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The Christian's Appearance - a tract

sermonindex Nov 1, 2011


The Christian is to take up his cross and follow Christ. Those who are born anew in Jesus Christ are new creatures in him and have "put off the old man with his deeds [and] put on the new man which is renewed in knowledge" (Col. 3:9, 10). Because of this change, they will no longer live by the world's life style. As Paul wrote, "Be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God" (Rom. 12:2). This is a central truth in the Christian knowing what the will of God is.

To "be not conformed to the world" is to "be not fashioned according to the world" (ASV) and "do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world" (NIV). This is the natural outcome of discipleship, in response to the preceding verse: "by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service" (Rom 12:1). This can be done by being "transformed by the renewing of your mind" (v. 2b). The two actions allow the Christian to "prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God" (v. 2b).

These truths will effect the Christian's appearance and dress. The serious Christian will not follow the fashions of the sinful world. The world is not interested in living a life patterned after the Word. The unregenerate prefer dress that draws attention to their bodies, and which reflects extravagant and changing fashions. Christ spoke of the danger men face: "That whosoever looketh on a women to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Matt. 5:28). The motivation behind the Christian woman's appearance is not to draw undue attention to the physical form of her body. The Christian man, likewise, should seek a godly appearance. There are evils to avoid and principles to follow in Scripture for proper Christian dress.

Paul, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, wrote about Christian attire: "that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefaceness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array" (I Tim. 2:9, 10). Another version states,

that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefastness and sobriety; not with braided hair, and gold or pearls or costly raiment. ASV
I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive cloths, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. NIV

The Christian women should dress modestly and not costly, or outlandish, to draw attention to herself.
Paul is not the only New Testament writer who addressed the Christian's style of dress. Peter, through the same guidance of the Holy Spirit, wrote that Christian "adorning let it not be that outward adorning of platting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or putting on of apparel: But let it be the hidden man of the heart, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price" (I Pet. 3:3, 4).

Whose adorning let it not be the outward adorning of braiding the hair, and of wearing jewels of gold, or of putting of apparel; but let it be the hidden man of the heart. ASV
Let not yours be the outward adorning with braiding of hair, decoration of gold, and wearing of fine clothing, but let it be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable jewel of a gentle and quiet spirit. RSV

Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine cloths. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. NIV.

The KJV and ASV versions are not as clear today as was when they were written. It would be absolutely ridiculous to think that Christian women would not put on clothing. The problem is that "apparel" referred to robes or fine clothing when the KJV was written. The Christian women should not be vain in appearance to attract attention to her body. It is not fancy and fashionable outward adornment that is important but the hidden inner self, that is, the women's heart or personality. "These Christian virtues are far more than adornments which are put on for a while so that men may see and admire and are then taken off again" (Lenski).
Both Paul and Peter's mention of platting or braiding the hair does not refer to the simple braids many young Mennonite, Amish or other girls have, but to first century's elaborate and startling coiffures.

Since women do not generally look upon men as men look to them, Christian women may not think modesty is all that important. Because of this they should pay attention to what their father or husband, if married, or the church says about dress. If they don't, they can get caught up in the immodest life style of the world.

Clarke writes about the form of early dress in I Timothy 2:9:
That women adorn themselves, kai tas yunaikas en katastol kosmio. The apostle seems to refer here to different parts of the Grecian and Roman dress. The stola seems to have been originally very simple. It was a long piece of cloth, doubled in the middle, and sewed up both sides, leaving room only for the arms; at the top, a piece was cut out, or a slit made, through which the head passed. It hung down to the feet, both before and behind, and was girded with the zona round the body , just under the breasts. It as sometimes made with, sometimes without, sleeves; and, that it might sit the better, it was gathered on each shoulder with a band or buckle. Some of the Greek women wore them open on each side, from the bottom up above the knees, so as to discover a part of the thigh. These were termed phainomarides, showers (discoverers) of the thigh; but it was, in general, only young girls or immodest women who wore them thus.
The katastola seems to have been the same as the pallium or mantle, which, being made nearly in the form of the stola, hung down to the waist, both in back and front, was gathered on the shoulder with a band or buckle, had a hole or slit at the top for the head to pass through, and hung loosely over the stola, without being confined by the zona or girdle. . . . A more modest and becoming dress than the Grecian was never invented; it was, in great measure, revived in England about the year 1805, and in it, simplicity, decency, and elegance were united; but it soon gave place to another mode, in which frippery and nonsense once more prevailed. It was too rational to last; and too much like religions simplicity to be suffered in a land of shadows, and a world of painted outsides.

With shame facedness and sobriety. The stola, catastola, girdle, etc., though simple in themselves, were often highly ornamented both with gold and precious stones; and, both among Grecian and Roman women, the hair was often crisped and curled in the most variegated and complex manner. To this the apostle alludes when he says: . . . Not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearl, or costly raiment.

With shame-facedness or modesty, meta aidous. This would lead them to avoid every thing unbecoming or meretricious in the mode or fashion of their dress.

With sobriety, meta swphrosuvas. Moderation would lead them to avoid all unnecessary expense. They might follow the custom or costume of the country as to dress itself, for nothing was ever more becoming than the Grecian stola, catastola, and zona; but they must not imitate the extravagance of those who, through impurity or little of mind, decked themselves merely to attract the eye of admiration, or set in lying action the tongue of flattery. Woman has been invidiously defined: An animal fond of dress. How long will they permit themselves to be thus degraded?

Clarke seemed to have caught the sense of Paul's thoughts on dress. The modest dress he described is a long ways from the current world and Christian idea of proper dress. The first-century Christians could follow the general dress style of their culture with some minor modification, but twentieth-century Christian women surely cannot follow today's popular dress standards. Clarke's ending question concerning dress-"How long will they permit themselves to be thus degraded?"-needs answering. The answer of Christians should be, "No longer!" They should throw away their slacks and blue jeans, and their form-fitting and short dresses and adapt a form of dress following the biblical standards. It sure would be a noble act of Christian women to adopt the stola or the Mennonite and other plain groups' modification of it, the cape dress. These clearly are designed to modestly cover the body. Churches should encourage Christian women to look away from the world's patterns to such a dress pattern, not in a legalistic way, but in a way that encourages Christians to follow biblical standards.
There is another area of woman's dress that the Scripture speaks to, that is, the wearing of slacks, jeans, etc. First, let us say these should have no place in the Christian woman's life because they are immodest.

Secondly, these type of cloths are condemned as an abomination by God. Deuteronomy 22:5 states, "A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, shall a man put on a woman's garment; for whoever does these is an abomination to the Lord thy God." Well, one might say, isn't this a part of the Mosaic Law that Christ done away with? Brenneman answers this objection. Concerning a study of Deuteronomy, Brenneman wrote:

It seems clear there are certain things that our holy God abhors and despises. Among these are idolatry, deviate sexual behavior, using the power of Satan in an attempt to determine the future, taking unfair economic advantages of another through false measurement, and the breaking down of the distinction between the sexes in clothing.
What are the implications of this? All of us would agree that the above list with the exception of the last item are things which are eternally wrong because of their very nature. We conclude they are still despised by God. His holy nature revolts against them. Therefore they are not mere Old Testament prohibitions but abiding principles based on the nature of God. But what about Deuteronomy 22:5?

Dare we say that clothing does not involve a moral issue? The other sins mentioned in this study are unquestionably evil. Dare we conclude that because our American culture approves a certain practice that it also has the blessing of God? Would we not be far safer in saying that any form of dress which tends to break down the distinction between male and female in any way is to be avoided because the eternal holy God calls it an abomination? The Word of God, not peer pressure or cultural approval, is our only safe guide (from "Abomination, A Word Study," Pastoral Messenger, reprinted in the Sword and Trumpet, April 1978).

Thus slacks, jeans, etc. are not to be worn because they are immodest and called an abomination by God.
A Christian must remember that the way a person dresses is a definite indication of what kind of person he or she is. Attire can be an important part of our testimony. Dress for both man or woman should respect the Bible principles of modesty, with ornamentation, non-conformed to the fads and fashions of the world, and express humility and simplicity.

A person should ask himself, What does my dress tell others about me? Does it draw attention to the me or bring glory to God? Am I consistence in my dress? Some can see the Bible's commands of not wearing gold, pearls, and such but have no problem wearing look-a-likes. Gold-colored watches, round pearl-like buttons, etc. This is legalism, that is, living according to the letter of law and not according to the spirit of the Word. "Soft jewelry," things like ties, lace, ruffles, etc., can also be in violation of the tenor of the Scripture speaking on adornment. Whenever we look at the Word of God, let us keep the principles in mind and not violate or avoid the intent of its teachings.

Improper dress should not be a problem for the Christians, and if it is, the person should do some soul searching. The person who has repented, being born again, and having taken up his cross to follow Christian should lovingly and joyfully followed the Word.

sermonindex Nov 1, 2011

Why is there a need to talk so much about outward things rather than inward things, lately? Especially outward things pertaining to women?

I always thought it was so much better to let the women teach the women. Mature sisters are very capable. When a man is always talking about these things that pertain to women, it seems more frustration based than anything. What's the reason for all of this?

G
ginnyrose Nov 1, 2011

QUOTE:
"Why is there a need to talk so much about outward things rather than inward things, lately? Especially outward things pertaining to women?"

What one does is a reflection of the inner man. To say you can be pure inwardly but not have it evidenced outwardly is a contradiction of scripture.

There are many who will declare that ones conduct means little, it is the heart, that is what counts. A person can put on a show of piety and be as corrupt inwardly as can be. But what is being promoted by popular Christianity is that one can look vile outwardly but be pure inwardly. AHhmmm, Bro. James writings speak otherwise - "Faith without works is dead."

Sir,it helps a woman a lot when her husband encourages her to be modest. There are too many so-called Christian men who encourage otherwise. They like to show off their wife's femininity in a vulgar manner that is so unbecoming to godliness because it incites lust.

QUOTE:
"I always thought it was so much better to let the women teach the women. Mature sisters are very capable."

Gasp! It was tried on the head covering thread ...[EDITED]

Have a good day.

B
brothagary Nov 1, 2011

ginny that is ware the godly jelousy is missing in many husbans,,,,,,,,,how could they want to show off there wifes like that ,,,,,theres a root of pride involved in that

E
Enochh Nov 1, 2011

Julius u will know a tree by its fruit. a woman who dress's to "fit in" and get mans attention. Isn't seperating herself from the world and craves mans approval. I for one greatly appreciate such post as they teach me. I after several attempts to find a good bible believing church in my area where I wasn't either distracted or judging the women (99% of them) who came to worship in skin tight pants or form hugging dress's opt to avoid such a service. now I attend Time Square church via web cast. I sooooo long for a fellowship with believers (thus my 6 hour drive to see keith daniel) but why subject my self to the smutt of the world when I am trying to worship...Its the old story of boiling a frog. If you put a frog in boiling water he will jump out. But if you slowly increase the heat he will sit there and cook. The church said nothing on this subject for so long we just sat in the water and are boiling now. Now it has to be shouted loud and often for mens (and womens) lives are at stake.

sermonindex Nov 1, 2011

You are all missing my point but I certainly hear your many frustrations. I think I understand why the outward is being preached about over and over again. Something is missing on the inside.


R
roadsign Nov 1, 2011

QUOTE: Why is there a need to talk so much about outward things rather than inward things, lately? Especially outward things pertaining to women?

Great questions!!
I suspect many reasons. Firstly, everyone can see what women wear, but no one can see the heart – like of the men who prefer sexy looking women, and exploit women’s need to please them.

Attire is something you can pinpoint, address, and control. Not so for the hidden forces at work – such as values, emotional hunger, various forms of desire, greed, etc. What about the sexualization of culture driven by powerful white male dominated industries (ex the music video, fashion industry).

And so, females become both exploited and scapegoated in this. Not only that, the onus gets put on them to change. Condemning the sleezy-looking 13 yo girl is like convicting the pitiful soul who robs the corner store, while at the higher levels, gross robbery goes unchecked.

QUOTE: “ a woman who dress's to "fit in" and get mans attention.”

So true! The need to be approved by males and feel acceptable is a powerful force, and if God is not the spiritual husband/father –then, it is extremely difficult to resist substitutes, especially when they are invasive cultural forces. Let’s remember that the need to belong and feel significant is a God-given need. It is because humans are born separate from God, that they seek to meet these needs in wrong ways.

But, even in the church, how can a woman’s true Husband/Father be God himself, when they are trained to believe that their “head” is a human man. In this case a worldly practice is simply spiritualized by the church. Women become reliant on men, and aim to please them. Here we can learn from Mary who sat at Jesus’ feet. Mary did what was grossly unacceptable in her culture, and certainly to her spiritual leaders. Only men could sit at the feet of a visiting philosopher/teacher.

In many cultures, like the biblical world, the males are clearly dominant, and we are called to live in the social order. However, in the church women must be empowered to seek God as their head, and to build their relationship with him. Then they will instinctively seek to please him. And that will also involve consideration for others – practically speaking.

Meanwhile, let us all learn to see other for more than outward appearances, but as a person who, beneath all the facades have a deep hunger for God.

(see Romans 14)


Diane

D
dietolive Nov 1, 2011

Thank you for taking the time to post this Brother.

This has been said before:

A true Christian, (one at peace with God, through faith in His dear Son), strives to obey every commandment of his Lord and Master. He strives therefore to excel in being a shining light to the lost and benighted mass of people on every side.

It is no light thing then, dear Brothers, to be a representative of the Creator God to this wicked world. No my friends, it is a GREAT thing; an AWESOME responsibility. Our public walk, the life we live, has ETERNAL consequences...

Sisters: You are precious in God's sight and one of the mightiest weapons in God's arsenal. A chaste, holy, Godly woman stops the mouth of the wicked; she devastates spiritually wicked strongholds, pounding their walls to dust...

Knowing the great good that is in your power to fight for the Kingdom of God, you have a responsibility to act. If you are doing everything in your power,(everything that can reasonably be done), to stop wicked men from committing spiritual adultery with you, you are doing well. But if the Spirit convicts otherwise, prayerfully search the Scriptures to find out what you must now do.

In the end, those of us who know God, who have Christ dwelling within, are FREE. We are free from "Pharaseeism" on one side, and we are free from "Reactionism" on the other. We are free to love God with all our hearts; we are free to love everyone else, yes, even laying down our lives for them, if need be.

Now let us go forth in this "glorious liberty" and SHOCK the world again. Let us go forth in the "beauty of holiness" and in the brilliance of God's reflected light.

- Excerpted from "Voices from the Early Church: Cyprian, to the Unmarried Sisters" Page 2.

Be well and may God bless you today,
Doug

F
FireinmyBones1 Nov 1, 2011

Did I honestly just read that 'slacks' and 'blue jeans' on women are an 'abomination' to God? That's some pretty strong language which needs to be backed up by more than just Mosaic commands to abstain from androgyny...as that is precisely what Deutoronomy 22:5 is speaking concerning. Were 'slacks' and exclusively male item of dress in the time of Moses? No. When did they become so? Much, much later. The fact of the matter is that when Deutoronomy 22:5 was written, men dressed in a fashion that we, in America, would deem 'feminine'. (How would you feel if I showed up in a dress?)

This is simply evidence that much of conservative evangelicalism is based upon American, colonial revivalism than it is the scriptures. Sure, women wearing 'slacks' is still a relatively young concept in the scope of history. But it is absolutely ridiculous, and an irresponsible usage of scripture I might add, to insinuate that God deems 'pants' as acceptable only for males. There is NO SUCH intimation made in the whole of scripture. This is interpreting scripture through the lens of modernity, not through the lens of the culture in which it was given.

Am I for immodesty? Absolutely not. But to be so bold in your speech, and yet so lacking in proof texts is a great danger. If we used this method of interpretation, we could prove far more devious things to be GOOD than we could prove that pants are bad. Please, excuse my tone, I do not mean to sound overly harsh as I know you are doing your best to help the church. But dear friend, such words do not help the church.

YES, as Paul, we should encourage modesty and decency! But the truth of the matter is that women who go out of their way to appear modest draw much more attention to themselves than those who do not. And if we want to return to the commands of Deutoronomy, what would you say to the Scotsman and his kilt? Or Jesus and his robe for that matter? Pants can be just as immodest on men as they are on women...in fact, probably more so on men than on women. So, let us hold ourselves to the same standards we hold women to.

Peace,

Jeff

F
FireinmyBones1 Nov 1, 2011

Also, it literally baffles me when I see women in more traditional dress with husbands who are only distinguishable from the culture because of their wife's appearance. This is so often the case. The women are condemned for looking similar to the culture, and yet there are no standards whatsoever for the men. Again, I'm for modesty and decency 100%! But modesty and decency is not the same as drawing attention to yourself. If a husband makes his wife dress in handmade, oversized gowns, he should also dress in handmade, oversized polos or tunics. :)

sermonindex Nov 1, 2011

I very much agree with the general call to dress modestly.

However, female trouser wearing an abomination to God??? That's condemned about 99.9% of females I know!

I continue to be perplexed by the attitudes on this forum. Things seem to slide between heartfelt passion for Christ on the one hand, and extremist reactions on the other.

D
dietolive Nov 1, 2011

I would agree with some who have written here, that it does seem excessive in the extreme to say that ladies wearing trousers, or pants is an abomination to God.

Certainly at least, I would not go to the Old Testament Law to show that it is God’s will for our Christian Sisters to wear dresses or skirts, when the inspired apostle specifically commanded this very thing in the New Testament himself:

“I will therefore... that women adorn themselves in modest apparel (“katastole”] with shamefacedness and sobriety;; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works." I Timothy 2:8-10

Katastole is a conjuction in the Greek. It is made up of the word “Kata” (“down”, “long”) and “Stole” (“a flowing robe”).

Paul himself tells the sisters to literally wear “long robes.” Now, people may still choose to argue today over what “katastole” means, but no one can argue what the two words mean that comprise it. Kata Stole = Long Robes.

Finally, accepting the actual words of the apostles to us, the Church, is not “extremist”, it is “apostolic.” Let us not be afraid to let the apostles speak for themselves. The early Church did just fine taking them at their word; we can too. The early Church was not ashamed to stand out from the world for their God, and neither are we.

God help us.

Sincerely,
Doug

J
JB1968 Nov 1, 2011

Amen, Bro. Greg! Thank you for this post. The church has fallen asleep on this subject. It is interesting to note that many of our forefathers of the faith believed this way. Many of their republished written sermons have been edited to remove many of the references to the starndards of dress. Once again, thank you.

sermonindex Nov 1, 2011


Great questions!!
I suspect many reasons. Firstly, everyone can see what women wear, but no one can see the heart – like of the men who prefer sexy looking women, and exploit women’s need to please them.

Yes, no one can see the heart. However, when this subject is constantly posted, it becomes apparent that there is some kind of "control" issue going on. Because it is just abnormal to keep beating people over the head about such things.

Attire is something you can pinpoint, address, and control. Not so for the hidden forces at work – such as values, emotional hunger, various forms of desire, greed, etc. What about the sexualization of culture driven by powerful white male dominated industries (ex the music video, fashion industry).

Some attire you can pinpoint. Some men would not be happy unless the woman had what could be almost considered a Christian "burkaa".

And so, females become both exploited and scapegoated in this. Not only that, the onus gets put on them to change. Condemning the sleezy-looking 13 yo girl is like convicting the pitiful soul who robs the corner store, while at the higher levels, gross robbery goes unchecked.

Wow!! That is so right. The men who will lust at anything, then blame the women and want them to cover themselves abnormally. The blame gets shifted to the women for what the men refuse to bring to the cross. Women are easier to control with doctrine and dogma than the man's lusts with the Cross.

QUOTE: “ a woman who dress's to "fit in" and get mans attention.”

But, even in the church, how can a woman’s true Husband/Father be God himself, when they are trained to believe that their “head” is a man? In this case a worldly practice is simply spiritualized by the church. Women become reliant on men, and aim to please them. Here we can learn from Mary who sat at Jesus’ feet. Mary did what was grossly unacceptable in her culture, and certainly to her spiritual leaders. Only men could sit at the feet of a visiting philosopher/teacher.

True. All this constant preaching about dress and other outward things is just the fruit of men using Christianity to keep women "in their place". It is a sad reaction to feminism. We go to the other extreme of using the scriptures to control and manipulate one another all under the guise of spirituality. I think much of it has to do with fear of the world capturing our loved ones.

In many cultures, like the biblical world, the males are clearly dominant, and we are called to live in the social order. However, in the church women must be empowered to seek God as their head, and to build their relationship with him. Then they will instinctively seek to please him. And that will also involve consideration for others – practically speaking.

Of course, and for men, too. It is the life of Christ in you that sets all things aright. I had a friend who was invited to a church and brought his wife and kids. The Christian women in the church actually approached the man's wife and scolded her about her clothes. It was a sinful travesty. The brother was a born-again Christian and the wife was an unbeliever. When are we going to show the love of Christ to people and let them establish a relationship with the Holy Spirit so the Holy Spirit can establish them in Christ. His wife was so offended and hurt and this brother has not tried to find likeminded fellowship, since. Instead of helping people along and lifting them up, we want to conform them to our (religious)image instead of seeing them conformed to Christ.

We have no patience, no love, no forbearance. We talk a lot, but don't walk in love. We want people to fall in, line up and straighten up, right away. It seems that we don't care whose heart we crush. These Indian sisters who cover their ankles (because it is immodest to show them) but show their belly, did not like it that her neckline was lower than what THEY could handle.

Meanwhile, let us all learn to see other for more than outward appearances, but as a person who, beneath all the facades have a deep hunger for God.

Amen, Diane, Amen.

I fear if this site keeps preaching on the outward and keeps posting more and more threads about dress and clothing that it is going to either dry up or just attract all the same kind of people.

I don't know what kind of churches poeple are going to but in my experience, most sisters know better than men what Christian propriety is all about. Most wives who have a husband that loves and cares for them, don't feel a need to "impress" anyone else.

Very heartbreaking how this site is drying up.

R
roadsign Nov 2, 2011

QUOTE: It seems that we don't care whose heart we crush.

Clearly attire is a sensitive issue. I know from a personal situation in my early twenties how deeply condemnation related to dress can get branded into the conscience- especially when you thought you were diligent and modest. That can tempt you to become obsessed with how you look, and you build walls instead of bridges.

What is going on at a deeper level of the conscience makes all the difference: Is the aim to win praise and avoid condemnation (from man or God), or is the aim to facilitate relational peace and harmony. In both cases the attire may be the same, but the motive is vastly different. The one motive is self-absorbed, the other motive is other-centered.

So how does one handle those "obviously" less-than-sanctified? Well - if we are unable to see any person on a deeper level than their dress, we may be best to pray for them first for a while, and seek God to give us a heart for them. If we haven't won their trust - we are not the ones to admonish them.

Diane

sermonindex Nov 2, 2011

it's me, your brother neil, hi and much love to you in Christ.

i clicked on this entry with the greatest of trepidation and unease in my soul...and it was worse than i thought.

Praise God for the sister, who attends to her attire in a matter fitting with the conviction and Leading of God the Holy Ghost. If a sister wants to cover her head, wear long denim skirts, Praise God, i love them with all the Love of Jesus in me, but to actually stand behind a statement that a woman wearing JEANS is an "abomination" before God?!

has leadership absolutely gone off the rails? the world is on fire! and they concern themselves with this. Would to God any woman, or man be able to afford ANY clothing. That said, i do a big kick out of watching pastors standing in front of a pulpit wearing suit and tie...oh, thats very 1st century.

but to cast a woman in scorn for jeans?...is it okay if she wears Red Wing boots? because way out here, she might need them, should she have to go to market in a blizzard, run off the road, and have to hike up to the road to seek assistance....or what about when i need help, manning the wood splitter....or is it "okay" for a woman to help with the wood splitting? ...or is that a "man's" work?...or what about helping take down a tree?....guess what, you go into the woods, you better be wearing jeans and boats, and have the bottom of your jeans duct taped, so as deer ticks dont get you. Lyme disaese is a crushing hell...or what about if she's got to use the tractor to till, while i use the splitter? i'm giving hypotheticals.

this is absolute madness and so far away from the Ministry of Christ and Him Crucified, my very breath is taken away and its coming from the top. Thats you Greg. Please tell me, what is going on?
Trust me, i am NOT unaware of how the "fashion industry" has sexualized women, objectived them as mere objects of lust, and i feel uncomfortable, but on FB wall, i have a picture of my son and his mother, who climbed 12,000 feet up a mountain in the Rockies, and she's in full climbing gear...not a G-string bikini, but full climbing gear and that means pants. Now this beloved woman to my heart is wearing pants, climbing pants and boots, and she knows and loves Jesus, and via this tract, you DARE insinuate she's an "abombination to God"? a 43 year old woman, joining her 15 year old son, engaging in the healthy activity of climbing a mountain, an abomination to God?

THE LORD REBUKE YOU!

when i saw those pictures, my heart leapt, when i heard her testimony of how she felt in Christ, my heart leaped further, mother and son, taking on a mountain, as a form of worship, not just sitting in some bldg, being passive listening to man preach, but getting out there, climbing the mountain, in God's creation, relishing it and worshipping Him thru this brave and bold act.

Why dear brother does it seem to me, that you are a strange path? Who has turned you, away from the Freedom we have in and with Jesus? You are breaking my heart, it feels to me, you are heaping burdens upon labored saints...why?...why? Didnt we all resolve to know nothing, but Christ and Him Crucified

please answer these questions i ask you in Love, the Love of Jesus

can you answer this?...what if you were in the house of the pharisee, where Jesus was reclining and that woman, a woman doubtless of ill repute, God only knows what attire she was in, coming in, weeping, and then kissing the feet of Jesus, bathing them with her tears, washing them with her hair co mingling with her tears, annopinting them will precious oils and perfumes, would YOU have felt the same revulsion that the gathered pharisee's did?

would you?......search your heart, you dont have to answer me, i'm just a tent of flesh, i'm nothing, search your heart, because i'll tell you this, and i beg God for this not to happen, but keep this line up and you will drive this ministry God entrusted you with, right straight into the shoals of ruin....do you want that?
grieved and heartbroken, neil...the same neil that has been on my knees many times praying for you and this ministry for 9 years, with tears and joy...please, as the Lord leads, dont do this, Remember the Blood shed.

G
ginnyrose Nov 2, 2011

QUOTE:
"ginny that is where the godly jealousy is missing in many husbands,,,,,,,,,how could they want to show off their wives like that ,,,,,theres a root of pride involved in that"

I suspect you are spot on.

As I was thinking about this issue, I find it unsettling that you have here on SI males who complain about their struggle with lust but will take a lukewarm attitude towards modesty.

Another point to consider: how would the men feel if males would walk around in dresses? I saw a Ray Comfort video where they interviewed a cross-dresser. Never saw one before! and I was totally repulsed. Now I wonder, if females would have dressed like they do today, done it 100 years ago, what would people's reaction be?

That is what this issue is, cross-dressing....people just got used to women doing it - got used to the dark, like Vance Havner says. So, then it is no wonder there is a homosexuality issue: there has been a blurring of the sexes, not only in dress, but in careers, work...the only thing they have not succeeded is getting a male to bear children or a female to sire children.

Logic/opinion and not enough scripture? Another poster dealt with that angle, go to that post...

Now, what would Jesus say? If I am his bride, I want to look like one, dressed up and ready to go! He loves that, I know!


sermonindex Nov 2, 2011

So how does one handle those "obviously" less-than-sanctified? Well - if we are unable to see any person on a deeper level than their dress, we may be best to pray for them first for a while, and seek God to give us a heart for them. If we haven't won their trust - we are not the ones to admonish them.

How true! You cannot hope to speak into someone's life unless you have relationship with them and even then, you should be led by the Spirit of God and His mercy and love. Have we all forgotten what miry clay we were dredged up out of?

sermonindex Nov 2, 2011

This is completely ridiculous...

G
ginnyrose Nov 2, 2011

Neil,

It has been a delight to read your posts and see how much you love the LORD. Walking with the LORD is a growing process. As I look back on my youth, early adulthood I am appalled at my mindset, the things I have done. And I would guess this is normal. There were things I have argued for and defended quite strongly that I wish I could forget. But now I am 64 YO and have grown up a lot since then...and I suspect I am normal and that this will be your story as well, someday. Neil, you just keep on praying, you may be surprised where the LORD will lead you.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

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