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L
learjet Dec 1, 2011

A leading religious conservative warned Newt Gingrich Wednesday that he risks losing the support of evangelical women voters if the Republican presidential hopeful refuses to publicly address his "turbulent martial history."

"Mr. Speaker, if you want to get large numbers of evangelicals, particularly women, to vote for you, you must address the issue of your marital past in a way that allays the fears of evangelical women," Richard Land, president of the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, said in an open letter to the former House speaker. "You must address this issue of your marital past directly and transparently and ask folks to forgive you and give you their trust and their vote."

This article strikes me as odd, the 'leading religious conservative' seems more concerned about PR than actual biblical repentance.

If folks would put more energy into creating disciples and BEING a witness I have a feeling that we would be a lot further along than we are now. Get the plank out of your eye (look at divorce rates in the institutionalized church), maybe when the statistics are a little better we will have a pulpit to speak from. It would do us well to get out of the political area and back into the prayer closet, we might just see a church emerge with the power of the early church.

The bible does not say 'if my people, who are called by my name will form political action committees and support the right candidates then I will hear from heaven' it says 'if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.' -2 Chronicles 7:14

I hear pragmatism being spoken against in a lot of messages lately but isn't it about time to sit down and ask ourselves a simple question 'IS WHAT WE ARE DOING WORKING?' I would submit it that it isn't. Pragmatism is what was used when the Lord evaluated what the servants did with His talents. How ridiculous would it be to keep handing your money to an investor who continually lost your money? "Well we're doing a lot of good things, we'll get there eventually..." Folks in ensconced positions don't like pragmatism because it puts them under the microscope and calls them to account for their actions.

One of the worst experiences that I've had in the last 2 years was going to a 'pro life' fundraising banquet, the saving grace was the speakers, they were excellent. While talking to some of the people there I was struck by how militant they were, the Lord certainly wasn't in their attitudes. They had a more 'ram it down your throat' air about them than compassion. Jesus never got into all of this hubub, in fact He left folks tried to get Him to join their righteous causes. Think about how many women have had abortions, would they feel welcome in many churches? Would we tell them that there is forgiveness and healing in Jesus? Could they tell by just speaking with us or would they have to suffer in silence? The point is: is what they are doing WORKING?

Most times when I take an honest assessment of my life with the direction of the Holy Spirit I don't like what I see, that is the essence of pragmatism. This pragmatism often times produces good results.

Theres a saying that goes "desperate times call for desperate measures..." we are at a place where desperate measures must be taken we need a radical shift in the church.

Many people like the following definition of the word 'REVOLUTION':

"an overthrow or repudiation and the thorough replacement of an established government or political system by the people governed."

I like this one better:

REVOLUTION: a procedure or course, as if in a circuit, back to a starting point.

Back to the place when the church was powerful and radically committed to being Christlike, and producing Christlike, powerful, disciples like Steven or Polycarp.

Join me in praying for this would you?

Thanks for listening! :-) Much love!

S
sonsigns Dec 1, 2011

Learjet, Amen!

You touched on the true issue of the hour.

(There's a saying that goes "desperate times call for desperate measures..." we are at a place where desperate measures must be taken we need a radical shift in the church).

The Church needs to wake up from it's slumber. The alarm of Eternity is ringing... Are you (Church) Listening?
Can you not hear or heed the call from our Lord and sovereign King?
Are we deaf? If you are can't you feel the vibrations of the church of this hour slipping into outer darkness? Not hell yet, However, she is slipping into the world, which in my opinion is a worse condition to be in.

It is my opinion, that if the church was doing her job the Government wouldn't be on the cusps of socialism today. The people wouldn't be crying out for a hand out as much as a hand up.
Where is the true church at this hour?

Leonard Ravenhill, said, that if the church did not see revival soon, the church will see it in concentration camps.

If President Obama, and other socialist like him and worse than he (Obama) have there way, it won't be long before the church will be operating in concentration camps.

The world loves its own and hates you with a vehemence passion. It is there nature to do so.

The Church needs more than a revolution it needs revival.

sermonindex Dec 1, 2011

Newt is not the answer.

No politician is the answer. Look at all the Christians who look stupid now for throwing their lot in with Herman Cain! What a fool it looks like he is... and so too the evangelicals who have supported him because he sings Amazing Grace so well.

Jesus is the answer. The gospel is the answer.

Obama needs to go, there is no doubt about that. But at the end of the day the answer will NEVER be found in politics.

Krispy

D
dietolive Dec 1, 2011

Quote:
"...the answer will NEVER be found in politics."

AMEN Brother Krispy!

Be well,
Doug

G
ginnyrose Dec 2, 2011

Krispy wrote:
Obama needs to go, there is no doubt about that. But at the end of the day the answer will NEVER be found in politics.

I agree.

Yet how can one know whether the reports of Cain's infidelity are true? How do we not know that these reports are lies but are a ploy used by the Obama camp to discredit any strong opposition?

Earl: Richard Land, IMHO, does have a legitimate concern, IMHO. How can a man lead the country when his marital affairs are not above board? You also make the point the church's record of marital infidelity is not commendable, either. This is only true when you consider the apostate organization called church as being the church. Among the godly this is not true.

Still...politics stinks...am getting more disgruntled with it then ever. Even the local politics are bad enough to provide Frank Peretti with a lot of inspiration for a novel.


sermonindex Dec 3, 2011

Hey GinnyRose! good to see ya!

I believe that Obama was sent by God, ordained if you will, to bring awful destruction and chaos to America. I think he possesses an anti-Christ spirit, that exalts all things wicked, and against American ascendency and morale.

He has worked hard to DESTROY business and the creation of wealth, to demoralize and decimate or military power..[ the pink brigade...shrinkage of numbers, and hardware etc.]

He loves Abortion as the right to murder, and uses wicked Marxism as a tool to divide and conquer with class envy, and promotes overwhelming illegal immigration as Constitutional in order to overwhelm our financial systems.

He is a Muslim, first and above all, and on Thanksgiving day refused to acknowledge God...the first American President to do so in his speech on that day.

His mentor, Saul Alinski, who ruled Chicago Social/Marxist power bases, dedicated his cruel book filled with cruel strategies to WIN.....to Lucifer..."The first Rebel!"

This is Obama's declared role model. He is overseeing the utter destruction of every strength America yet possesses, and will do all the harm possible in the short time he resides as President.

This mandate, given to him by the Lord, yet through dark princes he loves, overshadows ANY desire to be re-elected...in a sense...he doesn't care. He's just biding his time, while he does his job.....to bring this great country down to her knees.

In the midst of this, however, the Holy Church will be exalted, and the overcomers rejoice...even unto His glorious return, right here in the ole' USA. We're in for a ride...brothers and sisters. Look up, and trust. Jesus is still on His Throne, and this Tribulation is from Him to determine who loves Him more than their own way, and their own life.

M
MrBillPro Dec 3, 2011

KrispyKrittr......Obama needs to go, there is no doubt about that.
Krispy

Your right! he does need to go, but his chances of staying are getting better everyday. I personally believe "as much as I am against it" he will be back.

S
Sidewalk Dec 4, 2011

Strong words from BrotherTom, but probably very insightful.

God has never hesitated to use evil men and nations to execute His judgements, my jaw is in perpetual drop mode as I witness the spectre that is President Obama.

He never even hid his intentions of what he wanted to do to America, to destroy our lofty and arrogant position on the world stage. He has literally destroyed our national currency, opposed all the values we thought were permanent fixtures in our "Christian Country."

We have descended into debt that can never be repaid, have lost our authority to raise our children with Godly values, and forbidden our pastors to make political statements. Speaking ill of homosexuality from the pulpit is actionable as hate speech, and pastors must navigate a delicate path to avoid losing tax-free status.

I can't even legally carry my gun here in California, but someone in this administration allowed over 2000 guns to walk freely into Mexico contrary to both law and reason. Those guns were going to some really bad people, the government knew it, and have subsequently killed a lot of innocent people.

I could go on and on here, but you are probably in the choir on most of it.

My interest is Daniel, a young man who was carried off to Babylon because he was born at the wrong time in history. He became a slave not for his own crimes, but because of the crimes of others! It wasn't easy for him, but he remained faithful to God and did that which pleased the Father. He was completely successful in the things God gave him, but he never left the land of his captivity. Never the less, he will stand in the last days!,

I too believe we are in for a very rough ride, one that will hopefully lead to a speedy revival but not without great losses in both America and probably Europe.

Many hope in the pre-tribulation rapture, but I don't see that as God's way. Daniel was God's man, and I want to be like him. I see him as the model for when believers go into cultural catastrophe.

One more thing. I'm not going down quietly. I will fight in the sphere where God has placed me on levels that include arguing with idiots, challenging corrupt politicians, and calling on believers to get serious with God. I aspire to intimacy with God and power- in that order! I believe I am commanded to fight- but not to win, that's the Father's purview.

My children and grandchildren will not enjoy the blessing of liberty as I have. Nor will yours. Let us teach them to be as Daniel- ready to serve the Lord Jesus in whatsoever circumstances they- and we- find ourselves!

sermonindex Dec 4, 2011

"He is overseeing the utter destruction of every strength America yet possesses, and will do all the harm possible in the short time he resides as President."

And who installed this President?

God did!

This is what America was looking for, for years they refused wise council and God is letting them have their desires. They think that by getting rid of the name of Jesus Christ out of their coast that they will begin to live in bliss. But there is calamity waiting around the corner.

God said that He would choose their delusions (I am speaking of any nation that rejects God).

Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

It is God who establishes kingdoms and places men in power and causes them to advance to where they are today to shape His world, to move pawns on a chess board. He has Pope, King, President, and Emirs all where they should be in His world because He knows what pleases Him, He knows what will glorify His name. Nothing is by chance, nothing is by happenstance.

One of the things that kept Israel and Judah in sin was the fact that the kings wouldn't remove the High Places of worship, they "did that which was right" but they refused to remove the problem that was hindering their full prosperity in God. Today we don't have High Places where people go to a mountain to offer up incense, but we have our own High Place called Pride,, which refuses to acknowledge that God is the God and that He is a God that is to be feared and loved.

Even among the Church we have this Pride that is sickening, people go to their high place and nurture their doctrine, their teachings and their way of life.

President Obama is not the real problem, it's what the United States has been desiring for. It started many years ago, and it's a continual progress of the rejection of God.

President Obama entered into this "kingdom" of the United States through flattery,, he flattered the Church that he is a Christian. Christians flocked to the voting booth to vote for him. He woo'd them and sounded like a preacher of the gospel. To them he was their saviour for America.

God gave them their request and sent leanness to the soul of America.

America was a city of refuge for the persecuted around the world, now it's becoming a den of thieves. God is grooming another nation or nations that will be a place of refuge for the persecuted.

Daniel 4:32 ........ until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever He will.


sermonindex Dec 4, 2011

Have we forgotten what Jesus said? When Pilot asked him if he was a king what did Jesus reply? His answer was "My kingdom is not of this world". Have we forgotten where Paul said our citizenship was? He said our citizenship was in heaven. Have we forgotten our mission, our mandate? Jesus called us to preach the gospel and make disciples.

So what if Obama is elected for another term. Does that change what God has called us to do. You bellyache about where the man stands politically and what he is doing to the country. Does anyone pray for his soul? Does anyone pray he will find Christ? At least he makes no pretense where his loyalties lie. So pray for his salvation.

Saints Obama is not the deception. The deception comes from the George Bushes, Mike Hickabees, Sara Palins, Michelle Bachmans, Ron Psuls, etc. These are the people who throw enough God ,Bible, and the American flag to decieve the elect. I believe Glen Beck has decieved enough Christians. I did not know until a year ago the man was a Mormon. Is anybody in this forum hearing this? GLEN BECK IS A MORMON!!!

Saints look if Satan is going to decieve the elect, what would he do? The devil is not going to be obvious as with Obama. Chances are he will raise up someone who claims to be born again and wave the Bible in one hand and the American flag in the other hand. And how the church will be utterly decieved and ensnared.

I have seen what 8 years of a so called born again president brought is. And this was when the elephants were in control.

Ravenhill is right that the church may see revival in the concentration camps. Revival is happening in China and Iran. These countries are anything but friendly to the gospel. Soon those nations such as Tunisia and Egypt will realize the futility of the Arab spring. They will grieve when Sharia is implimented. Lybia has already said it will embrace Islam.

The psalmist said better to trust in the Lord than in princes. The only true hope is Jesus Christ. Revelations tells us Jesus rules over the kings of the earth. For his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom.

Blaine Scogin

sermonindex Dec 4, 2011

dear brother Earl, that was a good post. the replies were revealing as well.

i just got out of an active consideration of the Book of Job, and i do believe it will be of real profit to go thru It again...reason i brought that up is, the 42nd chapter of Job, his confession and repentance.

to say this dear man got broken, would be an understatement, to say that his three well meaning, yet confused friends, heaped salt in his wounds, again would be an understatement....and these three men were "orthodox" in their "theology", but when the LORD speaks in the latter chapters we reach a Mighty Crescendo of Truth.....He is God, and we are not.

its easy to raise holy hands when the larder is full, its easy to praise or condemn another man...whoever....when all we are, is but blades of grass. i am more FIRMLY CONVINCED in my soul, as led by God the Holy Ghost, that there is nothing OF this world, or IN this world, that should entice us to look away from Messiah.

in fact, as the Spirit leads, that's why its is sometimes God's Mercy that causes us to be crushed and broken, because its in that brokeness, we can DO NOTHING BUT, keep our eyes and our hearts riveted on Jesus.......and not all this scripted worldly foolishness that passes off as "politics", or "culture", or "news"....as Solomon, in HIS brokeness, looking back, said 'there's nothing new under the sun'...forgive my paraphrase.

Saints, you're in babylon...thats where you are living....PHYSICALLY. my prayer, for myself, because i can only be accountable to myself, is that i break free from the yoke of babylon, and draw near to the Kingdom of God.

i'm praying that now. Didnt God say, draw near to Me, and I will draw near to you?...and God NEVER lies! NEVER!

if you get a chance, when you are all in the Gospel Accounts, anytime you read the Terms, "Kingdom of God" or "Kingdom of Heaven", look at What happens right before or right after, you read of that Glorious Kingdom....thats where we aim our hearts, souls and mind at.....not this stubblish junk peddled in the ether by the god of this age.

its all anti-christ, and not even worthy of our consideration. whats the worst anybody could do to us?

kill us? Glory to God!!!! Paul got that in the letter he wrote to the Church at Phillipi, while in a roman(babylon) jail....beautiful passage:

"for I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance, as it is my eager expectation and hope that I will not be at all ashamed, but that with full courage now as always Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account. Convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all, for your progress and joy in the faith, so that in me you may have ample cause to glory in Christ Jesus, because of my coming to you again".

Philippians 1:19-26 (ESV)

indeed, God is the Same, Yesterday, Today, Forever, therefore the same Spirit, That guided Paul, is leading us, which means, i KNOW that are more "Pauls"...or "Peters"...or "Annas(Luke)...or "Jeremiahs" out there today, maybe hidden or anonymous....there ARE those out there who have not kneeled to baal, more than "7,000"...search your hearts...it might just be we got to get broken , and broken REAL BAD...i say to myself, ALL THE TIME, "its time to get real with God, no more games!"...thats what i say to Him, to myself, thats my prayer, "time to get real with God"........what did Jesus say when He saw Nathanael?

"Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward him and said of him, "Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!" John 1:47

i cannot even begin to tell you in human words, what this Heavenly Greeting from Messiah means to me in my heart...think about it, can you imagine Jesus greeting YOU as so?...."in whom there is no deceit".....

Bless God for His Abundant Holy Spirit! neil

P
PaulWest Dec 4, 2011

Thread title has been slightly edited.

S
Sidewalk Dec 4, 2011

You are probably right, Paul- but methinks the original title of the thread caught more attention!

Gotta love a spirited discussion where angels fear to tread!

C
Christinyou Dec 4, 2011

Me too Tom. Pollitically correct? Flat tire.

In Christ: Phillip

Edit: Obamas name should be Ishmael and I pray for him always.

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