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Theology

What is True Obedience?

sermonindex Dec 19, 2011

What is True Obedience?

God demands perfect, total and absolute continual obedience.

We will see just how this required obedience is possible for you to truly experience and enjoy.

Many people really think that they can obey God.

Look what God's people said.

Deut 5:27, "Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear it, and do it."

They believed that they could and would do what God said.

We know for a fact that they did not and they broke the Covenant of God.

Jer. 31:32, "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:"

They found out in their own experience that they could never obey Him at all. No mater how dedicated, responsible, zealous or serious they were, they found out that they always fell short. God knew the whole time that could never obey but thought that they had to find this truth out for themselves. They needed to see that their faithfulness or any true obedience was totally impossible.

We all need to truly understand that it is totally impossible for us to perform any required obedience. This knowledge is of vital importance because as long as there seems to be any hope for any person to think that he can somehow obey, be faithful, or even capable of trusting we will continue to put forth efforts in the attempt to obey.

All the commands were given to show mankind that they could NOT keep them and that they were not even able to keep the even for second. You need to know that no command, demand, rule, law, principle, ought or should could ever make holy, perfect righteousness or give you life.

The main purpose of all these commands that demanded perfect and continual love, perfection, obedience and faithfulness were given to show forever the mankind's impossibility to ever keep them. The truth is God never intended you to keep these at all.

God was not surprised when Adam and Eve sinned. He knew that they would sin so he had already prepared the only solution possible. The bible makes in clear that Jesus Christ was the Lamb of God that was slain before the foundation of the world.

Even before any sin took place God had already solved the solution for sin and mankind condition. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit made a Covenant together which is an irrevocable commitment which CAN NOT be broken under any circumstance. This Covenant was made between God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ before the world was created. You did not and could not have any part of it.

This Covenant was not made make with mankind. We are just the recipients and participants of this Covenant. We really have no part to keep other than to just enjoy what He has already accomplished for us and in us. There is no other way possible! God has provided the only solution once and for all. Any attempt you make to fix the unfixable is not only sin but is totally impossible.

Now the truth of the Gospel message is that God has already provided the only solution possible for sin and mankind's condition once and for all. God Himself has placed you in Christ before the world was created. He did everything necessary for your total and complete salvation.

The Holy Spirit will show you what God has already accomplished for and in you. There is absolutely nothing left out or lacking. God has done it all. There is nothing left that can ever be done. He has not only done all that ever could be done in you and for you. God, Himself has even taken the responsibility of your obedience to Him forever by keeping you in His love.

You did not have any part in it at all. You did not even have a choice about it. This was all of God's doing and there is really nothing you can do about it. He has done it for you. You are in Christ so you might as well accept it, participate fully in it and enjoy all that God has already done in you and for you.

There is ONLY one man's righteousness that is acceptable to God and that is Christ's righteousness!
There is ONLY one man's love that is acceptable to God and that is Christ's love!
There is ONLY one man's faith that is acceptable to God and that is Christ's faith!
There is ONLY one man's obedience that is acceptable to God and that is Christ's obedience!

God knew that sin had totally corrupted mankind's condition forever and that this corruption was so thorough, and complete that there was no possible for any person to ever be acceptable to God. God knew that sin had made all of mankind totally unable for ever be faithful or even be trustworthy at all. Sin made all of mankind complexly vile, perverted, evil, twisted, wicked, unfaithful, without strength, and totally rotten to your very core.

There was only one possible solution for this and that was for Christ to come to earth as a human man to become the last Adam. Christ lived a perfect and holy life in perfect union with God His Father. He came to undo everything that Adam had done and solved the problem of sin once at for all.

Look and see what God has already done in Christ. Christ took that old completely corrupt nature and totally crucified it on the Cross with Him. It is completely dead and buried with Him. Christ has raised us up with Him and then given us His very own Divine Life.

The Good news of the Gospel is that Christ crucified you with Him and you were buried with Him. When you were born again, you just experienced the reality of what God had already accomplished for you. You began to realize that the old you died and now instead, you have Christ's Life.

You were made one with Him by an irrevocable act of God that made you in perfect union with Him. You have been made one with God. We are truly one with Him and we can experience His Divine continual presence and power. He has taken away our old stony heart and has now given us His heart. We now have a heart of flesh, a tender, living, loving heart.

We now have His Life within us. It is by His Almighty Power and Love, breathing and working in us, that He makes the promise true, "I will cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments." We now have a heart in perfect harmony with Him, a life and walk in His way - God is engaged in Covenant to work in us. HE UNDERTAKES FOR OUR PART IN THE COVENANT AS MUCH AS FOR HIS OWN.

God in Christ has given all of mankind Christ's obedience. So we now have His faith, love righteousness and faithfulness.

The only true obedience possible that any person can possibly enjoy and experience is His and His alone.

When you hear this message of the gospel of what God has already done in you and for you, the Holy Spirit beings to open your eyes to this existing reality.

Romans 1:16, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

This message of the Gospel of the finished work of God in Christ is the only possible message that contains the power of God for total and complete salvation for mankind. No other message contains the power of God to bring about perfect and continual obedience.

As you recognize and realize HIS FINISHED WORK you will experience God's gift of repentance giving you the ability to trust and embrace His obedience causing you to turn away for your unbelief and your own dead works. Now this is the ONLY obedience possible.

sermonindex Dec 20, 2011

All the commands were given to show us that we could NOT keep them and that we were not even able to keep them even for second. God's intent and propose for giving them was to strip us of all independence, He knew that we could never live by them and He NEVER intended for us to keep them. You need to know that no command, demand, rule, law, principle, ought or should could ever make holy, perfect righteousness or give you life.

The real truth is that these demands and requirements have been and are now totally satisfied by our perfect union with God that God in Christ has already accomplished for us. The only reason we are or will be obedient is that Christ’s Life within satisfy all of these command for us. We

We now have His Life within us. It is by His Almighty Power and Love, breathing and working in us, that He makes our obedience real and true.

It is God who said "I will cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments."

As a result of what God in Christ has already accomplishes we now have a heart in perfect harmony with Him. We have His Life and walk in His way. God is engaged in Covenant to work in us. HE UNDERTAKES FOR OUR PART IN THE COVENANT AS MUCH AS FOR HIS OWN.

L
Lysa Dec 20, 2011

tuc wrote:
What is True Obedience?

All the commands were given to show us that we could NOT keep them and that we were not even able to keep them even for second. He knew that we could never live by them and He NEVER intended for us to keep them.


In Luke 18, the rich young ruler declared that he had kept them all from his youth up and Jesus did not argue with him and say, “well God made them b/c he knew no one could keep them, so you’re lying.”

I believe the young ruler had indeed kept the commandments of God and so did Jesus who struck at a deeper matter - his love of money (which the Law doesn’t cover) and the rich young ruler went away sorrowful.

God bless,
Lisa

sermonindex Dec 20, 2011

Lysa wrote: I believe the young ruler had indeed kept the commandments of God and so did Jesus who struck at a deeper matter - his love of money (which the Law doesn’t cover)

Excessive love of money is covered in the "Law" under lusting, coveting and even Idolatry when you start reverencing your wealth more than the Creator.

S
Sree Dec 20, 2011


Excessive love of money is covered in the "Law" under lusting, coveting and even Idolatry when you start reverencing your wealth more than the Creator.

Sister Lysa is correct, Love of Money is not a law, it is spirit of Law. Except do not Covert, all other laws are external. So only covert is spiritual. The rich young ruler did not covert for any other's money. So he did not covert. Old testament people did not understand the spirit of Law, Jesus came to show us the spirit of Law. If you understand the spirit of Law and keep them with the power of Holy Spirit you can live a Godly life without falling the actual Physical law.

S
Sree Dec 20, 2011

I only have one response to this post.
Matthew 18:6-
but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Such teaching will only cause people to stumble. No way it will benefit believers. These posters are like Doctors, who tell their patients that they are alright though internally the patients are dying with Cancer. Though they think they are helping these patients mentally, they are actually killing them instead of treating them. I am sad that Sermon Index is becoming host for such doctors.

L
Lysa Dec 20, 2011

theEphah wrote:
Excessive love of money is covered in the "Law" under lusting, coveting and even Idolatry when you start reverencing your wealth more than the Creator.

I don’t mean to be argumentative but I must ask, “Where are these verses?” (I used the Online Bible program and I typed in ‘lust’ and found no entries in the first five books concerning the love of money. And there are no entries for ‘covet’ and money in the first five also. There is only one entry for ‘idolatry’ in the OT and that is 1 Sam 15.23. I could not find any entries for ‘idol’ and money either.)

I was just trying to show (and I believe that scripture bears me out), that there is no commandment that specifically addresses the love of money. It was Jesus who revealed the content of our hearts about the love of money.

Anyway, my point in my first reply was not about the love of money itself but that the rich young ruler told the Son of God that he had kept all the commandments from his youth up and Christ did not call him out on one commandment that he had broken. I believe logically that Jesus’ silence reveals that the rich young ruler in fact did keep all the commandments.

God bless,
Lisa

L
Lysa Dec 20, 2011

Sree wrote:
Love of Money is not a law, it is spirit of Law. Except do not Covet, all other laws are external. So only covet is spiritual. The rich young ruler did not covet for any other's money. So he did not covet. Old testament people did not understand the spirit of Law, Jesus came to show us the spirit of Law. If you understand the spirit of Law and keep them with the power of Holy Spirit you can live a Godly life without falling the actual Physical law.

Well said and thank you for the further explanation!

God bless,
Lisa

sermonindex Dec 20, 2011

The rich young ruler only thought that he obeyed the commandments. Jesus only pointed out the that he did not really loved the God with all his heart, soul and might. This ruler loved money more then God and broken the commandments.

Do not forget what Christ said about a rich man being saved

Luke 18:24, "And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved? And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God."

Our salvation was impossible for us but God did what we could not do and saved us.

A
ArtB Dec 25, 2011

Tuc wrote: "Our salvation was impossible for us but God did what we could not do and saved us."

Tuc, I read your posts this thread, your spiritual eyes are wide open, thanks for sharing these all important works of God, His gifts to us who believe Him, and accepted His words and deeds on our behalf.

sermonindex Dec 25, 2011

tuc

All the commands were given to show us that we could NOT keep them and that we were not even able to keep them even for second.

I beg to differ. There is no where in the holy scriptures that indicates that we could not keep the commandments, no where! Our savior himself said to keep them.

Now concerning the young ruler, he was not lying about keeping the commandments, but the Messiah said to him "you are lacking one thing"

Now continue reading Luke 18:28-29 to get the full message of what the Savior was trying to say.

This piece of scripture is not implying that we shouldn't keep the commandments nor is it implying that we can't.

A
ArtB Dec 27, 2011

Sree and Lysa,

If the young rich man did not sin, why did he walk away saddened? He knew Jesus revealed his sin, and made him aware of it.

The Sin he committed was idolatry. The Young rich man loved his money more than God, he believed Jesus to be from God and represented God, but he loved his money more than God. Had Jesus asked for half of his money, The Rich man may have well given it to Jesus, but all of it he could not bring himself to do, for he loved the good life money afforded him.

The Rich young man was a very decent person. Jesus liked him. But Jesus condemned him under the Mosaic Laws, which no man except Jesus was ever capable of keeping the entire Mosaic Law. No one could be saved under the Mosaic Law, except Jesus, who kept the entire Mosaic Law until death on the cross, and having fulfilled the entire Law, Jesus took upon Himself the punishments that we deserved for breaking that Law. He fulfilled the entire Law, and that made him the perfect Lamb of God whose sufferings and death on the cross takes away all sins of all who believe in Him and accept His atoning blood as having wash away their sins for all time, and this is God's gift to us, that through His only begotten Son, we now have eternal life, and the life abundant.

But I should add that this Young rich man was indeed an exceptional good man with a good heart. When this young rich man walked away sad, note how the apostles reacted, they were stunned and downcast.

Matt 19:25-26

"When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?" 26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, " With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Then Peter said to Him, "Behold, we have left everything and followed You; what then will there be for us?"

And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life. But many who are first will be last; and the last, first. NASU

The first are the Jews, they will be last to be saved, and the gentiles will be saved first, as explained by Paul in Romans Chapter 11.

The point Jesus raised is that no one will be saved by keeping the Law of Moses, but that God is providing a different way for all to be saved.

Jesus never preached the gospel of the coming New Covenant, because to do so would have been a violation of the Mosaic Law, which would have made Jesus a sinner and disqualify Him as Messiah. In fact Jesus would eventually be accused by the Jewish leaders of preaching another Covenant other than the Mosaic Law, and Jesus denied this. Jesus hinted a few times of a New Covenant, but He did not reveal that plainly until after He fulfilled all of the Mosaic Law and was unjustly crucified, upon which God the Father terminated the Mosaic law upon Jesus death. Jesus explained the New Covenant clearly to His Apostles and others after His resurrection.

sermonindex Dec 28, 2011

ArtB --

The point Jesus raised is that no one will be saved by keeping the Law of Moses, but that God is providing a different way for all to be saved.

This is an incorrect statement. There is nowhere in the scriptures that makes such a claim.

Our Savior including his disciples taught the Law. That's why they were murdered, because they wouldn't teach the Talmud which is the written law conjured by the pharisees. See, the teachings of the Savior exposed their evil deeds, so they had to kill him.

Also note that the Messiah together with his disciples did not have the New Testament, all they had to go by was the old Testament.

Therefore, by saying that "no one will be saved by keeping the Law of Moses" you are actually discrediting all the Apostles and the prophets of old because all they knew and taught was the law.

E
Elibeth Dec 28, 2011

May I share just a little with you too ?

Jn. 1:17 says, 'For the law was given by Moses, but grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ.'

* The law was a written out,for one's to read it and try to do / obey it.
* That was the first covenant,...made by God through Moses.

Heb. 7:19 ,..For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a
BETTER HOPE did, by which we DRAW NEAR TO GOD.
Vs.22,By so much was Jesus made a surety of a BETTER TESTAMENT.

But what does Grace and Truth have to do with us ?
EVERYTHING !
Please bare with me,..and Please do consider, what Grace really is .

First,let us remember,..Jn. 1:14,..Jesus was full of Grace,( he did all of the
Father's will.He was just FULL of this Grace.

It is a precious gift ...but it is a enabling gift with power.
Remember, when how strong we were being drawn when the Lord was at the first drawing us to Him ? That was His Grace.

Grace is : The Devine inffluence upon the heart / and it's reflection in the life.
(1) The Devine inffluence upon the heart...( The powerful drawing of us to
God ,who is 'The Word',...Remember how He was bringing up our old flesh way,..trying to empty us out, in order to fill us up with His way.?Wanting us to die to our old way ,..to be born again of Him ? Born again of the Spirit of God.
He is SPIRIT/ WORD .
..to hear His voice and follow Him. ( that we be be Hearers of the Word)
To be hearers of God,..who is the Word.

(2) and it's reflection in the life,..'The doing of the Word in our life,...
So that we be not hearers only ,and not doers of the Word.

He wants us to hear in the Spirit,..having Spiritual ears,..as He talks to
us, He want us to follow Him,...' be led by the Spirit of God'....' For as many as are led by the Spirit of God,They are the son/ children of God.'

Now concerning the man that ask Jesus,what he had to do to inherit eternal life,..and he said he had kept all the commandments.
What I see, ......Jesus was showing this man, the new and Living Way ,
That whatever we are asked to do,...it is a command / ment...( He was asking this man to get rid of his money,...He may ask us different things.)
He is calling us to hear His voice and obey,whether it be in changing our flesh- way or directing us.
Mary, the mother of Jesus,( Jn.2:5) said,..and I believe it holds some
Signiffigints,.she said,'whatever He saith unto you,do it.'

I know it is long,
Bless these Words O'Lord,
Elizabeth

sermonindex Dec 28, 2011

Dear Elizabeth, thanks for sharing. May I add a comment if I may? Heb. 7:19 is referring to the Levitical priesthood which was dissolved because they did not uphold the Law. But the Messiah whom is a better promise because he is righteous (righteousness is the keeping of the law)

Also note verse17 -- For it is declared:
“You are a priest forever,in the order of Melchizedek.”

Why is the Messiah being compared to the mighty Priest Melchizedek? because Melchizedek was righteous. He obeyed and taught the Laws of Yahweh just as the savior did.

You see, Heb. 7:19 is not saying that the law is inferior, not at all, it is referring to the Levitical priesthood.

Last point, if you look at Heb. 7:19 at http://bible.cc/hebrews/7-19.htm

you will notice that the very first line (for the law made nothing perfect) it's in parenthesis, if you cross check this with the Interlinear, you will notice that the original Greek is written differently.

Hebrews 7:19 - Biblos Interlinear Bible -
nothing indeed perfected the law however of a better hope by which we draw near to God.

The translators rendered it differently and put it in parenthesis to let us know that's not what the original says.

Romans 2:13 Paul states - For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

A
ArtB Dec 28, 2011

by theEphah on 2011/12/27 18:05:25 wrote:

"ArtB --

The point Jesus raised is that no one will be saved by keeping the Law of Moses, but that God is providing a different way for all to be saved.

This is an incorrect statement. There is nowhere in the scriptures that makes such a claim."

Uhmm, How about:

Zec 11:7-14
7 So I pastured the flock doomed to slaughter, hence the afflicted of the flock.

And I took for myself two staffs: the one I called Favor and the other I called Union; so I pastured the flock. Then I annihilated the three shepherds in one month, for my soul was impatient with them, and their soul also was weary of me.

9 Then I said, "I will not pasture you. What is to die, let it die, and what is to be annihilated, let it be annihilated; and let those who are left eat one another's flesh."

10 I took my staff Favor and cut it in pieces, to break my covenant which I had made with all the peoples.

11 So it was broken on that day, and thus the afflicted of the flock who were watching me realized that it was the word of the LORD.

12 I said to them, "IF IT IS GOOD IN YOUR SIGHT, GIVE ME MY WAGES; BUT IF NOT, NEVER MIND." So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages.

13 Then the LORD said to me, "THROW IT TO THE POTTER, THAT AT WHICH I WAS VALUED BY THEM." So I took the THIRTY SHEKELS OF SILVER AND THREW THEM TO THE POTTER IN THE HOUSE OF THE LORD.

1st, there is only one covenant that God made with all his peoples: THE MOSAIC COVENANT. And there is ONLY ONE Historic Event that fits this prophecy, and it is the Crucifixion and death of Jesus Christ. Christ stated that the not one jot or tittle will depart from the Mosaic Law until all is fulfilled. All was fulfilled when Jesus, having kept the entire Mosaic Law, was crucified on the cross and at the moment of His death, God Cancelled His Mosaic Covenant with His people. BUT HE HAS NOT ABANDONED THEM. See Romans 11!

And,

Heb 5:1-10
For every high priest taken from among men is appointed on behalf of men in things pertaining to God, in order to offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins; he can deal gently with the ignorant and misguided, since he himself also is beset with weakness; and because of it he is obligated to offer sacrifices for sins, as for the people, so also for himself. And no one takes the honor to himself, but receives it when he is called by God, even as Aaron was.

5 So also Christ did not glorify Himself so as to become a high priest, but He who said to Him,

"YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU";

6 just as He says also in another passage,

"YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK."

7 In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, 10 being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

Heb 7:11-28
11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is attested of Him,

"YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER
ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK."

18 For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment [= The Mosaic Law] because of its WEAKNESS AND USELESSNESS (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. And inasmuch as it was not without an oath 21(for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him,

"THE LORD HAS SWORN
AND WILL NOT CHANGE HIS MIND,
'YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER'");

22 so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

23 The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing, but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently. Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, made perfect forever.

Heb 8:13

13 When He [GOD THE FATHER] said, " A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. NASU

So Ephah, from these scriptures and many more, it is true that God Annihilated The Mosaic Covenant, just prior to establishing the far better COVENANT OF JESUS CHRIST.

I do not live under both Covenants, I am only under the New Covenant of Jesus Christ.

Sin no longer has any power over me, Jesus has nailed all my sins, past - present - and future, on the cross, and His blood has washed them all away.

I do not need to worry about sin, think about sin, nor fear sin, because He WHO is in me is greater than he who is in the world, and He set me free from the Law of Sin and Death. I now live by faith with the confidence that He will accomplish His good will in me that I may have a new nature that will naturally conform to His good will, and that we who are His Children will bear good fruit abundantly. And this is God's will and purpose, and even if we fail from time to time - God will not fail us, His children, but will accomplish all He has planned for us from the very beginning.

I am dead to sin and to the Mosaic Law, and alive to Christ and the Laws of Christ.

Ro 6:8-11

8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

(All Scriptures are NASU)


E
Elibeth Dec 28, 2011

My dear brother theEphah,
Thank you,
I know the commandments are Holy.
That when the Lord begins to draw us,by His Spirit,.....( Grace)...the commandments,..... sin becomes exceedingly sinful to us.
And as we are coming to this drawing of His Grace,( This Devine enflluence drawing us, He is steady letting us know,that we must leave off baggage,....to be clothed upon with His Righteousness...to be emptied out of our old way,...to be clothed upon With Him,..who is the Word.,....the Holy Spirit ,...Word / Spirit.
He,through the Spirit,will never teach us or draw us to steal ,hate, kill
Etc,..etc...He will draw us away from those things. He will only draw us into things that are justice / just and righteousness .
But it is a Better way because He is bringing it up in us BY His Spirit,
with Power / help to do it.
We are desiring and learning together in Him,who loves us so much.
For His Name sake,
Elizabeth

S
Sree Dec 28, 2011


If the young rich man did not sin, why did he walk away saddened? He knew Jesus revealed his sin, and made him aware of it.

The Sin he committed was idolatry.

I never said he did not Sin. He had sin but not according to Law. The love of Money is Idolatry to us who live by Spirit. Jesus found it because he was born of the Spirit and was able to keep all the laws because he had the spirit of Law. If you were able to imagine a life that this Rich Young Ruler lived purly by law, without any understanding of Spirit. Then he did not sin. But was his life complete? Was it pleasing to God? If it was then he won't be coming to Jesus asking what should he do more as he knew that there is something he is still missing.


The point Jesus raised is that no one will be saved by keeping the Law of Moses, but that God is providing a different way for all to be saved.

No he did not raise that point. He said it is tough for people to be saved by the law of Moses. He said it is tough like getting a camel through eye of Needle. There were people who pleased God in OT, like Moses, Noah, Enoch etc. How did they do it? Don't tell me they did by faith, I agree it is faith, but faith in whom, Faith in God and keeping his laws in fear of him.

The point Jesus made by the Rich young ruler is, it is very difficult for a man to please God by keeping Laws, but God has made it possible by making us born of the Spirit (when we are born again), so that we can keep the law in Spirit like how Jesus kept it. Jesus is also born of the Spirit like us so if he can keep it then what prevents us?

Also Jesus preached about a New Testament life which including living by Spirit, Sermon on the Mount is a great example.

M
murrcolr Dec 28, 2011

Quote: As a result of what God in Christ has already accomplishes we now have a heart in perfect harmony with Him.

Come on thats a million miles away from the the truth...

The FACT, the great and terrible fact, that EVEN THE RIGHTEOUS HAVE IN THEM EVIL NATURES. Job said, "Behold, I am vile." He did not always know it. All through the long controversy he had declared himself to be just and upright: he had said, "My righteousness I will hold fast, and I will not let it go;" and notwithstanding he did scrape his body with a potsherd, and his friends did vex his mind with the most bitter revilings, yet he still held fast his integrity, and would not confess his sin; but when God came to plead with him, he had no sooner listened to the voice of God in the whirlwind, and heard the question, "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" than at once he put his finger on his lips, and would not answer God, but simply said, "Behold, I am vile."

Possibly some may say, that Job was an exception to the rule; and they will tell us, that other saints had not in them such a reason for humiliation; but we remind them of David, and we bid them read the 51st penitential Psalm, where we find him declaring that he was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did his mother conceive him; confessing, that he had sin within him. In many other places in the Psalms, David doth continually acknowledge and confess, that he is not perfectly rid of sin; that still the evil viper doth twist itself around his heart.

Turn also, if you please, to Isaiah. There you have him, in one of his visions, saying that he was a man of unclean lips, and that he dwelt among a people of unclean lips.

But more especially, under the gospel dispensation, you find Paul, in that memorable chapter we have been reading, declaring, that he found in "his members a law warring against the law of his mind, and bringing him into captivity to the law of sin." Yea, we hear that remarkable exclamation of struggling desire and intense agony, "O, wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"

Do you expect to find yourselves better saints than Job? do you imagine that the confession which befitted the mouth of David is too mean for you? are ye so proud, that ye will not exclaim with Isaiah, "I also am a man of unclean lips?" Or rather, have ye progressed so far in pride, that ye dare to exalt yourselves above the laborious Apostle Paul, and to hope that in you, that is, in your flesh, there dwelleth any good thing?

If ye do think yourselves to be perfectly pure from sin, hear ye the word of God: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we say we have no sin, we make God a liar."

C. H. Spurgeon

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0083.htm

A
ArtB Dec 28, 2011

In response to Elizabeth's post above on 2011/12/28 5:16

No one is saying that now that the Mosaic Law has been annihilated by God, that we are now lawless, therefore it is alright for us to steal from others, hate people, or commit murder.

Even though God annihilated the Mosaic Covenant in its' entirety, Clearly He did not leave us lawless, for through His only begotten SON - Jesus, we are now under a new set of laws of Jesus Christ. we are under a New set of Laws, which are:

1. The Royal Law of Love.
2. The Law of Liberty.
3. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

I have addressed these Laws of the New Covenant in a post above in this thread.

So I must ask, are we as Christians to keep all 613 laws of the Mosaic Covenant, or is it some subset of these laws we ought to keep?

I know for a fact that as long as I live, I will never stop sinning. How do I know this:

1 John 1:5-10
This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8. IF WE SAY THAT WE HAVE NO SIN, WE ARE DECEIVING OURSELVES AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10. IF WE SAY THAT WE HAVE NOT SINNED, WE MAKE HIM A LIAR AND HIS WORD IS NOT IN US. NASU

Versus 8 and 10 I highlighted in CAPS, and both indicate that as long as I live, I will sin. But I do confess my known sins to God knowing that He is faithful to forgive me, AND THAT HE WILL CLEANSE ME FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. I believe this because it is what John wrote He would do. I know that the blood of Jesus has washed away all my sins, past, present, and future. I am already saved, and sealed by the Holy Spirit, as a deposit on Jesus purchase of me, until He comes again to receive me into the Kingdom that God created at the same time as He made the Cosmos.

My 2nd question is even more to the point,

If I am capable of keeping the Mosaic Laws, why do I need Jesus to die on the cross for me? God never even want to give His people those laws, He wanted His people to follow Him by faith, to believe Him and Trust Him through all things, to live by FAITH and not by sight. When Moses read all these laws to the people, they all shouted 'These we will do." and then Moses anointed them with the sprinkling of blood so as to seal this bilateral covenant that they made with God, the Mosaic Covenant (i.e. contract). Then God took Moses aside and before any of them had a chance to break the Mosaic Covenant they made with God, God told Moses that they will never keep it.

The Apostle Paul in Galatians wrote that the purpose of the Mosaic Law was to cause sin to increase (Romans 5). In Hebrews 7, Paul writes that the Mosaic Law was useless and worthless in that it could never save anyone. Paul also stated in Hebrews that Jesus is a Priest, not of Levi, but His is an everlasting Priesthood of Melchizedek, and Paul adds: where this is a change of Priesthood, there is a change of Law. It that same chapter Paul declares that the Mosaic Law was useless and worthless in that it could not save anyone. Thus it is clear that we are not under the Mosaic Covenant, but of the laws mentioned in the New Covenant. My salvation is truly a gift from God because I believed His Son, my Lord Jesus. To me, being a Christian is all joy.

Elibeth, it is hard for me to believe that God is telling you to tell us to be 'obedient' by keeping the laws of the Mosaic Covenant. I would think that God knows His own Theology as laid out in the New Testament.

The difference between the two Covenants is that in the Mosaic Covenant, we must save ourselves by obeying 613 laws as they are applicable to each of us (Some were just for for men, some just for women, some for both, just for the priests, some pertaining to the land).

The reason you made this mistake is because you believe that Jesus was addressing all peoples including we Christians, He was not. Jesus never openly taught the New
Covenant, at best, Jesus occasionally hinted about a New Covenant was coming (and it did come into existence upon His death, at that moment God the Father annihilated the Mosaic Covenant (fulfilling the prediction in Zechariah 11: 7-14). Note that Zec 11:1-6 prophesies the destruction of the Jewish Temple that was built under Herod.

Jesus, as the true Son of God, the only begotten God of God the Father, lived under the Mosaic Law and He fulfilled all of that Law. And as the true chief Rabbi of Israel, by being the only begotten Son of the Father, He taught His fellow Jews to do the same. If you read the gospels, you would see that Jesus faithfully preached only to His fellow Jews, He never reached out to the gentiles. Had Jesus preached the New Covenant during His life, for him to do so, that would have been a violation of the Mosaic Covenant, and that would have been a sin, and Jesus would not have been the unblemished Lamb of God, whom takes away the sins of the world, through His innocent blood shed on the cross. Upon His death on the cross, all of the Law was fulfilled by Jesus, but something peculiar and powerful had occurred, instead of receiving all the promises for keeping the whole Mosaic Law, Jesus took upon His self the punishment due us, and upon Jesus death God annihilated the Mosaic Covenant and established the New Covenant. These are mutually exclusive Covenants.

As for the rich young man, Jesus pointed out that this young rich man, who most likely came to the closest any of any human (besides Jesus) to keeping the entire Mosaic Law. But he failed on just one of Moses 613 commandments, He could not give up all his wealth to follow God, a form of idolatry. This young rich ruler was a person whom we would call good man of excellent character. This was born out by the fact that he came to Jesus, for anyone practicing sin would not have come to Jesus. Look at the reaction of the Apostles when Jesus said:

Mt 19:23-26

23 And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"

And looking at them Jesus said to them, " With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." NASU

Yes, even the Apostles saw that this wonderful young rich man was exceptionally good in regard to keeping the Mosaic Law, so much so that they were astonished and they feared "Who then can be saved". Jesus agreed that even they had cause to be astonished, because they too were under the Mosaic Law.

But Jesus knew His mission on Earth, that He would keep the entire Mosaic law, then instead of receiving all the blessings of keeping the Mosaic law, He allowed Himself to suffer the penalty of one having violated the Mosaic Law, and not sparing Himself, sweating blood, He gave Himself up to the penalty due all people who have violated THE LAW of Moses, He suffered upon his self the stripes, the humiliation, the death that we all which we deserved. Upon His death God annihilated the the Mosaic Covenant in its'' entirety, and God established a New Covenant, which Jesus explained to His Apostles plainly in words and from predictions in the OT.

The Difference is that under the Mosaic covenant, we had to save ourselves by doing all the works of the Mosaic Laws as it required of us.

Under the New Covenant, Jesus Christ purchased us, gave us the indwelling Holy Spirit, and we who accept atoning blood of Jesus, receives God's gift of eternal life, the life abundantly good, it is ours. And we now live under the laws of Jesus Christ. The marvelous thing about the Laws of Christ is that by them - God keeps us.

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