Can anyone prove heaven is our eternal home?

The closest scripture I can find to the saints being in heaven (not the same as living/residing in heaven mind you) is in Revelation.

I've always been taught that the elect "go to heaven" immediately after death. I can't find much scripture supporting that either.

Rev. 6:9-11

"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, 'O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?' Then they were each given a white robe and TOLD TO REST a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been."

Notice the slain saints are not walking around in heaven. They are told to REST a little longer.

Rev. 15:2

"And I saw what appeared to be a sea of glass mingled with fire-and also THOSE WHO HAD CONQUERED the beast and its image and the number of its name, standing beside the sea of glass with harps in their hands."

This is AFTER the tribulation (after the 2nd coming).

Rev. 7:9-10

"After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands"

Rev. 7:13-14 describes who they are (when they are)

"Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, 'Who are these, clothed in white robes and from where have they come? I said to him, 'Sir, you know.' And he said to me, 'THESE ARE THE ONES COMING OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION. They have washed their clothes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Post-tribulation saints...

Rev. 7:15 describes their role

"Therefore they are before the throne of God,
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence."

And where will the throne be?

Rev. 20:4-5

"Then I saw thrones and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. THEY CAME TO LIFE AND REIGNED WITH CHRIST FOR A THOUSAND YEARS. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended."

So I guess I have a few questions:

1. Can anyone show where the Bible says we will live in heaven with God (or that anyone else who has lived in an earthly body is currently in heaven).

2. What is the point of the "resurrection of the righteous" if we can just instantly beam to heaven when we die? ("flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" 1 Cor 15:50)

3 What is the point of a judgement if the wicked are automatically thrown into punishment after death (as so many teach)?

Thanks!

John 14:1-4 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Do you believe?

The answer to your question is no it cannot be proved, it takes faith, "by this you know that you have eternal life"

1 John 5:10-15 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Ask for assurance.

In Christ: Phillip

Christinyou - I do believe and I have assurance.

I did not mean to discuss salvation but rather WHERE salvation will be lived out and WHEN we will receive the inheritance.

And by proof, I mean evidence in the scripture (I'm not trying to be Thomas here).

njhoover,

You start to live out/walk out your salvation the moment you are born-again and the Spirit of God is given to you as an "earnest of your inheritance".

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Eph 1:13-14

'Earnest' there is from the Greek word 'Arrabon' - this is Gk. word No 728 in Strong's Concordance system. The meaning is 'pledge' or 'part of the full purchase money – or property – given in advance as security that the full amount will indeed be paid.'

Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. 2Co 1:21-22

From Hebrews 11
vs 1 “Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.”

vs 6 “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.”

Such magnificent realities of God cannot be measured (or proven) by our natural and rational senses. There is no “objective” proof for one in a state of unbelief. We come to know as we accept this by faith – through a life of surrendered trust in our God.

By the time one can "prove" it (ie for a skeptic), it's too late - wouldn't you say?

Diane

How about this one in Hebrews:

Hbr 12:23 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
12:24 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn [who are] registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,

The heavenly Jerusalem, where the Church of The Firstborn (Jesus) are!.

Also Ephesians tells us that we have ALRAEDY been raised up and are seated in Christ in the heaven.

Eph 2:6 and raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,

So When we leave this mortal life we just catch up to where we already belong. Like going home we say! Like an ambassador who serves and lives in a foreign country, when we retire we go back to our heavenly home. Praise God!

The following doesn't sound like we are going to be in heaven but on the earth reigning with our King!....

• To him that OVERCOMETH will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. (Rev 2.7)

• He that OVERCOMETH shall not be hurt of the second death. (Rev 2.11)

• To him that OVERCOMETH will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. (Rev 2.17)

• He that OVERCOMETH and keepeth my works UNTO THE END, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. (Rev 2.26)

• He that OVERCOMETH the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. (Rev 3.5)

• Him that OVERCOMETH will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. (Rev 3.12)

• To him that OVERCOMETH will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. (Rev 3.21).

• He that OVERCOMETH shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. (Rev 21.7)

God bless,
Lisa

PS: A good book that goes into great detail about this is "The Crucible and the Crown." Used at amazon.com it's 3.99 + 3.99 s/h.
http://www.amazon.com/Crucible-Crown-Church-Tribulation/dp/0967354803/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1320769786&sr=8-4

Well, I can prove it isn´t, does that help? :-)

"Rev 21:1-3 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. (2) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (3) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

It seems clear from the end of Revelation that our 'eternal' home will be the new Earth and God will dwell amongst us. What that new earth will be like, is probably impossible to imagine, especially as we consider what the Lord appeared like at the beginning of Revelation. Both Jerusalem and the Bride are pictures of the church, so this picture is very clear.

I have focussed on your word 'eternal' and the time from Rev 21 onwards is clear. Until then, there is perhaps more to debate.

Kind regards
Mike

I made a bo-bo using the word "inheritance." I know we receive part of our inheritance in part when we become followers of Christ.

The main reason I started this thread is because I have a concept of where we live out eternity and I wanted to see if people much wiser than I am could shoot holes in it.

From my understanding of the scriptures, the ONLY time we go to heaven is immediately following the resurrection of the righteous. Then we spend the rest of the time (1) reigning on earth with Christ in the millennium and (2) living with him and the Father in New Jerusalem on the new earth.

Jesus tells us in John 14 that in his Father's house are many mansions and that he goes to prepare a place for us. SO, where that physical location is matters not to me. I just know it will exceed our most wonderful imagination and that is good enough for me. :-)

Does a saint get there upon death? Good question! Since I am unsure what will happen to the spirit upon the body's decease, I just know that it belongs to God and he will take good care of it. :-)

I love the fact there will be no sin in heaven, nor anything that makes a lie. The weather will be perfect...no floods or hurricanes or tornadoes, or tears..it just will be wonderful. If we believe this why do we allow so many stupid things distract us from our goal? (And what is meant by stupid? I will let you decide - I suspect its identity will differ amongst us all.)

The problem I have with using 2 Corinthians 5:8 to support an instantaneous heaven dwelling is 1 Corinthians 15:50 "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."

That says to me, without our imperishable bodies, we cannot inhabit the kingdom of God.

As for Luke 23:43, there's no way the verse means the thief would be with Jesus THAT day in heaven.

The ESV translates the passage as, "And he said to him, 'Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.'"

Notice the placement of the comma. It indicates the translator's assumption that the thief went immediately to heaven with Jesus. In the Greek, there are no such punctuation marks to indicate this is the case.

John 20:17 says, "Jesus said to her, 'Do not cling to me, FOR I HAVE NOT YET ASCENDED to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'’”

And John 3:13 says, "NO ONE HAS ASCENDED into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man."

Therefore, it is impossible for the thief to have been in heaven that day - regardless of whether you think we go to heaven instantly after death.