must hear: The Achilles Heel of the Chinese Church

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=111611111800

China may very well have grown the largest Christian church population on earth, but China has a problem! One hundred million people make up a growing, thriving church in China except for one little problem—they kill their children. Some churches even pay for abortions.

The conscience of this nation is dead cold with respect to human life, and the Christian church isn't helping. But what can these Christians do? The first pro-life ministry in China is being launched, and this may be one of the most important Christian needs on the earth today.

Kevin Swanson interviews an insider who has first-hand information on the inner workings of the house church movement (representing some 100 million people). This remarkable interview statuses one of the most important developments for the kingdom of God in the 21st century.

I did not take that at all from the interview. The man Swanson interviewed explained how many christians in China break the governmental rule of only one child and have 4-5-6-7 children and pay the price for it. I was encouraged.

Also, I always wondered with china's one child policy how strictly that was enforced.

If there are christians who are killing their children in China, if there are churches indeed who are paying for the abortions - I think that needs to be brought to light to know how to help financially and how to pray. I had no clue about what was going on there - how could I pray?

I did not think the entire china church movement was demonized. As well, the China church is not united so you will have different "sects" there.

Greg, when I read your response to the OP I thought you were unsympathetic to the issue.

Then I listened to the audio, checked out the speaker and then was given pause - I reckon I would like to ask Swanson a few questions myself! In any case I think this is an issue that needs careful examining, apart from Swanson.

If the Chinese church does pay for abortions why is it the western church has not raised this issue with them??? The interviewee said how the early missionaries to that country performed abortions on the women! If indeed, what Swanson is true, or half true, I would guess there is enough blame to go around...

In defense of the Chinese church - assuming they are aborting their babies with no qualms - could it be they are ignorant, like the American church was before roe v wade? Like it or not, it was the Catholic leadership in this country who raised the consciousness of the Evangelical church to the horrors of abortion back in the 1960s. We were ignorant. I remember that.

In any case, I am going to do some research. We have a friend who travels that area a lot - lives there for brief periods of time - will ask him when he comes back to the states.

While this topic does need to get sorted out, I wonder if it is possible to delete the words "They kill their children" from the title page as soon as possible. I am concerned about a Chinese brother or sister coming across this forum and seeing it. We ourselves would be deeply offended if others spread this kind of reputation about us - especially if they are fellow Christians.

The words seem intentionally sensational - tabloid talk. That's a clue, isn't it?

Let's be careful not to damage our Lord's name in this way. "Hallowed by thy name".

Diane

I have not walked along the streets of China, nor have served in missions there. I know nothing about the inward workings of the government and therefore my only knowledge is what is fed to me by media, missionary reports or other reports.

To conclude so fast that this is a Satanic attack or that the issue in America is far worse would be erroneous. The brother being interviewed has seen things and experienced things in China we have not....I for one cannot make any statement about this report or judge its accuracy. However, I must pray about it. I must ask the Lord to let truth prevail.

Will somebody please step forward with some credible evidence on these allegations.

Blaine, I suggest that this is a bunny trail. For one thing, the “church” in China, like the church of America, can represent just about anything and everyone. There is the state church which, to a large extent, is merely a puppet of the government.

Somebody is going to be able to prove where there is abortion in the church in China - and then you will lose your case. You merely end up with an unresolvable debate.

There's abortions going on in our churches too! Even here, our calling isn't to go around stamping out all evil - but to be witnesses of the good news.

We'd do better to empathize with the suffering and deprivations among those living in the heavily populated country.

We have a calling, and it is not to go sifting for faults on the other side of the world – assuming that it is our lofty mission to “stand” against it.

The more prudent mission for those concerned here would be to listen to what Gordon is saying - and examine the source itself – the writer. Surely the title is a clue in itself! It’s not how a credible reporter should form his words. It’s pejorative and sensational. It stirs our emotions.

By giving attention to a faulty source, we merely fuel it and divert our attention from those we are called to love – in our immediate circle.

We all know – all too well - the risk of turning a prayer mission into a juicy gossip chain. It only ends up in descent and division.

So I’d say: Drop it!

Diane

I listened to the whole interview, and one thing was glaringly obvious-- the total lack of PROOF that what this "Mark" was saying is true. Yes, he made a lot of shocking claims (as did Swanson), but was there any evidence, let alone proof, that what he said about the Church is true? The simple answer is NO.

They point out the wickedness of China's "state" abortions, and how they don't value life, but then they try to act like the Chinese Christians have the same outlook on it, again, with no PROOF.

Swanson says re. the horrific story of the 2 yr. old girl run over twice and ignored by 18 people, "That’s what’s happening with Chinese CHRISTIANS AND NON-CHRISTIANS ALIKE;" Proof? Zip. "It’s very possible there were CHRISTIANS walking over the body and ignoring the body of that dying, little, two year old girl..." You can make any ridiculous charge against anyone and then say that it's "very possible".

"Mark" says that the missionaries in the early 1900's were performing abortions on the Chinese Christains; Proof? None given.

Whatever happened to 1 Timothy 5:19: "Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses."? Deuteronomy 19:15? 2 Corinthians 13:1?

Now it could be that some, maybe all, of these allegations are true. I highly doubt it, but it might be true, and I could be wrong. If it is true, I will stand corrected. But we need to see some credible evidence of it, not just some persons say-so. Until then it should be seen as a specious accusation.

Caps for emphasis only; no shouting intended.
Creation7

I am like most of you in seriously doubting these reports without credible evidence. Isn't that is what we are supposed to do as followers of Jesus Christ?

Believe the best of folks unless it is clearly proven otherwise. WOW... wouldn't that change the way things operate!

In doing some research myself I did find there were many abortions being performed on Christians. However, these were performed by force by the state on ladies who did not want them. In essence the Chinese government physically FORCED abortions on Christian parents.

I suppose this should not be surprising that the enemy (I am not calling the Chinese government the enemy... it is the spiritual entities behind the actions) would want to kill the offspring of the followers of Jesus!. Of course the enemy would. Think of Herod, Pharaoh, Hitler, etc. they all had the same spirit.

I will share a link here with an article from a group that is composed largely of Chinese citizens living in mainland China and overseas. It details of a forced abortion campaign by the state on Chinese Christians. It breaks your heart, brings tears to the eyes, and moves one to pray for these precious believers.

The article can be found at:

http://anticcp.org/61-christian-women-forced-to-have-abortions-in-china.html

As you will see, this site is a good resource for getting at least some factual and objective information about what is happening in the Chinese church.

You will find the following three articles under the WHY ANTI-CCP Tab.

Forced Abortion

Riot Spread To More Townships in South China Over One-child Policy
Forced Abortions Under China’s One-child Policy Spurs Riots
61 Christian Women Forced to Have Abortions in China

Strength and blessings to our Chinese brothers and to you SI family!

I emailed Kevin Swanson, and this is what he sent me in response,

"Hi Ricky,

Looks like a pretty thoughtful exchange on the site. I adjusted my title. . . wasn't entirely happy with it myself. But the timing is just right to get this issue in front of our Chinese brothers and sisters. Are American Christians doing worse than Chinese? With all the compromise, etc., here, I wouldn't doubt it. But the kingdom of God is worldwide, and we need to keep pressing the Kingly Claims of Christ everywhere!

God bless you my friend!

Kevin"

Dear rickyearle,

Thanks for posting this appeal to help and pray for the underground church in China.

I saw a news article not so long ago of a women and her husband being interviewed, the woman was pregnant with their second child, the government found out right towards the end of her pregnancy and they literally held her down kicked and punched her in the stomach then gave the baby a lethal injection to kill it.

As for the church I don’t know if abortions is a blind spot among some of them, or if its fear of the government and what they will do to them and their children, but I thank God for these lovely people who have set up this ministry to help those who are standing against this one child policy and having many children to follow Gods word and are trying to shed some light on this issue amongst the body of Christ.

The Lord bless them and their ministry and the dear Christians that are standing for Christ.