Lot & Samson

Q. Did Lot & Samson lead holy lives?
A. _______

If no, were they saved?

If yes, can you furnish some examples from the Scriptures?

Thanks for your consideration

Hey,

Hmm this is an interesting question.

I think Samson though he fell repented in the end and His faith was counted as righteousness I take this from two passages.

Hebrews 11 where he is mentioned among the faithful
and Romans 3 where it talks of righteousness obtained through faith

32And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets— 33who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. 35 Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life. 36Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two,[a] they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated— 38of whom the world was not worthy— wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect. Heb 11:32-39

I think with Samson at the end of his life he did lead a holy life because of the repentence that is seen with action and blessing from God though prior to this he seemed to compromise a lot.

With Lot

well the NT scriptures say
(for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds), 2 Peter 2:8

hmm I think holy and righteous are two different things
the definition of Holy is set apart from what I know
if that is what it is means than I dont think Lot did? since he did not separate himself but was very much a part of the wicked city? He sorta compromised a lot. Even when the angel was trying to save him he wanted to stay in the town and not the mountains (but went eventually)

I think the bible says righteous because he still beleived God in faith?

those are just my thoughts

hi, there is only one way to be saved and that is by faith in the finished work of Jesus.past ,present, and future. i would also put solomon in the same discussion. one day we will know, and i am not the person who is in charge of that right now.

EvangelTam, please expound a bit on this you said below:

"I think with Samson at the end of his life he did lead a holy life because of the repentence that is seen with action and blessing from God..."

Are you saying that repentance = leading a holy life?

I would say Samson was likely saved, or at least he was commended by Paul or the writer of Hebrews as one in the "Hall of Faith" so to speak or at least that's what I have always heard chapter 11 called.

EvangelTam,

I was hoping you'd come back to this thread as I addressed a question to you regarding your post.

Thanks.

O sorry yeah

What I mean was that
I believe that any true repentance must accompany a greater degree of holiness in the life of a person in that he has turned away from sin and toward God. Its sorta just the natural cause and effect.

SO in that way Samson repented and lived holy for a short period of his life

But if you talk about a life of holiness as a whole than it is hard to argue that he did.

if we throw in Solomon we could also talk about Asa and Uzziah as well the Kings who did good but then in the end did not. It sorta parallels the spiritual condition of many Christians today.

Old_Joe wrote, on 2011/12/4 23:04:19

Lot-saved
Samson-saved
Solomon-saved
Jonathan-saved
Uzziah-saved
Jacob-saved
Barak-saved
Ruth-saved

I agree with you Joe, not because your old either!

But, why do you suppose Zac Poonen would judge and condemn Solomon to hell?

Do you suppose it has to do with the Q&A I asked in the original post?

The Q&A in the original post is related to the thread that Greg Gordon started "CATECHISM FOR YOUNG CHILDREN". Related in that many were stumped by the question about those who are saved being only those who lead holy lives. Yet others were not stumped. This should cause many to begin to soberly examine their understanding of the Gospel of God's Grace, and His salvation which is by faith alone in Christ's finished work alone.

Lot-saved
Samson-saved
Solomon-saved
Jonathan-saved
Uzziah-saved
Jacob-saved
Barak-saved
Ruth-saved

How were these made perfect?

Oldjoe,

are you just saying Tamar is an interesting story or asking about her salvation?

If so, I think she was saved because what she shows her righteous character.

26 Judah recognized them and said, “She is more righteous than I, since I wouldn’t give her to my son Shelah.” And he did not sleep with her again. Ge 38:36

She risked her life to prouce an heir for her deceased husband and even waited all those years for Judah's younger son to grow up! Though Judah treated her unfairly, she went to all lengths to do what was right.

This verse is brought to me mind:
But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint. 1 Tim 2:15

also one more question

Is it possible that Ananias and Sapphira were saved and though they were judged by God because of their disobedience it was a diciplinary act that was meant to save them?

Or were they really unsaved and inregenerate from the start?

thanks that makes sense

hmmm yeah I guess the Tamar story is interesting
Though i think according to the customs of the time that was what was supposed to be done?

I guess these were strange times before the Old Covenant law was in place a lot of things were covered in God's mysterious grace?

EvangelTam wrote:
Is it possible that Ananias and Sapphira were saved and though they were judged by God because of their disobedience it was a diciplinary act that was meant to save them?

Or were they really unsaved and inregenerate from the start?

To me, if you read chap 4 and 5 logically as one chapter, it shows that Ananias and Sapphira were there in Acts 4.31 when they were all filled with the Holy Spirit. Chapter 4 doesn’t miss a beat as it flows straight into chapter 5 introducing Ananias.

In defense of people filled with the Holy Spirit; contrary to popular belief, the baptism doesn’t make people perfect. If you are a selfish person when you are baptized in the Holy Spirit, guess what? You are STILL a selfish person afterwards! But you have the power to overcome it if you choose to allow the Lord to have His way in your life. And this was the one place Ananias could have died to his flesh but he sought to save his life and instead lost it.

I believe the key sentence to proving they were saved is when Ananias walked into the room in Acts 5.3 and Peter asked him, “Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit?” An unsaved person cannot lie to the Holy Spirit because they do not have any association with the Holy Spirit whatsoever.

I could be wrong but this is just my understanding of the Scriptures and forgive me if I've offended you by interfering with your conversation.
God bless,
Lisa

Old_Joe,

I asked, "But, why do you suppose Zac Poonen would judge and condemn Solomon to hell?"

You answered, "I am not sure you want me to answer that question regarding Poonen."

I'd not have asked if I did not want you to answer. Now, if you're not sure you want to answer, that is up to you. But I am sure I want you to answer.

I'd also like for you to clarify what you meant when you wrote, "I will willingly go where Solomon is, but I want no part of where Poonen is going."

If any who are reading this thread/post would like proof that Zac Poonen judges and condemns Solomon to hell I can surely provide you with that.

Thanks.

Yes please post Pooens reasoning why Solomon went to hell
I dont think he did but he will be judged for what he did and his wayward heart.

God punished him and disciplined him for his sin by raising up opponents to oppose him (just like he did with David) but I believe he was saved.