Security and Apostasy

What security is promised to God's children?

The comforting words of Jesus in the Gospel of John, chapter 10: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life: and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

What do these verses teach us?

That God is greater than any adversary of our souls, and therefore we are safe while we remain in His care.

In other words, once we become God's children, we are then eternally secure?

Only if we meet the conditions. We must give heed to the Good Shepherd's voice and follow him.

What of those who claim to be Christians, yet do not follow Christ in their daily lives?

If they do not obey His commandments, we must conclude they are not Christ's sheep. (John 14:15, 23; 1 John 2:4; Luke 6:46, etc.) Therefore, those who do not follow him are not secure.

If Jesus said no man is able to pluck His sheep out of His hand, or out of his Father's hand, how is it possible to fall away from God?

By refusing to meet God's conditions, or by backsliding into sin. God has done His part toward man's salvation, but it remains for man to do his part to avail himself of this free gift of God. We can liken this to a man caught in a storm. God has provided a shelter, and if man by the drawing of God's Spirit is willing to enter that shelter and remain there, the rain and wind can do him no harm. But as a creature of free will, he can choose to leave the shelter and walk out into the storm.

Are there any examples in the New Testament of believers who fell away from the true faith, or voluntarily turned back to a sinful life?

There are. We will list several here:

(1) "For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world" (II Tim. 4:10).

(2) "Holding faith, and a good conscience, which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme" (I Tim. 1:19, 20).

(3) "But now, after that ye [Galatians] have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?. . .I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain" (Gal. 4:9, 11).

What things are not able to separate us from the love of God?

"For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Rom. 8:38, 39).

Note anything missing from the above list? Sin is not listed.

What however can and will separate us from God?

"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have made him hide his face from you, that he will not hear" (Isa. 59:2).

"He that committeth sin is of the devil" (I John 3:8).

"Any man see his brother sin . . . . There is a sin unto death" (I John 5:16). What warnings are given us to beware of apostasy?

Here are a few:

(1) "No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God" (Luke 9:62).

(2) "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God" (Heb. 3:12).

(3) "Remember Lot's wife" (Luke 17:32).

(4) "Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief" (Heb. 4:11).

(5) "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall" (I Cor. 10:12).

(6) "Beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness" (II Pet. 3:17).

What emphasis did Jesus place on abiding in Him?

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me . . . If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned . . . If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love" (John 15:4, 6, 10).

What do we make of the teaching, "Once a son, always a son"?

It is faulty. If it were true, we could never become God's children in the first place, for the Bible says we are all born "children of wrath" (Eph. 2:3) and with Adam's nature.

Others insist that a child of God cannot fall from God's favor, no matter what kind of life he leads. They say that "Once born, it is impossible to be unborn." Are they right?

This is a dangerous teaching that has given false hope to many a backslidden Christian. Even the analogy is distorted -- the opposite of birth is not unbirth, but death. A child may die, and it is likewise possible for a child of God to fall away from God and die a spiritual death. "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom. 8:13).

What does the prophet Ezekiel write about this?

"But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth accord-ing to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die" (Ezek. 18:24).

What does the writer to the Hebrews declare is impossible?

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame" (Heb. 6:4-6).

What is even worse than to never have known the way of righteousness?

To have known it, and then turn away from it. (See II Pet. 2:20, 21).

To what does Peter compare the apostate Christian?

"To a dog that eats its own vomit, or to a sow that having washed herself goes right back to wallowing in the mire again." (II Pet. 2:22; also Prov. 26:11).

Does the Bible predict a period of apostasy is coming?

Yes, Paul wrote to the Thessalonians, "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [of Christ] shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" (II Thess. 2:3).

What did Paul write to Timothy on this subject?

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron" (I Tim. 4:1, 2).

How can we summarize these teachings?

It is not God's will that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (II Pet. 3:9), yet He will not force His will upon anyone. Man is given a free will to choose whom he will serve, and therefore he has his part to do to avail himself of God's free gift of salvation.

Our eternal destiny is conditional not only on our becoming a child of God, but on remaining one --persevering in the faith unto death. "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God (II Cor. 7:1).

"Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: for so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" (II Pet. 1:10, 11).

From 1001 Questions and Answers on the Christian Life Copyright 1992 by Pathway Publishers, LaGrange, Indiana USA
Available from:
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Excellent post. Very encouraging!

Total obedience to every word that comes out of the mouth of Yahweh is not legalism;
Its Love, true love.

"Note anything missing from the above list? Sin is not listed".

So does this mean that whenever we sin God ceases to love us?

This subject of assurance as baffled and perplexed me for many years. I've never been a fan of or believed in eternal security, but I've always been freaked out by this notion that you must be more or less perfect to have assurance of salvation. I can remember hearing Andrew Strom once say that if you have any sin on your conscience then you're going to hell.

Is God really that unforgiving towards his children?

Please note, I'm not talking about persistent, willful sin - that, of course, leads to death. I'm on about the ways in which we mess up on a daily basis, and the bad attitudes and selfishness that can never seem to be weeded out fully.

I can remember hearing Andrew Strom once say that if you have any sin on your conscience then you're going to hell.

I trust that you simply heard him wrong, because if he said that then he would have been terribly wrong. Even the Apostle Paul wrote clearly about his own struggle with his flesh (sin)... and surely no one thinks that at those times Paul was going to hell. Paul certainly did not believe that.

We are not saved by our works... so how can works keep us saved? If it can then we have something to boast about.

Krispy

Dear dietolive, No, you don't have to be circumcised to be saved.

But you have to repent from INIQUITY and I will receive you he said, I will blot out your past sins said Yahweh.

The word INIQUITY is used throughout the Holy Scriptures. here is the dictionary definition

in·iq·ui·ty   [ih-nik-wi-tee]
1.gross injustice or wickedness.
2.a violation of right or duty; wicked act; sin.

So we see here that iniquity is Sin

Now lets look at the scriptural definition of sin;

John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

All I hear on this forum is "Paul said this, Paul said that"
Forget about what the Savior said in Matthew 5:17, forget what Yahweh said; let's just stick to what we feel.

Brethren, Yahweh is not forcing anybody to be a part of his kingdom. By free will you can partake, if you qualify.

Zechariah 14:16 --Isa 66:23 tells us point blank that the Laws will be kept during the Millennium Rule

..And it shall come to pass in that day that everyone who is left of all the nations which come against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts and to keep the "FEAST OF TABERNACLES"

Suprise, suprise, the Feast of Tabernacles is one of the Laws. Why won't we believe what the scriptures say.

if you qualify.

as an Israelite in the flesh, having been raised in the synagogue from the time i was 7, taught Torah, Hebrew, until the time came, in front of the whole assembly of the synagogue, i read a portion of Leviticus, in Hebrew, from a Torah, that had been pulled out of a european well where the nazi's, servants of the destroyer, had thrown it into, ask you this SIMPLE question:

what does, "if you qualify" mean?

and to ask again, two very simple questions i asked before, are you a Jew like me, an Israelite?....and are you part of what can be termed the "Hebrew Roots" movement?

these last two questions are very simple to answer, either a yes or a no will suffice.

you caused much upset the other day, because i accused Krispy of baiting you. i'm not baiting you, the first question, you can answer in your way, the second two with a yes or no.

if you answer the second question, are you a Jew? with a "no", and by a "no", what i mean is, are you Israelite in the flesh?....then sir, you have no idea, how lonely it is to be as such, knowing full well the sordid history of the institution of rome towards my people, knowing full well how the writings of Luther degenerated into demonic vile venomous spew and hatred, to wit, "On Jews annd their Lies".

the ecclesiology of the Christian Church in whatever form, is somewhat foreign to me, but i rejoice that BY FAITH, these of nations have been ingrafted into the Vine thru the Blood of the Passover Lamb, the Son of God, Messiah Jesus...and i have NO PROBLEM using the greek derivations of His Name...and yet i see the tribe of my flesh, Isarelites, Jews...so so close, yet so far...and it tears me apart, and here you come, ready to shut the Door of the Kingdom of God IN THEIR FACES, and you might not even be of the Tribe of Judah.

Praise God a Merciful God you are not within my reach, too many of my people have died, without knowing the Simple Freedom the Blood of Messiah offers, and you come erecting hellish fences, and that "if you qualify" palaber.

better be straight with your answers right now, otherwise one of us WILL BE exiting this forum, i can assure of that.

neil/Yonatan, my Hebrew name.

Dear HezWelling, you said you're an "Israelite in the flesh"
and you read the Torah, should I care?

Secondly, you asked me a question and then threatened me to answer. Are you serious?

You said and I quote: (better be straight with your answers right now, otherwise one of us WILL BE exiting this forum, i can assure of that.)

I forgive you.

Doug... never heard before that people did not consider that Paul was talking about himself when Paul said in Romans 7:14-25:

“For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.”

How can that not be Paul talking about his struggle, and a struggle common to all believers?

I love ya, brother... be we must disagree if you are putting forward the idea that everytime we sin we lose our salvation. Certainly thats not what you believe, is it?

If it is then we lose our salvation multiple times a day, do we not?

I'm hoping I've misunderstood you.

Krispy

the second time i asked two very simple questions, you still not will not answer, which indicates a lack of transparency.

you burst onto a discussion forum, with agenda, and then dont even have either the courage or the grace to be transparent,

in your opague setting, somehow your urge to forgive me, does not ring true, neither does your theo-rhetoric.

i am confident you will impale yourself on your own petard, its just a matter of time, quickly now, your master is impatient, his time is short, and he has much havoc to wreak.

I'll go back and read that again, and perhaps I'll understand you better.

As for not being surprised that I have not heard this apparent secret piece of theological history, I will refer to RC Sproul who has said that if you all of a sudden discover something brand new theologically that no one else has ever discovered before in 2,000 years of church history... that is called a "red flag".

I do not put stock in "hidden" revelations. And keep in mind that while there is much we can learn from the early church fathers, there was also much rank heresy in those days just as there is today. Look at all the warnings, and all the attention from Paul and others concerning false doctrines and teachers. They were addressing their contemporaries.

There were plenty of 1st and 2nd century Joel Osteens and Benny Hinns. Thats not a 21st century phenom.

Krispy

I love ya brother, but I do not accept this view of that passage. We'll have to disagree here.

Krispy