Truth about Gifts of Holy Spirit

S

Sree Nov 3, 2011

Mathew 15 -
Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

As I was reading these verses today, God directed me to share these words with you. There has been so much thoughts and fights over gifts of the holy spirit. And people saying gifts are important to know that you are filled with Holy Spirit there by forcing others who have not received gifts to doubt their infilling of Holy spirit. Also there are frequent posters here who claim to speak in tongues when they pray for others and are proud about it.

But listen to what Jesus has said here. The mark of a Godly man is not in the gifts he received, but it is in the fruit of the spirit that you see in him. If you see even one thorn in them like lack of love or peace or kindness in words etc then they do not have the fruits and they are not men of God.
In verse 22 Jesus says that these people who do not enter the kingdom say that they did prophesy in Jesus name, drove demons and performed many miracles. Which means they had the gifts to prophesy , gifts to drive demons and then gifts of doing miracles in Jesus name. Still they were cast out of Kingdom of God, why? Because they did not have the fruits of spirit and were evil doers.
So before fighting on the gifts that you now posses first examine your own life to see whether you have the fruits in you. If there is no fruit then the gifts are useless and will not get you into kingdom of God.
So gifts are just a sign that God gives to some to believe that they received Holy spirit. Not everyone is given a gift to believe, because they already has faith to believe that God has filled them with Holy Spirit based on the change in their life style.
To summarize- I want people not to be proud of their gifts because it means nothing to God when it comes to letting you into kingdom. And do not lose heart if you do not have gifts but you see a change in your life. All that is important is a new creation (Galatians 6).

J

jimp Nov 3, 2011

hi, please do not go where you just went...the gifts are of the Spirit as the fruit also. this which you wrote refers to people who never got saved(never knew you) and are mockers of gifts. the fruit comes from resting in the finished work of Jesus and walking in the spirit. the gifts are for today s are the fruit.

B

beekpr Nov 3, 2011

Hello,

I am severely disturbed by what I see in the contemporary "evangelical" world. I have spent a lifetime reading the Scripture, but have given only a passing glance at "theology". At the moment I am reading the first epistle of St.John and am finding what I see in all the rest of the Word-that the marks of a true child of God are an aversion to sin and faith in the Son of God. The idea that one can be "saved" and be deliberately walking in ways of sin is one that I find in a particularly popular school of theological thought, but see absolutely no support for it in either the epistles or in the words of Jesus.
Regarding the gifts of the Spirit-the Scriptures tell us that they are for the building up of the Church. What I am seeing too much of today is "gifts" that seem to be an end in themselves rather than for the glory of God and the benefit of His people. If we truly belong to God, I believe that our first ambition will be to delight Him by loving obedience (the "sign" which St. John speaks of in his epistle). When our hearts are thus in tune with Him, then alone are we ready to receive His gifts for His use. God has shown me on several occasions that what people thought were gifts of the Spirit were actual counterfeits of the same. We place ourselves wide open to spiritual deception when we knowingly allow sin in our lives. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness!"

sermonindex Nov 3, 2011

Actually... I think that was a great word for everyone. Be more concerned about manifesting the fruits of the Spirit, and not so hung up on gifts.

This is Biblical. You can display every gift listed in the Bible, but if you do not have love for your brother you have nothing.

Like I've said before, some folks want to tell us all about their experiences and their giftings of tongues and prophecy. Just once I'd love to see someone come here and tell us about their experiences with the gift of hospitality. (it's a much GREATER gift than tongues or prophecy, according to Paul)

Krispy

sermonindex Nov 3, 2011

"Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you workers of iniquity".

THEY said that they prophesied in His name, THEY said that they cast out demons, THEY said they performed wonders.

They did nothing from His Holy Spirit, He did not give them any gifts to perform anything, they did it through their own deceiving spirit. They are deceivers, workers of iniquity, beguiling others and beguiling themselves. They believed they were prophesying in His name but they were deceived because they have no love for the truth.

Jesus said, "Luke 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you."

That should have been true for those children of iniquity as well IF they were truly casting out devils.

As Jimp said, you can't have the fruit without the gifts or vice versa, they all proceed from the same source.

1 Corinthians 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

What is the excellent way?

We skim over verses and think that Paul dropped off the gifts of the Spirit after he said, COVET EARNESTLY, and then went on to Charity. But he wasn't saying that we should expel the gifts for the sake of Charity, nay, he was lifting them up further by saying that if you want to covet earnestly the best gifts follow after Charity (or sacrificial love).

1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

As for becoming proud of a gift. Some Christians may get proud over a gift, but that is few and far between. Most people that have a gift of the Spirit they generally shy away because they don't want the limelight of people looking at them as if they are some great Oracle. And if they do become proud, God who is their Father will knock that pride out them.

1 Corinthians 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

When you read this first chapter we see that we are no different than those early birds, they too were squabbling about what each one believed and Paul was pleading with them to stop causing divisions amongst themselves and to live in peace with one another speaking the same things.

Yet when we see what was going on then is going on today, Paul goes unto say,

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are YOU(we) in Christ Jesus,.....

What family doesn't have it's ups and downs?

S

Sree Nov 3, 2011

hi, please do not go where you just went...the gifts are of the Spirit as the fruit also. this which you wrote refers to people who never got saved(never knew you) and are mockers of gifts. the fruit comes from resting in the finished work of Jesus and walking in the spirit. the gifts are for today s are the fruit.

Brother please answer these questions. I am writing this with love and respect for your soul.
1. 'never knew you' - the knowing referred here is an indepth and intimate knowing of a person. It is not a physical knowing. If it is physical knowing then God knows everyone of his creation, how can he lie?
The knowing here is same as the one in Genesis 4 -1:-
Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man from the LORD.” 2
So though they were saved and gifted with gifts of spirit they never worked on their salvation to know Jesus fully.
2. The gifts of Holy Spirit are not given to unbelievers. if they are unbelievers as proclaimed by you then how were they able to drive demons? Jesus himself said demons cannot be driven by the power of demons. Where then they got their power from? May be they were lying but if they did then why did Jesus mention about a lie?
3. I agree with you that fruits come by perseverance and working with Spirit continously but gifts are givento SOME as a token immediately when they is baptized in Holy spirit. All I want to convey here is the presence of Gift will not take you into the kingdom of God. Only the presence of Fruit. So let us continue walking with Holy spirit to bear fruits instead of fighting and boasting over the gifts.
4. If you still want to believe that a person with just gifts can enter the kingdom of God then please proceed. But I don't want your blood in my hands so I told you the truth here. Also please do not take others blood in your hand by spreading such faulty beliefs.

sermonindex Nov 3, 2011

"So though they were saved and gifted with gifts of spirit they never worked on their salvation to know Jesus fully."

Your adding to the script that they were saved. There is no indication anywhere that they were.

Here is an example of non Christians trying to cast out devils by the name of Jesus.

Acts 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

Acts 19:14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.

Acts 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

But who are you?

The devils didn't see any Holy Spirit in them that they should be cast out, no authority, I don't have to vamoose.

J

jimp Nov 3, 2011

my dear sree, i will state that the two most important things in my life is knowing Jesus in an intimate way and being known of Him who died for me and knew me before the earth was formed. i am amazed at how wonderful the post of are you casting nets or casting stones is and i recommend it as far as our attitudes in ministry need work.

A

AbideinHim Nov 3, 2011

"What is the excellent way?

We skim over verses and think that Paul dropped off the gifts of the Spirit after he said, COVET EARNESTLY, and then went on to Charity. But he wasn't saying that we should expel the gifts for the sake of Charity, nay, he was lifting them up further by saying that if you want to covet earnestly the best gifts follow after Charity (or sacrificial love).

1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy."

Praise God for bringing in the proper balance to this discussion on the gifts and the fruit, for God is concerned about both. Christ lives in us and we are in Him, and as we abide in Him the result will be "much fruit". The baptism of the Holy Spirit has been poured out to enable believers to do the work of the ministry. Every believer has been given a gift or gifts for ministry, and all of these gifts are to be operated in the love of God to the building up of the Body of Christ.

Mike

sermonindex Nov 3, 2011

Your adding to the script that they were saved. There is no indication anywhere that they were.

Good point... if you're saved you are saved. Period. And if you are saved you will manifest both the gifts of the Spirit AND the fruits of the Spirit. If you do not, then you are not saved. Period. We do not do these things on our own, God enables us to do these things... this is called Grace.

Not everyone gets the same gift, or all the gifts. Clearly the Bible teaches not all will teach or prophecy or speak in tongues (1 Corinthians 12:30 in context)... but all will demonstrate the fruits of the Spirit if they are saved.

Krispy

S

Sree Nov 3, 2011

"So though they were saved and gifted with gifts of spirit they never worked on their salvation to know Jesus fully."

May be saved is not the right word as many believe getting saved mean entering heaven. Though i believe saved is saving from past Sins by the blood of Jesus and only sanctification by walking with holy spirit can only save one from power of Sin. Please do not argue on the definition of saved alone as of now.
what I wanted to convey here that these people were believers and that is why they called Jesus as lord.
1 Corinthians 12 - 3 :- No one can say Jesus is lord expect by the Holy Spirit.
How did these people then call Jesus Lord?
Again you may say these people were mocking Jesus by calling him Lord.

Acts 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
Acts 19:14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
Acts 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

I just don't understand what you are trying to prove here. I originally wanted to share with you this scripture from Acts to prove that one cannot drive demon except though the gift of driving demon that they received from Holy Spirit. That is why the 7 sons of Sceva where kicked out by Demon when they tried to drive them. These evil doer were given the gift and that is why they say to God they drove demons, not just they tried to (like Sons of Sceva) but the infact did with success. But when they backslide God did not take the gifts from them like how we do not take the marriage gifts that we give others when they divorce one another.
So the point I am trying to make is, a person cannot be called a man of God just by the presence of Gifts. Do you find the fruits of Spirit in him? If not he is not a man of God.
If you want me to explain you the scriptures I can do it all day but I don't have time to argue any more. What I shared is directly a revelation from holy spirit. Let those who have ears hear.

sermonindex Nov 3, 2011

If they were turned away by Jesus to everlasting damnation then they were never saved to begin with. It would be an impossibility. To say they never "worked on their salvation" and were therefore turned away is to say we earn our salvation for ourselves... and Jesus sacrifice was a waste and meant nothing.

Be careful because some of what is being said here is really close to being unorthodox.

Some of what is being said here is what Ellen G White of the Seventh Day Adventist Church taught.

Krispy

J

jimp Nov 3, 2011

hi, my sheep know my voice... these are not my sheep.

S

Sree Nov 3, 2011

If they were turned away by Jesus to everlasting damnation then they were never saved to begin with. It would be an impossibility. To say they never "worked on their salvation" and were therefore turned away is to say we earn our salvation for ourselves... and Jesus sacrifice was a waste and meant nothing.
Be careful because some of what is being said here is really close to being unorthodox.
Some of what is being said here is what Ellen G White of the Seventh Day Adventist Church taught.
Krispy

Dear Krispy,

That is why I clearly said that I do not want to argue on the definition of Saved. Because it itself a big thing to explain and not everyone understands it.
But to answer your question. why then did Paul say that work of your salvation with fear and trembling.
By work I don't mean you need to do everything. But you need to make sure you listen to Holy Spirit. A small human element is always involved in Salvation. This is proved in all the miracles that Jesus did. Even in raising Lazerus he asked the people to move the rock. If they did not move the rock Jesus won't have raised Lazerus. So raising the dead which is a tough task will be done by God but the easy one like moving the stone will be done by us.
Instead of challenging me in the definition of saved why dont you challenge me in other things that I quoted? I know people here have different definitions of saved and I don't believe it is wrong.
God cannot be contained in one definition. When I speak to someone I speak of the human element involved in salvation but when I speak to God I say it is by his work I am saved. I don't want any soul to be lost because it was not told of that small human element.
if you do not agree with what I said then please hear brother Keith Daniel's sermon on the fear of God in recently concluded conference.

S

Sree Nov 3, 2011

hi, my sheep know my voice... these are not my sheep.

Dear brother, with all respect for your soul, why dont you try to answer the questions I posted to you instead of just taking and posting scriptures out of context. If you want me to explain these scriptures then I can but I cannot argue anymore.
I remember you talked about a brother who posted something on Home church saying he ran away when people opposed his post. Why do you shy away now without answering me?
You who judge others are you not doing the same thing here? It requires a great heart to correct oneself when proved wrong not everyone has it. I am not here to prove you wrong but i am just concerned about wrong teachings spreading among Christians due to some immature posts.

sermonindex Nov 3, 2011

That is why I clearly said that I do not want to argue on the definition of Saved. Because it itself a big thing to explain and not everyone understands it.

Actually it's quite simple: Repent and put your faith in the Saviour and you will be saved.

God then changes your heart and your desires, and He enables you to live out your salvation. (Paul did NOT say "work off your salvation", as you misquoted him as saying. He said work out your salvation... in other words, live it out... not to earn it, but because you have been bought with a price. You are a slave.)

Thats what all that means. If you are not enabled, and have no desire to live as He commands... you are NOT saved.

No more difficult than that. If you need to write post after post trying to explain what it means... then I have to wonder (without judging) if you understand it yourself.

What is actually being stated here by some is exactly what the heretic Ellen G White taught, and is still what the SDA and the JW's and the Mormons all teach. Jesus made a down payment for our salvation, and now we must earn it from there.

I'll call it what it is. False... heretical and it's a lie from hell.

When Jesus reaches down and saves a man or woman He saves them to the uttermost!! His Grace is sufficient, AMEN.

The evidence of having been saved is a changed heart and a desire to obey His commands and a hatred of sin... and a desire to no longer live according to the flesh.

This is why Jesus told them "depart from Me...".

Krispy

J

jimp Nov 3, 2011

hi sree, after being in the ministry for 48 years and ministering with folks like len ravenhill and danny ost and a e eccols etc. after bible col. and some seminary and seeing thousands added to the kingdom i would love to sit and talk with you for hours pouring over the scriptures. i live in baton rouge at the old dorms of jsm.and do this all the time with the students here. it has become the highlight of my ministry and brings great joy to me.love you.jimp

D

dietolive Nov 3, 2011

Dear Krispy,

You wrote:
"What is actually being stated here by some is exactly what the heretic Ellen G White taught, and is still what the SDA and the JW's and the Mormons all teach. Jesus made a down payment for our salvation, and now we must earn it from there.

I'll call it what it is. False... heretical and it's a lie from hell."

Now my dear Brother, those of us who hold to the "conditional security" understanding; comparing Scripture with Scripture and taking them all at face-value, (our security is in-Christ, but not outside of Him), are used to being calling heretics by you.

Our sweet brothers who hold to an opposing system of theology may continue to rail against us, and "poison the well" by mixing us in with supposed false teachers, (as they have been doing for the past 500 years or so), but we will still love them anyway. :O)

God bless you Brother, as well as all others who yet disagree.

Sincerely,
Doug

sermonindex Nov 3, 2011

Playing the victim card doesnt change that the truth of scripture is just that... truth.

Salvation can not be conditional upon anything that we do. If so then salvation is not of Grace, and man gets glory. Thats a fact.

Krispy

S

Sree Nov 3, 2011

Great testimony. I truely appreciate you and always have respect for every soul created by God.
I am just an unworthy slave who just do what God ordered me to do. I don't have any ministry other than a body of Christ that God has gifted me.
Brother can you please answer all the questions that I have posted in this thread as a reply to your post? Please do not answer my scripture with another and there by extending the argument.