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My Defense of the Philly 11 to the Church

sermonindex Jan 3, 2005

My Defense of the Philly 11 to the ChurchReally quickly I wanted to share a few thoughts with everyone on these forums which I've been thinking about. I was going to post a week ago but I didn't. I'll just share my few thoughts and leave it at that. You guys, feel free to post any comments or rebuttles since it is the truth that we are all after. quote: "Is it wise or unwise to preach the Gospel at an event like this one?" I always believed that the light shines the brightest where it is the darkest. If it is a dark place, then that is exactly where the light belongs. What should we do? Take our lights and put them under our beds? (Matthew 5:15) Lets put the light where it belongs, shining in the darkness. Lets be the city set on the hill which can not and will not be hidden. (Matt 5:14). What Jesus has told us in the dark, lets speak in the light. What He has told us in the ear, lets preach from the housetops. (Matt 10:27) If the battle is not fought on the frontlines, where is it fought? As far as preaching against homosexuality, so long as it is a sin I believe it is ok to preach against it. I believe in preaching against any sin and all sin. Although telling a homosexual in a America that homosexuality is a sin probably won't come as a huge revelation to him, it is still a truth that the bible proclaims (1 Cor 6:9). If the bible proclaims it we should also. Now, you may not have to even bring it up when witnessing to a homosexual. In America, they probably already know and have heard it. You can effectively witness to a homosexual without even bringing it up. However, it won't be long until homosexuals haven't heard that it is a sin. The world won't tell them, and often the church won't either. Therefore, if the bible preaches against it, I wouldn't oppose Christians who do the same. Jer 6:10 - "To whom shall I speak and give warning, That they may hear? Indeed their ear is uncircumcised, And they cannot give heed. Behold, the word of the Lord is a reproach to them; They have no delight in it." - As we can see in situations like these.Ezekiel 1:7 "You shall speak My words to them, whether they hear or whether they refuse, for they are rebellious." - It's all about being faithful with the gospel. Our focus must not be to be successful with the gospel. Jesus will not say on that Day "well done, my good and successful servant." If we are faithful in declaring the truth, then we are being sucessful even if nobody gets saved. Remember, the prophet Jeremiahs ministry never saved anybody at all, dispite all the preaching, yet he was still faithful. Jeremiah would be a failure according to the standards of today, but he is highly exalted in Heaven.2 Timothy 4:2 - "Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season." So whether we have a harvest or not, we must preach the word.Ezekiel 3:11- "And go, get to the capitves, to the children of your people, and speak to them and tell them, 'Thus says the Lord God,' whether they hear, or whether they refuse." - I can see how this can apply to this situation.Ezekiel 3:18 "When I say to the wicked, 'You shall surely die,' and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand." - Can this be applied to homosexuals as well? I also feel it is important not to believe that because they are homosexuals, they are unqualified from even the possibility of getting saved, and therefore we shouldn't reach out to them. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." And so we see that Paul preached to homosexuals the message of repentance and hope and saw obvious results.I've had some rather, I would dare to say, pleasant witnessing encounters with homosexuals. One night I talked to three homosexuals all together. I did not beat around the bush, I went straight for the prevelent and primary sin: homosexuality. I didn't bother trying to cut down the branches, I went for the root of the tree. Very lovingly and very seriously I told them that if they do not repent from homosexuality they will perish and I don't want them to die. I told them they have to turn. We were all very polite and friendly to each other and I feel I really got through to one of them. Very often MANY homosexuals believe that they can live that lifestyle and still be a Christian. So long as they don't lie or steal and are friendly to others they beleive they can be Christians. Therefore, I told them that they need to repent from homosexuality. I wouldn't want to give anyone the impression that they can be both a Christian and a homosexual. I wouldn't want to be responsible for that, as I'm sure no serious Christian would. Col. 1:28 is my life scripture. "Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus." Every man must be warned whether white or black, young or old, big or small, straight or gay, all men everywhere are commanded to repent. (Acts 17:30-31) and not just some men in some places. Therefore Paul warned all men. As far as banners go, I would never oppose something that furthers the truth. If it is declaring the truth, then I am all for it. I know the world has no problem getting massive billboards to promote their adult (short for adultery) stores. We've all seen them displayed unashamedly. I know I am not the only one. They are effective in declaring their message, no matter how offensive it is to me as a Christian. I know the Salvation Army, when William Booth was the General, always used banners in their open-air meetings. They would parade through the streets with HUGE banners and God blessed them because they saw revival. Remarkable revival. I would never speak against something that God has used greatly. What if God wanted to use banners again to help bring about a revival? I think that would be awesome and would love to see a move of God today just as William Booth did in his day.As far as Bullhorns, it simply just isn't good quality. I prefer to use my Fender P-10, however the cops took that away from me recently. Something like a Fender or Anchor Audio is simply better quality then a bull horn. Singing hymns publicly is great. In the days of the Wesley revivals, Charles Wesley (who wrote most of the methodist hymnal) would stand in the open-air and sing a hymn which would get peoples attention. After Charles would get their ears with a hymn, John Wesley would get their hearts with his preaching. But I am sure Charles had a great voice. Nobody has a great voice using a bull horn. I recommend better equipment or no equipment at all. I myself have stood next to my large easle scripture display that reads "God is a just judge and God is angry with the wicked every day (Ps7:11)" and have passed out free gospels. Since it is scripture, I'll gladly do it. I have found it to be quite helpful in getting peoples attention, getting the message across to the masses, and in starting powerful conversations. If it is from the bible, I'll display it on my easle and will not apologize to the world on behalf of God for anything He has said. Our society has no problem with signs and banners. We have stop signs and store signs and all sorts of signs. People have a problem with what some of our signs say. The world has no problem with a sign that says "God loves you" or "God is love" but if a Christian holds up the scripture that says "God is angry with the wicked every day" then the world has a problem and often the church sides with them. It's not the method they are opposed to, it is the message. Where does submitting to authority come into play? I am very glad that I do not have to answer this question at all. The early church did it for me. It's found in Acts 4:18-20 "And they called them and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John answered and said to them, "Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard."Anyways, those are just the few points I wanted to quickly comment on. I am by no means looking for an arguement or to cause division or contraversy. Take it or leave it. These are just the things that have come to my mind and heart. We all have the same goal, to seek and save the lost. I OPENLY ADMIT I MAY BE WRONG ON ANY ONE OF THOSE POINTS. I am open to reason, scripture, and any feed back and also am committing myself more to prayer and fasting. I simply recommend taking what you find to be true and leave what you find to be false. It is great to see that we all seem to agree on more things then we disagree. And that we all agree on the "majors" although our opinions differ when it comes to the "minors". We all agree that we must evangelize. We all agree that we must use the Law to bring the knowledge of sin before the knowledge of grace makes sense. We all agree that we must preach on sin, hell, judgment, repentance, and the cross. We all agree that we must find the most effective and powerful way to reach our generation. We all believe and love Jesus :) . Etc etc

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Am_Lovin_HIM Jan 3, 2005

I was dropping in to do some reading today and one of the threads, which caught my eye, was this one. As I dig more and more into the scriptures, I find a boldness, which comes from the Word of God. I only add another note, otherwise, very well stated brother.Quote: I always believed that the light shines the brightest where it is the darkest. If it is a dark place, then that is exactly where the light belongs. What should we do? Take our lights and put them under our beds? (Matthew 5:15) Lets put the light where it belongs, shining in the darkness. Lets be the city set on the hill which can not and will not be hidden. (Matt 5:14). What Jesus has told us in the dark, lets speak in the light. What He has told us in the ear, lets preach from the housetops. (Matt 10:27) If the battle is not fought on the frontlines, where is it fought? It really doesn’t matter whether we, “in the flesh” agree on this point or not (Matthew 5:14-15) what matters is God said it, therefore we are to DO IT! Verse 16 states: Let your light so shine before me, that they may see your good works, and GLORIFY YOUR FATHER (caps mine for emphasis) which is in heaven. In the Spirit there is no division, there is UNITY!Let me ask? Are most of the Christians in our churches living their lives in such a way as to GLORIFY THE FATHER? Are they/we being the living epistles expressing the love of Christ? Do people who come in contact with most Christians really want what they have? How many Christians are still trusting in the worldly system of health care (instead of faith and prayer), daily pouring down medications prescribed by their doctor (instead of going to the Great Physician and searching their souls), how many still live on Prozac, Paxil for depression? DEPRESSION! And believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, what happened to acting upon the Word?! Somehow there seems to be a contradiction here. Are we not made whole by HIS STRIPES? Did he not come to bring Health and Healing to our WHOLE body? Ponder that thought. I have many times, while being very grateful He has caused me to look within and see my failures and to repent.Not to draw attention away from the seriousness of this topic, but to bring in a small statement of testimony. You see I WAS ONE OF THOSE PAXIL christians (little “c” on purpose) before I got into the Word of the Living God and was set gloriously FREEEEEEEE… He said He came to set the captives free. We all fall short because there is no good thing which dwelleth in our flesh. When then Spirit is in control then we have the mind of Christ and the Holy Spirit brings all thing to our remembrance and it doesn’t matter what men think then…because the Word overflows out of our being and our Spirits come alive!Every single one of the apostles lived what they believed and preached it in the streets. 1 John 3:16 states: Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. Every single one of the apostles laid down their lives for the gospels’ sakes, including Judas! Yes, I know that will bring a bristle to some but did not our Lord know there was a traitor in His midst? \t\tLuke 22:21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. Do you not reason that maybe He was again giving us a parable here? Showing us that the tares will sit among the wheat until sifted? The 10 wise virgins and the 10 foolish virgins are another picture. Those foolish virgins who did not sit at the feet of the Master daily, who do not feed on the Word of God, those who are pretenders who sit in churches on Sundays and Wednesdays but choose to live like the world the rest of the week. Those foolish virgins who when that Day comes will not be ready. Read Joel Chapter 2. But let us be careful here and heed the words in Ezekiel 33:11-20.Ezekiel 33:2-6 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman: If when he see the the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people; Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.5-6 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he taketh warning shall deliver his soul. But if the Watchman see the sword some, and blow not the trumpet, the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand.2 Timothy 4:2 - "Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season." So whether we have a harvest or not, we must preach the word. Some are called to be street evangelists. How prayer is to be offered up on their behalf, for them to be led of the Spirit, for them to have no fear of man but maintain the fear of the Lord. For it is The Lord above who does the drawing and wooing of people’s hearts. Again, to toss out a point to ponder. We are all called to share the gospel. We are to live our lives in such a way as to cause others to want what we have. When they see the Peace which passes all understanding, the joy in the face of trials and tribulations. The REST we have in the LORD alone. Whether it is our family, our friends, our co-workers, our acquaintances or those in general life we come in contact with, we are all to be WITNESSESS by our actions and by our words when led to speak. I speak to myself here also.Quote from Lazarus:Anyways, those are just the few points I wanted to quickly comment on. I am by no means looking for an arguement or to cause division or controversy. Take it or leave it. These are just the things that have come to my mind and heart. We all have the same goal, to seek and save the lost. I OPENLY ADMIT I MAY BE WRONG ON ANY ONE OF THOSE POINTS. I am open to reason, scripture, and any feed back and also am committing myself more to prayer and fasting. I simply recommend taking what you find to be true and leave what you find to be false. We all agree that we must evangelize. We all agree that we must use the Law to bring the knowledge of sin before the knowledge of grace makes sense. We all agree that we must preach on sin, hell, judgment, repentance, and the cross. We all agree that we must find the most effective and powerful way to reach our generation. We all believe and love Jesus :) . Etc etcOne last statement: Sin is Sin, no matter what name be put on it! We as humans tend to categorize the sin and we need to see it from the Father’s eyes. Whether it be fornication outside of the bonds of marriage, adultery inside of marriage or homosexuality. Are not: \tAll of these sins are adultery against the LIVING GOD and against our bodies, which amount to idolatry??It is all sin and we are to REPENT AND TURN FROM OUR WICKED WAYS. It should be our choice brothers and sisters to repent and turn from sin because our Father will be pleased in that act of obedience. Let us choose to be HIS faithful servants and stand on the Word of God. Beloved think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings: that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with esceeding joy. If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified... 1 Peter 4:12-14... is one of many scriptures which prepare us for this persecution which is only going to increase.. we are feeling the birth pangs now..Let us continue to PRAY and be obedient to the high calling in Christ Jesus.Let us PRAY for one another and continue in the spirit of exhortation and encouragement that we not fall from HIS AMAZING GRACE ourselves.I humbly remain,Am_Lovin_HIM

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dohzman Jan 3, 2005

Every one need s to know that these brothers and sisters would certainly sense a conviction and leading of the Holy Spirit to do something like this. The legal process is just and unavoidable process in the working out or makeing full proof of that work. I usually take people and thier callings by faith and try hard not to judge another mans servant, so to speak.However in Cincinatti Oh a preacher was arrested and charged for hate speach crimes because he preached in a church, from a pulpit against homosexuality. The case is still in the process.So guess what?Like it or not we'er in a bigger battle than what most christians realize. If we don't exercise what legal rights we have now, in America it'll be against the law to preach against sin.Best thing is to take these things serious not letting satan accuse the brothers motives to your hearts and just pray for them and support them in any other way you feel a conviction to.I posted this in the other Philly topic.

sermonindex Jan 4, 2005

quote: "a preacher was arrested and charged for hate speach crimes because he preached in a church, from a pulpit against homosexuality. The case is still in the process.So guess what?Like it or not we'er in a bigger battle than what most christians realize."I hear ya.

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mloaks Jan 6, 2005

I truly feel for the Philly 11, but compared to what Christians suffer in China and the Sahel and elsewhere, it looses some bluster.Their trials will witness to more people than shouting at an OutFest ever will.

sermonindex Jan 6, 2005

Yes, severe persecutions have been happening against the Church in China for years and years now. I personally am always inspired when I hear of our brothers and sisters in those countries persevering through trials and tribulations.What makes the situation with the Phily 11 unique is that it shows that persecution of these kinds have actually come to the Church in America. And this is only the beginning. Although street preachers in America have been getting arrested for quite some time now. I myself have two minor court cases in Dallas right now. But the case in Philly is much more major with very serious charges. We will see what type of doors this case opens up for America. Time will tell.

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dohzman Jan 7, 2005

Bro. Jesse , I believe you're right , since court decisions seem to build on each other until finially ,either state supreme or federal supreme courts are force to render a decision in a matter. What makes this a unique case is that Philly is actually going back to an international tready Regan signed way back when, it was an anti proseltising provision that was suposed to be for the protection or religious freedom and parts of it got into the some of the home land security acts under hate crimes. In America we'er in a period where right is wrong and wrong is right.BTW---did you see that the preachers in NY who were arrested had thier cases dropped by the judge , The mayor released a statement saying it was unfortunate but inorder to keep order during the GOP Pres. Nominations some innocent people(i.e. Preachers) were also arrested. As I hear the street preachers have filed a lawsuit against the City of NY. A whole lot happening fast.Hang on and pray, also have been praying about your situation in Dallas.Peace Bro. Daryl

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