall be in you".

In Christ: Phillip

"There can be NO conversaion without the Holy Spirit."

True. No one can approach Christ unless the Father allows it. Conviction doesn't come without the Holy Spirit. The scripture does make a distinction between being called by the Spirit and receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit. The verse I quoted in my first post is a perfect example.

Acts 8:14:
"Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria HAD RECIEVED the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, who came down and PRAYED for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, for he HAD NOT YET fallen on any of them, but they had only been BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them and they RECIEVED the Holy Spirit."

Notice the progression: Received the word (believed the word), baptized, THEN the Spirit fall on them after PRAYER for the Spirit.

"You had been better praying for the Spirit of holiness aka the Holy Spirit. Many are deceived on this point."

Allow me to disagree:
2 Timothy 1:7
"for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of POWER and love and self-control."

Characterizing the Spirit as the "Spirit of power" is not at all unbiblical and just reflects one of its attributes.

"I think you connect some of the spriptures not in the correct way. "Garment" is something we put on, it signifies something outward we wear or do. The Holy Spirit is a person, we don't wear a person. This comparison doesn't work very well."

I will concede on this point. Perhaps I am wrong. Though scripture does mention the Spirit in terms of clothing in one instance:

Luke 24:49
"And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are CLOTHED with power from on high."

I would encourage others to read past threads:
"You Need the Baptism of the Holy Spirit - Wilkerson"
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=24862&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go

And the sermon by Wilkerson:
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=15234&commentView=itemComments

Sermon by Tozer:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=62007205514

"This is a very controversial topic..."
I am in agreement with you here brother. I don't mean to stir up dissension, just to pass on the teaching entrusted to me.

David Wilkerson expounds on the reality and importance of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in his book The Cross and the Switchblade. He explains that at Teen Challenge, one of the keys to breaking heroin addiction was for the kids to seek this filling of the Holy Spirit.

Page 157:
"The Book of Acts tells us of five different times when people received this experience," I said, "and the early Pentecostals noticed four out of five of these times, the people who were baptized with the Holy Spirit began to speak in tongues."

Page 162:
"Roberto took one look at me and leaped to his feet; and my heart leaped with him. "I want everything God has for me," he said. "I want to make it through and never come back." Roberto fairly ran to the front of the chapel. He grabbed Nicky's hands and put them on his own head. Almost immediately the same thing happened to this boy that had happened to my Grandfather; he began to tremble as if a current were flowing through him. He fell to his knees, and the other boys stood around him, praying. It was like reliving a scene from the Book of Acts. In less than two minutes a new language was flowing from Roberto's lips."

In the related book Run Baby Run, Nicky Cruz describes his struggle to be filled with the Holy Spirit or to be Baptized with it.

Page 192:
"I didn't know how to pray except out loud and I got louder and louder. I would kneel at the altar and cry out to God, "Baptize me, baptize me, baptize me!" But nothing happened."

He gets baptized on page 196:
"Some thing moved in my soul. It was as though someone had turned on a faucet, slowly at first. Then I began to fill up."

Dwight L. Moody received the baptism years after becoming a minister (from the webpage: http://www.exchangedlife.com/Sermons/topical/holyspirit/baptism_spirit1.shtml):

"D.L. Moody was a successful minister but by his own admission later, he lacked the power in his ministry. One day two women came up to him after a service. They said,
"We have been praying for you."
"Why don't you pray for the people?" he asked.
"Because you need the power of the Spirit," they said.
"I need the power! Why," said Mr. Moody, in relating the incident years after, "I thought I had power. I had the largest congregations in Chicago, and there were many conversions.”

Moody also said that in a sense, he was satisfied. He was in a comfort zone. But these two praying women rocked the boat. They told him that they were praying for an anointing by the Holy Spirit for D.L. to have a special service to God. He could not get this off his mind and he said, “There came a great hunger in my soul. I did not know what it was and I began to cry out to God as never before. I felt I did not want to live if I could not have this power for service”.

After the great fire of Chicago, DL was working to raise money to rebuild a tabernacle. He said his heart was not into it because he kept crying out to God to fill him. He withdrew and prayed during a visit to New York to raise money and he cried that God would fill him with His Spirit. DL describes it this way:

“Well, one day, in the city of New York -- oh, what a day! -- I cannot describe it, I seldom refer to it; it is almost too sacred an experience to name. Paul had an experience of which he never spoke for fourteen years. I can only say that God revealed Himself to me, and I had such an experience of His love that I had to ask Him to stay His hand. I went to preaching again. The sermons were not different; I did not present any new truths, and yet hundreds were converted. I would not now be placed back where I was before that blessed experience if you should give me all the world -- it would be as the small dust of the balance.”

We don't receive salvation in parts and peaces. We get the whole at God's rebirthing His Son in us at conversion or if you like at regeneration by Justification. The only thing we receive in parts and peaces is the renewing of our mind to the Mind of Christ, Sanctification, to the wisdom God has made Christ unto us, 1 Cor 1:30,that is precept upon precept and line upon line. This is done by revelation of the Holy Spirit to the Mind of Christ which we "have" at salvation by believing God, that, Jesus Christ is the Son of God and He died in our place and gives us new life in Himself, comforted and taught by revelation of the Holy Spirit "Parakleet"-Teacher. If we ask for more of the Holy Spirit, we are in error, we have all of Him, you cannot divide the person Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit, in asking we are simply agreeing with the Word of God, that which we already have, it is like the garment we have in the closet, we have it, all we have to do is put it on.

In Christ: Phillip

God works it seems to me in scripture in different ways with different men (and women) some things are equal for all, salvation etc. But as for the Holy Spirit from my understanding some may receive "the fullness of the spirit" from their christian birth, some may "ask" for it later. By this i do not mean to separate christ from the holy spirit, I mean it as when we are saved we have christ, we have all of him and what he has done, yet there is a growing in him, growing of more christlike character and humility and love.

A greater separation from sin and worldliness. And from the word it seems many had a "second blessing" or whatever name we call it by, after salvation some had a second encounter that deepened their walk, their boldness in christ and their faith.

By this i also do not mean as some say that the second blessing means you will ALWAYS upon receiving this by faith speak in tongues or some other sure sign, you may if God gives you this gift or you may not. But still i am at this stage of my walk and understanding that there is available for all believers that has faith for a deeper work and this is Gods equipping us for his work through us in our lives.

God bless you and let us seek all to be more moved and filled with Him and His spirit.

brother christian

So are you saying that some Christians who have been truly regenerated and saved by the grace of God do not have the Holy Spirit in their lives? And that in order to have the Holy Spirit in their lives they must do so by way of works (asking for it and believing)? In other words they must earn it... by making the right decision, which would be deciding to ask God for it?

Does this not elevate man just a smidgen? In other words, if things are as you have interpretted scripture to say that they are... then you are a better child of God than someone else because you were smart enough to ask God for the Holy Spirit, and exercised more of your own conjured up faith in order to receive it.

Is this correct?

By the way, I'm not knocking The Cross and the Switchblade... but I'm only concerned about what the Bible says.

Krispy

Krispy: I can give you my best understanding on the issue. Someone mentioned that it is a controversial issue. Perhaps it can be.

I believe scripture clearly teaches that the Holy Spirit is involved in the work of regeneration at salvation. I believe before salvation we are dead as far as our ability to relate to God spiritually. After regeneration we are now alive as far as our relationship with God through the Spirit is concerned. We have a lot of different terms we use in connection with this experience at salvation. We use terms such as "having the Holy Spirit" or "getting the Holy Spirit" or even "being filled with the Holy Spirit." I am not sure if all of our terminology really helps as there are often different meanings attached to these words according to different doctrinal leanings.

In the book of Acts we find 120 believers who spend nearly 50 days tarrying for some event during which they would be indued with power from on high. Now it is not as if the Holy Spirit had never been involved in the affairs of this earth before. The Holy Spirit of God was present at creation as He brooded over the waters and has been intimately involved with man ever since. So this is not the "coming to earth" of the third person of the Godhead for the very first time. We say the "outpouring of the Holy Spirit", but I am not sure that is really helpful terminology to some people.

We do find that these people were already believers, having put their faith in a dead, buried, and risen savior and His sacrifice for their righteousness. To me it begs the question, "If these people were already believers and if the Holy Spirit was not 'coming for the first time' then surely they were already 'filled' right?" Or is there something else going on here?

Paul asked a group of believers if they had received the Holy Ghost since they believed. They were not sure what he was talking about but when he had laid hands on them they also received just as had happened in Acts 2. Again the question arises, "So did these people not "have the Holy Spirit" before this event? If not how is it that they are called believers?"

So you see the questions and the problems that certain phrases cause in the course of asking the questions.

Here is my understanding from scripture. There is a baptism in to Christ (salvation) in which there is a regeneration of the spirit and a opening of communion with God through the Holy Spirit. The person of the Holy Spirit is involved in this transaction absolutely. There is also a second baptism in the Holy Spirit. I agree with many that this baptism produces in the believer power, boldness, holiness, intimacy, gifts, etc. as we see in Acts, 1 Cor., etc. It seem scripturally to be subsequent to and separate from salvation as can be seen in the aforementioned examples from Acts. It was specifically promised by Jesus in John 14-17 or so.

Saying this does not demean Salvation, nor is it about man's effort. We repent and receive salvation not of our own works. We ask and received the baptism of the Holy Spirit not of our own works. But I can tell you from personal experience that this gift from God produces in a man such amazing things and that the Christian walk is attended to with so much more power and victory having received this baptism.

Don't know Krispy if that answers the question or not, but I hope it helps the discussion.

Phillip

Quote: We don't receive salvation in parts and peaces....If we ask for more of the Holy Spirit, we are in error, we have all of Him, you cannot divide the person Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit...

For that statement to be true it would mean that the Holy Spirit was absent from Jesus until the Holy Spirit descended upon him during his water baptism.

How could the Spirit refill that which was already full? I think the Holy Spirit can be received in different capacities. I expect the Holy Spirit was present in Jesus from birth, yet he received a specific anointing at the point of baptism which is probably linked to the His ministry that started at that point.

Personally I think anointing and spiritual gifts are linked directly to one's calling/ministry. If we are saved but not that interested in God's work (and the gifts that he provides for it) we cannot expect to hold an anointing equal to those that are.

I think it is important not to confuse salvation with specific Anointings, Spiritual Gifts, and Ministeries. The Holy Spirit is given to us upon salvation as a seal. That doesn't mean the same Spirit cannot 're-visit' us in a different capacity.

Note that in Acts the beginning of a Christian's ministry often began with the laying on of hands. God also intructed Moses to lay hands on Joshua to pass on the ministry.

1 Corinthians ch.12-14 deal with the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Many people write off the gifts using Chapter 13's conclusion that "Love is above all", however immediately after (14.1) Pauls instructs us to zealously seek after the the gifts with the aim of edifying the church. He is talking to believers here so there is obviously "something more".

On the topic of "Anointing by measure" also notice that Jesus stated that power had left him when the woman touched his cloak for healing.

PassingThru

May I humbly make a suggestion. Before more "opinions" are posted could I suggest actually doing a bit of research and then returning to the topic?

May I suggest going through the entirety of the New Testament and keep a log of each time these two phrases are mentioned-

1. The Spirit WITHIN
2. The Spirit UPON

You will find abundant references to each. However, you will also find that each has its own particular purpose and function. Both are critically important. However, to have water WITHIN me is not the same thing as having water UPON me.....but I do not wish to skew the research.

Also note the difference in FRUIT of the Spirit in contrast to GIFTS of the Spirit. Both are again critically important... but they are obviously NOT the same thing.

I challenge the SI posters to actually read the New Testament and do the research NOT looking to find scripture to defend a cherished point of view but rather to actually find truth... even if it contradicts your mostly deeply held beliefs. That is the only way to true knowledge, IMHO.

Blessings,

Solomon101

PS- the use of caps in this post is simply for emphasis on a particular thought. No "yelling" was intended

PassingThru wrote:

Quote: """For that statement to be true it would mean that the Holy Spirit was absent from Jesus until the Holy Spirit descended upon him during his water baptism."""

This baptism had nothing to do with the Spirit in Christ. This was to show that His righteousness was perfect and His Sonship true and Faithful to His Father who was God.

Matthew 3:15-17 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

"Upon" Him, not in Him. As witnessed by the rest of the Trinity, God the Holy Spirit like a dove and The Voice of God from heaven. """This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.""" Jesus did not have to ask for this.

This witness of His righteousness and His ability and capacity to begin His work on this earth, The Father had given Him before the foundation of the world. EPH 1:4. Slain before the foundation and from the foundation.
Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The Cross, The Cross, Nothing I cling to but the Cross. As Paul said, "Preach nothing but Christ and Him Crucified.

In Christ: Phillip