I have seen a lot of posts concerning Romans 7 lately. This thread is really not about that.
I do want to say that as a born again Christian I did have a very hard and long strong struggle with sin in my life.
I want to know if you have experienced this struggle in the past or are now still struggling with sin.
Hello tuc
Yes I had a hard struggle with sin. No matter what, there was something within me that did not want to submit fully. Oh yes on most things I was willing but when it came to doing good to my enemies, I did not want to do it although I would do it but I did not want to. So that was merely an outward obedience. I found that in other things. I sometimes did not want to pray or read the scriptures, but I would do it. During these dry times, I knew my love for other thigs would compete with the love I had for Christ and sometimes I did not really love Him. Oh I feared Him and admired Him all right but I knew that if I loved Him with all my heart then other things would mean nothing. But I still liked my comfort, I still liked to have things go ok and something inside rebelled when things went bad. I did not want discipline or suffering.
It was the baptism of the Holy Spirit which put an end to all of this up and down Christianity.
I will say looking back, that even though my sins were deliberate, calculated, willful, and premeditated; these sins NEVER separated me from God. I did NOT loose my salvation.
God was never angry with me.
The way God delivers us from the power of sin is the same principle by which light overpowers darkness. Think of a room filled with darkness as the sin in your life and members. On the ceiling of this dark room is a lightbulb, and when you are walking in the Spirit, the lightbulb is turned on and the room is filled with light.
Light has an automatic expulsive force to darkness. It's a universal law. While the light is on, darkness is banished from the proximity of the light's strength. The reason we see stars over 1,000 light years away, is because of the expulsive power of light over darkness in all the cosmos. I'm sure you've experienced times in the past when you've felt yourself so full of the Spirit of God, nothing in hell could quake your faith. No woman in the world could draw your eyes from Jesus during those times; no amount of earthly money could steer your mind from the glory and infinitely priceless majesty of God in Christ.
Understand that you were walking in the Spirit of God during that time. As we mature in Christ, God breaks us down more and more to where we can receive the grace of the Spirit's light in our lives. He shows us what it is like to have an eye filled with darkness, to where sin reigns in our members. When He expells the darkness yet again, we remember the bondage and subsequent liberation and learn to value the Holy Spirit even more. In time, we begin to covet the light, we seek to remain in the light as long as we can at all expense, and we learn how to mortify the deeds of the body by the Spirit of God and take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ in our mind - the secret for keeping the darkness at bay.
There is another thread in the forum, running concurrently with this one: Understanding Mortification. It may help you understand some of these things better, as mortification is the key for abiding and maintaining an abode in Christ by walking in the Spirit. If we walk in the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Gal. 5:16).
Let me say this,
We will be attmepting to conquer sin in our lives for as long as we live. No one will be totally free of mistakes or sin, there will always b some poison that bcomes our weakness. In other words, it will alwayz appear that we are struggling/ fighting with something, but the important part of all this is that men observe the outward trying to figure out why am I still sinning or why does this person say one thing and do the other, but God looks and know the inner parts, and what is most important to God is our hearts intention and motives, for He knoweth the way that I take.
Brother Paul,
LOVE THIS, and thanks for writing.
At times in my life I've fasted for periods and noticed that the more that I fasted, the worse that I felt about my self so I would quit. Thankfully, I heard a sermon from brother Zac Poonen where he explained the exact same thing, his point was 'DON'T GIVE UP AT THIS POINT' and then he read Isaiah 6 where the prophet got close to the Lord and was more aware of sin. Fasting is a wonderful blessing and now I know how to overcome in it.
As for my brothers and sisters struggling with sin, I'm in the same boat, at times it takes everything that I can do just to be gentle and nice to people. Please pray for me will you? I want this sin broke off of my life! I don't want to have to kill people with kindness, I want kindness to be the first thing that I manifest, not anger.
Thank you for listening, Love all of you!
Thanks a lot for sharing. As a young Christian, I am experiencing this struggle in full force and it sometimes feels like I'm the only one with these problems. Sometimes, I lose all will to fight and pray, and I go around all day thinking, "I'm not going to pray today, I am too tired!" But of course, the Lord will not have me do that. I find myself on my knees again.
I'm struggling A LOT, more than I can explain, but I know things will get better. I'm so blessed by all the testimonies in this thread, and I wanted to say thanks for sharing.
And about fasting,I've been trying to fast since the beginning of this year (yes, January) but I've failed to do so! I've tried many times and given up because of sin or discouragement. There aren't many Christians around me so when I get discouraged, I really get discouraged. But the Lord is faithful still and I know He is teaching and purging me, even through all this.
The Lord bless you guys.
I am thinking that growth in Christ is the never ending increase of the awareness of what God has ALREADY done for me.
As my awareness grows the more I embrace what I now see. Then I can truly enjoy and experience what I have seen.
Then God opens my eyes even more to see more cleanly what he has accomplished for me.
This is a never ending cycle!!!!!!!!!!!
The more I see the more I grow. The more I grow the more I see.
If you are struggling with sin then ask God to open your eyes to what He has ALREADY done for you and then walk in that.
Just embrace and enjoy THE LIFE OF CHRIST that God has already given you and sin will no longer be your master.
God has made you dead and you are dead to sin, now embrace that and enjoy it!!!
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
That is a good sign DLIGHT,
that means that u are learning to accept yourself as you really are, hopeless, filthy, and powerless without Christ's influence and power.
U r dying to the mechanical effects of religion, and will rise to life in Jesus. I must say that it is a process,and God will show you the way, but do not worry or fear.
I am experiencing this struggle in full force and it sometimes feels like I'm the only one with these problems. Sometimes, I lose all will to fight and pray, and I go around all day thinking, "I'm not going to pray today, I am too tired!" But of course, the Lord will not have me do that.
Good that you came to recognize this too early in your life. I was like you and I know many great men of God who passed this stage in their life. This is exactly what Paul talks in Romans 7.
The key to come out of it is to be broken, every time you sin you actually suppress the voice of Holy Spirit saying that I can do it. For example if a brother hurts you, the Holy Spirit tells you to forgive him but you chose not to forgive him and decide that this brother needs to learn a lesson from you. Then you sin in anger. Then you fall short of the glory that God has promised for you. The key is to standup immediately, repent and accept your weakness of Anger. The more you accept you are weak the more you succeed.
Blessed are the poor in Spirit for theirs is the kingdom of God.
A poor man will keep begging for food everyday. So keep asking God for grace everyday. Not just Fast and pray one day and then be satisfied with it.
He who started the good work in you will perfect you until the day of the lord. So perfecting you is an everyday process and not a one day process. Be patient as he is patient with us.
I can't say that I have had the same experience of the general method of deliverance of sin as what is being taught here. And it does truly make me wonder if these methods are just hopeful words and not the real truth. Simply because the idea of being gradually weaned off our worst sins is never taught by Jesus
I had severe sexual addictions which consumed all of my being and generally destroyed my walk with the Lord. I now stand here and speak as someone who never lusts.
To say you can't overcome your sins and you will probably be like this in your lifetime just isn't true. But it's an incredible blindness the church is captivated by... in the hope they don't have to enter a hard path and turn away from the things they secretly enjoy.
I won't make this too long. But as a very young Christian I read a best selling Christian testimony of a man who was in prison and who intended to murder one of the guards. He had a knife in his prison cell. In the night Jesus appeared to him in the cell and told him 'I am Jesus. If you want to follow me you will have to drive the evil out of your heart'.
I completely shunned this testimony as it didn't fit in with my theology.
About ten years ago, I felt that God showed me that I was going to die ... shortly after this i became very ill and terrified that I was not ready to meet God. I believed he would expose all of the wrong thoughts I had had in my life.
I asked God to give me a month or two to repent. I went out each night and prayed ... every time I had a wrong thought that would begin to tempt me I shunned it choosing not to enjoy it's pleasures. I began breaking the habit of a lifetime and emotionally began to change towards sexual temptation. It took about 5 weeks and I felt that I had overcome the temptations.
I'm pretty fed up with people having theories which leave repentance and a hard road out.
Take every thought captive...
from David.
I can't say that I have had the same experience of the general method of deliverance of sin as what is being taught here. And it does truly make me wonder if these methods are just hopeful words and not the real truth. Simply because the idea of being gradually weaned off our worst sins is never taught by JesusI had severe sexual addictions which consumed all of my being and generally destroyed my walk with the Lord. I now stand here and speak as someone who never lusts.
Hi Sree, yes I agree with you ... I need to be careful. We are human and prone to temptation.
Thanks for not getting angry with me about what I said.
I have also been set free by taking every thought captive of other major sins in my life. I did have hatred for my mother and lots of other people. I never feel hatred now and have compassion and forgiveness for nearly everyone I see or meet.
When you begin to repent God redirects the course of your life from being a so called "unlucky" person to one who has their life transformed by God... well that is my experience in my life. I long to share this with others who feel bound by their sin which is why I have written this.
I long to share this with others who feel bound by their sin which is why I have written this.
We just need to be careful that we dont venture off into promoting "sinless prefection". There is no such thing. That is not taught in scripture either.
Show me a man who claims to be perfectly sinless, and I will show you a man who's sin is pride (and lying).
Krispy
Dear KrispyKrittr
Please would you give your definition of sinless perfection for clarity. Thanks
Brenda
Some refer to it as “Total Sanctification”, which means that a believer can reach such a state of sanctification in this life here on earth that they never have a sinful thought or action. This is clearly false, especially when you read the book of James. James writes, "For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body" (James 3:2).
So, is James not saying here that a man can indeed be perfect? No, because only a few verses later, he comments, "But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison" (James 3:8).
James is stating as a fact that no man can tame even the tongue to the point of perfection, not to mention his whole body. People who claim sinless perfection are calling James a liar and are calling the Scripture a lie.
Certainly we should strive to tame the tongue. We should strive to live holy and extract sin from our lives. But it is unrealistic to expect perfection when the Bible itself plainly says such perfection is impossible.
That's the whole point of the gospel!
1 John 1:8 states simply, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
Think about this… if someone says they have reached sinless perfection in this life then it could be argued that they do not have the truth which is a light that exposes to us how dark and sinful we really are in our flesh. That is a dangerous place to be.
And what of humility? How can a man or woman claim they are perfect, and make that claim with humility? In my estimation a humble person would never claim such a thing even if it were true.
1 John 1:8-10 says, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
If we claim we have no sin in our life… but the truth is that we do… then we can not confess that sin. Without confession there is no forgiveness. If we say we have not sinned we call Christ a liar.
Some think this is referring to before we are saved. No, who is this being written to? The church, believers.
NOW… positionally spiritually, in Christ, we are made perfect. That happens when God saves us. When our hearts are regenerated. We are made clean and forgiven and justification makes us positionally holy. We take on Christ’s righteousness spiritually. This is clearly taught in the Bible… but sinless perfection in our flesh is never taught in the Bible. People have to mangle and do violence to scripture in order to smash “sinless perfection” into it.
Krispy
I hope that I can be helpful here as have much teaching on perfection. In Matt. 5:48 it says be ye perfect even as your father in heaven is perfect.
In a second's thought we know it is not possible to be perfect as God. If we can understand what he is saying there then we won't be confused.
We think in a full tense what is being said sometimes and miss what is being said. If we were asked to pick up the telephone we immediately go to the one near by. Maybe they were saying go to the store accross the street and pick up the phone.
Hope you see my analogy.
Be perfect as your father is dealing with the previous statements before the verse.
righteousness is perfection. If you give food to a hungry person that is a righteous deed. That is a example of perfection.
We must keep our coarse to always be righteous in all we do---proof--Col.3:17 whatsoever you do in word or in deed do all in the name of Jesus.
That means do all for the glory of God----that is righteous and according to God's standards. Those things which line up with the word of God are perfect for the bible tells us of many righteous things to do. They are perfect because they come from God.
1Jn.1:9 tells us we are restored to God's pleasure when we apologise his way. In God's eyes we are seen as perfect because we are made total clean by the blood of Jesus. i will always be seen as unclean and called self righteous.
It is only God who can justify us and call us forgiven .
If we live a life full of sin we will be seen unrighteous. We must surrender our lives to God and not straddle the fence of sin. Jesus paid the high place of death to remove sin so we would seek to live in perfect righteous standards given us.
I might add, he has also given us a covenant of benefits and rewards to be incentives for living what is called the new life. The old man must be put to death.Gal.2:20
This new life is a life of faith and trust. It will cost us everything as true disciples. Lk.9 and 14 chaps.
Lot's wife looked back and became a pillar of salt. Jesus says he that puts his hand to the plough and looks back is not fit for the kingdom. It is only by the help of th Holy Spirit in us that we can do all these marvelous things. I am blessed as I look at all the times mercy and forgiveness has restored me. There is a difference between mistakes and doing sin on purpose. We can pray the prayer our father which art in heaven---coming to the part where it says deliver us from evil. He makes a way of escape as we keep our eyes on him. God bless.
Krispy
I know that you do not believe it is then ok to sin, we must seek holiness. So you think that it is inevitable that man will fall occasionally. So what is his position between falls?
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