BSBKJVWEBYLTASVBBEWMBT4TDBY|HymnsMusicDonate
Menu
Devotional

Excerpts from the autobiography of Madam Guyon.

U
UntoBabes Dec 19, 2011

While in Paris, I relaxed and did many things which I should not. I knew the extreme fondness which some had for me, and suffered them to express it without checking it as I ought. I fell into other faults too, as having my neck a little too bare, though not near so much as others had. I plainly saw I was too remiss; and that was my torment. I sought all about for Him who had secretly inflamed my heart. But, alas! hardly anybody knew Him. I cried, “Oh, Thou best beloved of my soul, hadst Thou been near me these disasters had not befallen me.” When I say that I spoke thus to Him, it is but to explain myself. In reality, it all passed almost in silence, for I could not speak. My heart had a language which was carried on without the sound of words, understood of Him, as He understands the language of the Word, which speaks incessantly in the innermost recesses of the soul. Oh, sacred language! Experience only gives the comprehension of it! Let not any think it a barren language, and effect of the mere imagination. Far different—it is the silent expression of the Word in the soul. As He never ceases to speak, so He never ceases to operate. If people once came to know the operations of the Lord, in souls wholly resigned to His guiding, it would fill them with reverential admiration and awe.

I saw that the purity of my state was like to be sullied by too great a commerce with the creatures, so I made haste to finish what detained me in Paris, in order to return to the country. “Tis true, O my Lord, I felt that Thou hadst given me strength enough to avoid the occasions of evil—but when I had so far yielded as to get into them, I found I could not resist the vain complaisances, and a number of other foibles which they ensnared me into.” The pain which I felt after my faults was inexpressible. It was not an anguish that arose from any distinct idea or conception, from any particular motive or affection—but a kind of devouring fire which ceased not, till the fault was consumed and the soul purified. It was a banishment of my soul from the presence of its Beloved. I could have no access to Him, neither could I have any rest out of Him. I knew not what to do. I was like the dove out of the ark, which finding no rest for the soul of her foot, was constrained to return to the ark; but, finding the window shut, could only fly about. In the meantime, through an infidelity which will ever render me culpable, I strove to find some satisfaction without, but could not. This served to convince me of my folly and of the vanity of those pleasures which are called innocent. When I was prevailed on to taste them, I felt a strong repulse which, joined with my remorse for the transgression, changed the diversion into torment. “Oh, my Father,” said I, “this is not Thee; and nothing else, beside Thee, can give solid pleasure.”

One day, as much through unfaithfulness as complaisance, I went to take a walk at some of the public parks, rather from excess of vanity to show myself than to take the pleasure of the place. Oh, my Lord! how didst Thou make me sensible of this fault? But far from punishing me in letting me partake of the amusement, Thou didst it in holding me so close to Thyself, that I could give no attention to anything but my fault and Thy displeasure. After this I was invited with some other ladies to an entertainment at St. Cloud. Through vanity and weak compliance, I yielded and went. The affair was magnificent; they, though wise in the eye of the world, could relish it. I was filled with bitterness. I could eat nothing, I could enjoy nothing. Oh, what tears! For beyond three months my Beloved withdrew His favoring presence, and I could see nothing but an angry God.

I was on this occasion, and in another journey which I took with my husband into Touraine, like those animals destined for slaughter. On certain days people adorn them with greens and flowers, and bring in pomp into the city before they kill them. This weak beauty, on the eve of decline, shone forth with new brightness, in order to become the sooner extinct. I was shortly after afflicted with the smallpox.

One day as I walked to church, followed by a footman I was met by a poor man. I went to give him alms; he thanked me but refused them and then spoke to me in a wonderful manner of God and of divine things. He displayed to me my whole heart, my love to God, my charity, my too great fondness for my beauty and all my faults; he told me it was not enough to avoid Hell, but that the Lord required of me the utmost purity and height of perfection. My heart assented to his reproofs. I heard him with silence and respect, his words penetrated my very soul. When I arrived at the church I fainted away. I have never seen the man since.


N
narrowpath Dec 19, 2011

I once started to read her book experiencing the depth of Jesus Christ and I can only warn of Madame Guyon. I could not finish it, because it is full of new age thinking and she talks too much of her humility and brokeness. She propagates contemplative prayer as it is practised by catholics and the emergent church.

I know this sounds harsh and we had threads about it before. I may get blasted to bits for this but I do not want to win an argument but my concern is for unsuspecting Christian to be lead astray. I had been led astray by false teaching and I have been backslidded for at least 15 year.

Col 2: 18
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21(Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.


sermonindex Dec 19, 2011

I believe there is a lot in Guyon's writings that should be avoided, and probably not posted on this forum.

Krispy

sermonindex Dec 19, 2011

I once started to read her book experiencing the depth of Jesus Christ and I can only warn of Madame Guyon. I could not finish it, because it is full of new age thinking and she talks too much of her humility and brokeness. She propagates contemplative prayer as it is practised by catholics and the emergent church.

Brother, I agree there are some things in Guyon's writings that are not clear and can be interpreted or taken wrongly. Her life speaks for herself of one that followed Jesus Christ in great persecution. Her writings were used and reprinted by John Wesley, Watchman Nee and many others.

I do agree some parts of it maybe don't need to be emphasized or in circulation but surely there is good to be gleamed from them.

sermonindex Dec 19, 2011

Mel Gibson borrowed from Guyon's writings when crafting the script for "The Passion". This is part of where some of the strange unBiblical things in the movie came from.

I don't want to argue about this at all but I wanted to correct your statement brother, Guyon was never referenced by Mel Gibson. It was: ANNE CATHERINE EMMERICH

the work is here below.

THE DOLOROUS (SORROWFUL) PASSION OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST
FROM THE MEDITATIONS OF ANNE CATHERINE EMMERICH
http://www.jesus-passion.com/DOLOROUS_PASSION_OF_OUR_LORD_JESUS_CHRIST.htm

sermonindex Dec 19, 2011

You're right, brother. My mistake. I got the names mixed up. Around the same time I was reading about Emmerich I had also found a lot of info on Guyon... and I got them confused. I will ammend my previous post.

Sorry for the confusion.

Krispy

R
roadsign Dec 19, 2011

She propagates contemplative prayer as it is practised by catholics and the emergent church.

I suspect it would have been helpful to first read her autobiography – to know where she was coming from. I read it, and believe me, her spiritual story is nothing like mainstream Catholicism and today’s emergent movement - or New Age. Just because these movements seem to adopt some of her methods does not mean they are to be equated. Likewise, we don’t distance ourselves from the Bible because of those who merely adopt a few methods from it.

Hopefully a modern translation of her autobiography will come out soon. Reading the early 19th century English is tedious. True, we can read other people’s writings about her – but I believe nothing can compare to reading her own words. Every biographer is going to put some of their own slant into her work, or miss the full impact. Her life story is utterly amazing – especially the depth of her suffering, and the resulting depth of her faith.

PS I am about to read Guyon’s “Experiencing the Depths of Jesus Christ” – and am curious to see why so many heroes of the faith have been touched by her: Wesley, Zinzendorf, Hudson Taylor, and many others.

Diane


N
narrowpath Dec 19, 2011

From her book "A short and easy method of prayer"

I have mentioned that our direct and principal exercise should consist in the contemplation of the Divine Presence: we should be also exceedingly watchful and diligent in recalling our dissipated senses, as the most easy method of overcoming distractions; for a direct contest and opposition only serves to irritate and augment them; whereas, by sinking down under a sense and perception of a present God, and by simply turning inwards, we wage insensibly a very advantageous, though indirect war with them.

For prayer we look up outside ourselves, not inward.
God is not a "subconscious level" we sink down to. God is a person.

Further in her book she writes

"In speaking of the attainment of perfection, the word Facility is used, because God is indeed found with facility when we seek Him within ourselves."

In her theology she calls everyone including the unconverted to contemplative prayer.

now to the 2nd level, smells almost like freemasonery

"The Second Degree of Prayer
Some call the second degree of prayer, “The Prayer of Contemplation,” “The Prayer of Faith and Stillness,” and others call it, “The Prayer of Simplicity.” I shall here use this latter appellation, as being more just than any of the former, which imply a much more exalted state of prayer than that I am now treating of."

Hello, Hello, huhu, wake up, do not be hypnotized!

God never asks a man to bypass their mind. Never. He always involves man mind, feelings, and will in his interaction with him. He may speak to us in by revelation through is word, yes we may even have an experience as Peter in a trance or Paul. These experiences were never induced by following a method other than by simple communication with God. Prayer is talking to God along his own word, nothing mystic about it. Prayer is a means to meet with God, not a self-deifying mystical practice.

The prophets of Baal induced a trance by dancing around the altar and afflicting themselves. They thought that the more they did to themself the more God (actually Baal) would be obliged to listen. This is the essence of paganism. Elijah prepared and offering and simply waited for God to show up. He obviously did not follow Madam Guyon's book.

Neither did Daniel not David in his prayers.

Sorry, I cannot glean anything from that.

sermonindex Dec 19, 2011

Sorry, I cannot glean anything from that.

I agree. I have never liked the saying "chew the meat and spit out the bones." Too many people chew the meat and choke on the bones.

Of course we are not going to find ourselves in 100% agreement with anyone, but when someone comes from a completely different belief system (in this case Catholicism... i.e. works salvation) there really isnt anything that we can "glean".

Krispy

N
narrowpath Dec 19, 2011

Hi Krispy, I think it was you who once said, would you glean oats from horse dung?

sermonindex Dec 19, 2011

I dont remember, but it sounds like something I would say... lol

I can just about garuntee that you can find a good slice of bread in the dumpster behind any given restaraunt. Question is: Why burrow thru all the trash and rotten food to get to it?

Krispy

S
Solomon101 Dec 19, 2011

Guyon believed that one should pray all the time, and that in whatever one does, one should be spending time with God.

"Prayer is the key of perfection and of sovereign happiness; it is the efficacious means of getting rid of all vices and of acquiring all virtues; for the way to become perfect is to live in the presence of God. He tells us this Himself: "walk before me, and be thou perfect" Genesis 17:1. Prayer alone can bring you into His presence, and keep you there continually."
From The Short and Easy Method of Prayer

As for eating the fish and spitting the bones....unless you believe you, and you alone, are the one with absolute perfection and all truth then you must do so. Of course most folks believe they are the ones with the most keen ability to determine what is fish and what is bone. Woe unto the one who does not agree with their assesment... regardless of whether their judgement is actually true or not. If they believe it is a bone they will fight to the bitter end for the "principal" of guarding the sheep... when in actuality it is nothing but pride.

The wise judge themselves lest they be judged. The even wiser ask for the judgments of the Lord knowing they can not judge even themselves accurately

If we were as anywhere near spiritually mature as we profess to be then there would be much less judgment on the writings of others... a LOT more introspective quietness knowing that we will one day give account to God for EVERY idle word. Maybe..just maybe... someone might just by some possibility have gleaned a truth from God that we are unfamiliar with... and in fact even adverse to because of our prejudices. However, if we walk in this continual pride we will ever be blind to growing beyond the limitations we are now under.

L
Lysa Dec 19, 2011

Solomon101 wrote:
The wise judge themselves lest they be judged. The even wiser ask for the judgments of the Lord knowing they can not judge even themselves accurately

Amen brother.

Solomon101 wrote:
If we were as anywhere near spiritually mature as we profess to be then there would be much less judgment on the writings of others... a LOT more introspective quietness knowing that we will one day give account to God for EVERY idle word.

Thank you for the wisdom of these words.

God bless,
Lisa

P
PaulWest Dec 20, 2011

I own the book "Experiencing the Depths of Jesus Christ", which was systematically burned in France by the ecclesiastical authorities and its author, Jean Guyon, imprisoned. It is remarkably simple and straightforward and bespeaks of an intimacy with Christ I can only dream of. Perhaps this is why Satan hated it so. There is much to glean from the book's simplicity, as the author constantly points to a childlike worship and trust in the Living God who dwells within the believer, and not in some extraneous, invisible vacuum of space above the stratosphere. Because of this, many evangelicals have unfairly dismissed the writings of Guyon and Brother Lawrence and Fenlon as heretical mystics, and though I own both the autobiography of Guyon and the book already mentioned, I have not found any glaring heresy - other than the teachings of the religious system she affiliated herself with, who, ironically was bent on silencing her.

sermonindex Dec 20, 2011

Amen Paul. I have read most of her books. We had this kind of thread last year and it was very nasty with the main protaganist accusing Guyon of being demonic, very sad. I could only wish that I would write something that the Catholic church would want to burn and then imprison me ( an ex-Catholic) ..............brother Frank

P
PaulWest Dec 20, 2011

Amen Frank. I am an ex-Roman Catholic myself. You know you're in touch with God when the RCC burns your writings and throws you in prison. Another extremely interesting character was Girolamo Savanarola, a 15th century Dominican friar who began preaching against the corruption of the RCC clergy, and whose street ministry sparked a pre-reformation awakening of righteousness and Holy Spirit conviction. He pre-dated Luther. The RCC burnt him at the stake in 1498 when it could take no more. He was an amazing character. It seems he was sort of an early Roman Catholic version of George Whitefield.

I think I recall Ravenhill referencing him somewhere in "Why Revival Tarries".

R
roadsign Dec 20, 2011

Krispy and Narrowpath, If I were to make a hunch based on what you say, I’d hunch that neither of you have read Guyon’s autobiography! Am I hunching right?

It's just that it seems you are assessing her based on something completely apart from her - what you identify her with.

Diane

sermonindex Dec 20, 2011


Amen Paul. "I have read most of her books. We had this kind of thread last year and it was very nasty with the main protagonist accusing Guyon of being demonic, very sad. I could only wish that I would write something that the Catholic church would want to burn and then imprison me ( an ex-Catholic) ..............brother Frank.

Frank: Write something so super-Catholic that may cause the Cardinal's to lose control; that's exactly what Guyon did...[ If you want the RCC raging at you.

I, of course was, am am, the "main protagonist" on that past thread. Guyon was not persecuted for the
Gospel, nor imprisoned for her views about orthodox, Christian protestant doctrine. She was a major adversary of the reformation, and thought the church was too soft on the movement. She remained a Maryist to her death.

Her greatest sin, along with Fenelon, was being a "Super-Catholic", engaging in the hyper-mystical wing of the Church; a champion of "Quietism". the Church confronted her, and gave her and Fenelon every opportunity to repent, and Fenelon did; she did not. She was then imprisoned.

This mystic cult adapted mutism as a path to spirituality, and Guyon claimed telepathic , among other, results from this lifestyle.

In the end, the Catholic Churches control on business, and industry, could not allow such an idea to persist, as it is clear two things; Control over the cloisters would be lost, as they immersed themselves deeper and deeper into these odd super-spiritual practices; and business would suffer, if this yoga-like [ Bhuddistic?] practice caught on with the public. They tried and convicted her because of these trespasses, not a Gospel message.

If you have indeed read her auto-biography, I'm sure you have seen her testimony of when she was born again. "I found the Christ that had always been within!"

If , therefore, she was born again, and I believe she was, surely it was from a Babylonian Spirit, not the Holy one...for Jesus states that you must be born again "FROM ABOVE"...she says she wasn't.

She honey-ied up her experience in flowery Christianise, Catholic Christianise, no less......and relayed Nirvana type mysticism as a deeper life.

Read her trial, and her experiences yourself. She was never saved, and has led many astray....Sorry. Look at the facts , and read the minutes of her trial. Not a Christian believer. That's why she is called a mystic...not a Gospel woman.

sermonindex Dec 20, 2011

Diane, I have not read her autobiography but have read some of her stuff and things about her. Enough to know that I am not interested in "gleaning" anything theological from her.

Krispy

R
roadsign Dec 20, 2011

Enough to know that I am not interested in "gleaning" anything theological from her.

It’s fascinating how different people glean different things. I admit, I had no idea what to expect when I launched into her story. But what I did see was evidence of fruit of the Spirit. She knew the God of scripture, although she did not have the evangelical lingo that has developed since her time. I could she that was not a theologian, like Luther. Her ideas arose out of her own experiences with man and God – over the course of time. She sounds like a Hebrews 12 testimony. She understandably concluded that suffering (yet not acetism) was a way to know God intimately. I am tempted to challenge that view, yet I wonder how our Christians today would fair under the same kind of suffering she endured. Would they come out as humble and submissive in nature? Would they persist in loving God when life turns against them?

Mind you, I think Luther could have benefited from her story. That may have kept him from getting crusty in his later years – even to condoning the massacre of many Jews (which makes him a devil to many). By the same token, I think the evangelical wing would do well to take a humble approach towards her. Some of their own blind spots are her very strengths – even as the reverse may be true.

In my own church background, one’s spiritual authenticity is highly associated with consent to certain propositional truths. Guyon did not have all those propositional truths lined up as we have today. But, still it seems to be a significant leap to read her as a devil from Babylon – by extracting various statements!

Guyon is a reminder that even in the midst of pervasive religious oppression and ignorance, God can touch down on a life and carry it through some of the worst hostilities imaginable. I was deeply encouraged in spirit by her story - something I did not expect. God is "increased" and I am "decreased".

Diane


This discussion is locked.

Archived
1 of 57 posts