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question about a book i just bought, unsure about it?

sermonindex Dec 28, 2011

I just bought a book by jessie penn Lewis called War on the Saints and i know their was a post already locked on this site about it, so i am not trying to bring up anything at all to cause confusion. But, as i have read the book i have sensed a very strange presence you can say or feeling that i am very unsure about, as i read the book their does seem to be some truth in it, but it seems to make me feel demons have so much power when I know God is sovereign and in complete control of a believers life. To be honest with you I always get this presence or feeling when it comes to going to a apostolic church or i guess you call a pentecostal church, it doesn't seem right to me for some reason. But, anyways i really am unsure if i should continue to read this book, anyone can give me some wisdom on this at all.

sermonindex Dec 28, 2011

i am sorry for all the posts, i have no clue why my computer just posted all of these, sorry.

sermonindex Dec 28, 2011

if someone coulddelete those for me i really would appreciate it, i deleted the title and the rest of the text posted as you can see i abbreviated as a. Those all posted out as the same as this one.

sermonindex Dec 28, 2011

forgive me, i asked in the "a" posts, what you were doing.....oh! my fault. forgive me please, love, neil

and ps. also forgive me that i cant answer your heartfelt inquiry as i know nothing of Lewis, except this in general, if something 'rings' wrong in the Spirit, fret not, just stop, thats why God gave us His Indwelling Spirit as Consuler.

Z
Zionshield Dec 31, 2011

Your description of a "strange presence" doesn't necessarily disqualify the book. When the Holy Spirit disapproves of something He will let you know in the depths of your spirit where He resides, not with the manifestation you describe. I owned that book years ago and gave it to a warrior that could use it better than I. I haven't had it since, but wish that I did. Lewis is in the same school of thought as Madame Guyon and Watchman Nee. If you find it difficult to understand you may need to leave it be for a while. If in doubt I would suggest you leave it be. There are many things that occur in spiritual warfare that she experienced that we may not know or understand in ordinary circumstances. If I'm not mistaken she wrote that on the heals of the Welsh revival in early 1900's with Evan Roberts.

R
roadsign Dec 31, 2011

I have both the abridged and the full version of the book. I do recommend it - as I think she addresses a legitimate issue. She has a particular emphasis which I think still has a place in Christian dialogue today - especially among those who emphasize relying on the Spirit. She demonstrates how this teaching can become dangerously misguided. I have seen some of the phenomena she addresses in people whom I know who have been caught up in unauthentic revival/renewal movements.

Another book I have by her is called "The Spiritual Warfare" which I highly recommend.

I would likely find it interesting reading these books again - 15 years later - and see how I read her now.

PS The book has nothing to do with the locking of the thread. It was another concern that developed - unfortunately.

Diane

M
mguldner Dec 31, 2011

My philosophy is if you are uncertain about something don't put it in your body, this works well with food and doctrine lol ;)

L
Lysa Dec 31, 2011


John,

Matthew is right but it's not necessarily the book, I don't think YOU should read any book until you are more stable in the Lord. Why do this to yourself, you don't even know if you're saved and now you want to go and read a penn-lewis book?

Myself and others have told you this before, STOP the insanity of reading every Tom, Dick and Mary. Do you even read the Bible? Please begin to only read the Bible, get a parallel edition of KJV and NIV or something else along with TONS of paper and pencils/pens and read THAT from morning till night for at least six months to a year and begin to set aside time to pray for everyone but yourself to see the needs of others. I love you in the Lord brother but there is no magic pill (or book) that is going to set you free but only the power of the Holy Spirit.

God bless you,
Lisa

sermonindex Dec 31, 2011

I have to differ from my sister Lisa on this.

I have had periods of darkness when the Bible remained shut but some light was given as to my condition by spiritual writers. The Lord leads us to the ones who will give benefit in these circumstanes so I agree on caution and not to be running to and fro searching for answers. At times of the worse darkness, there are a few who helped me and JP-L is one.

I found that when there was a book which would give me light, the enemy tried to stop me from reading it. I would find it hard to get into and would be tempted to give up but once I knew this was happening I made the effort to continue and was blessed. I believe that the enemy tries to stop believers reading War on the Saints more than any other book due to the explicit knowledge she gained of him during the revivals.

If we are sincerely seeking a deeper walk or indeed to be restored to the presence of Christ, and trust the Lord to speak to us through whatever means He choses, waiting on Him for confirmation, He will guide.

sermonindex Dec 31, 2011

jessie penn Lewis called War on the Saints

Dear Brother, this book is an excellent one. Jesse-Penn Lewis co-authored it with Evan Roberts who was the main person used in the famous 1904 welsh revival. He helped write and warn against exceess's and demonic counterfeits that happen in true revival. Not all the theology in the book is 100% perfect. But there is much in the book that is needed to be read especially in light of alot of extreme charismatic influence in the evangelical church.

R
roadsign Dec 31, 2011

Hi John,
When any of us posts a question on an open forum, we are going to get all kinds of responses. I see that Lisa is referring to former posts – which helps inform her response. She has a valid point: you don’t want to be like the sand drifting here and there leaning on people’s opinions. You do want to get grounded in the word and in the God of the word.

I re-read your first post here, and in view of your present religious context as you describe it – I feel quite strongly that Jesse Penn-Lewis’ writings can be of valuable help to you in this grounding process. Of course you need to read the bible and trust God, but let’s admit, we are all read our bible through a set of lens – which itself may need adjusting. Your church context is shaping your lens. And based on your words, I suspect that it is the very lens that Penn-Lewis is addressing – and rightly so. For that reason, I believe you could gain needed discernment by reading her book. She encourages you to think - to use your mind. And you need to gain that skill especially in a religious environment that leans towards an over-entanglement in the spirit world - at the expense of one’s cognitive facilities - in other words: passivity of the mind.

PS I just tried looking for her “The Spiritual Warfare” book on line – because it is shorter and more concise, but I can’t find it. But you can purchase it at amazon.com. It may be the easier way to go for you.

I’ve read a lot of books on spiritual warfare – and I still see Penn-Lewis as a needed balance.

Diane

sermonindex Dec 31, 2011

Brother I do not know the issues that you are experiencing but I stand with Lisa in her excellent wisdom to you. Read the scripturres and they alone. If you are looking for freedom only Jesus and his word can set you free. No other book by a human author or sermon by a man can do what Jesus has said he can do through his word.

Do what Lisa suggested. Get a contemporary tranlation of scripture and pray and read and read and pray. Cry out to God for revelation from his word. Even if it does not come keep reading and praying. I recommend the gospel of John. You camp in that gospel until you see Christ revealed to you. You be tenacious and cling to Jesus. You spend several weeks camping in the words of Jesus and I believe you will find the truth that will set you free.

The New Testament is the one book that brought hope and freedom to the persecuted church. It has been the one book that has brought joy to my life.

Wi be praying for you.

Blaine

R
roadsign Dec 31, 2011

Read the scripturres and they alone.


Blaine, I’m afraid I cannot let your statement pass unchallenged – after having read the words of Oswald Chambers, author of “My Utmost for His Highest”. He wrote:

“When people refer to a man as ‘a man of one book,’ meaning the Bible, he is generally found to be a man of multitudinous books, which simply isolates the one Book to its proper grandeur. The man who reads only the Bible does not, as a rule, know it, or human life.” (From Chamber’s biography, “Abandoned to God” by D. McCasland).


Chambers once told his students: “More than half of the side-tacks and all the hysterical phenomena that seize whole communities of people, like a pestiferous epidemic, from time to time, arise from spiritual laziness and intellectual sloth on the part of so-called religious teachers. There are a host of Holiness adventurers whose careers would suddenly end, if vigorous sanctified saints were abroad.”

This is the very issue Penn-Lewis addresses. To suggest that her work is unnecessary is, I fear, to naively contribute to the prevalence of side-tracks among the people of God – and the very same heresy the sidetracked a wonderful revival in the past.

Chambers himself read widely, and he demanded it of his bible school students. We also see this habit in the writings and biographies of outstanding Christian leaders: They typically had a large reading repertoire and knowledge base. One of the most outstanding examples, I think, is Richard Wurmbrandt, himself.

Here’s my thought: If the Bible was enough then we would not need this website and its wealth of resources provided by the great saints. But I suggest that it is the neglect of these “gifts” to the church that enables heresy to flourish – just as Chambers claimed.

Therefore, having read her book, I feel it is best not to discourage anyone from reading Jesse Penn-Lewis, but instead pray that God will quicken its truth thereby.

Diane


sermonindex Dec 31, 2011

Thanks for the responses i was wondering if i had made the right decision picking it up or not. I actually started to read it more last night and i have got a better understanding of what she is saying now and she makes some very good points and I think she is really trying to point out that we need to beware of spiritual deception in our own lives too to make sure it is tested and examined to be of God according to his word, so i am actually feeling a little better now about it now. I thought at first that she was confusing how to know what is from God at all, but i had read only the first 49 pages or so, now i am seeing it better now. To the rest here on the site i do agree with you about getting in the Bible, i actually am heavily convicted myself that the scriptures can't be as it has been in my life put to the side at the end of the day or before i go to the bed including prayer, I need to put prayer, worship and the scriptures first in my day and not lack luster, but put my whole heart into it. I know i need to do this, but i will admit i am struggling to do so. I have let sports, family, computer, friends and many things get in my way of being alone with the Lord, but i have noticed without His Spirit i don't have much hope to stay being disciplined. I am going to try putting the Lord and his word first in the day before everything and then if reading some other book later or dvd or sermon or whatever then i guess i will do so. But it never would hurt to read only the scripture and to hear from God. Jessie Penn Lewis definitely reveal some deep stuff in their that i think s going to help me. I also bought e.m bounds spiritual warfare, hopefully that will be helpful. Thanks for the responses.

sermonindex Jan 1, 2012

I guess Oswald Chambers and Jessie Penn Lewis were not aware of the persecuted church. But then it probably did not exist in their day. I find it interesting that the suffering church in Iran, Eritrea, and China are sustained by one book alone and that is the Bible. Other than prayer the persecuted church cries for one book, the Bible.

It is interesting that the countries that are seeing revival are seeing it through prayer and the word. Here we are with all of this vast theological knowledge and no power.

Kind of makes one wonder? I think I will stick with the book that is working for the persecuted. And its not Jessie Penn Lewis.

Blaine Scogin

sermonindex Jan 1, 2012

"To be honest with you I always get this presence or feeling when it comes to going to a apostolic church or I guess you call a pentecostal church, it doesn't seem right to me for some reason."

Oh your not alone brother.

Just that you said you don't feel right when you go to a Pentecostal church, I too have had people tell me that they had a bad feeling about a Pentecostal church that I was thinking of going to. But I dove in head first and I don't regret it. All the feelings that other people were having against it were their feelings of the unknown. What they could not comprehend frightened them. But you see in those days, I was searching for what the early church received at Pentecost, so I was right at home when I walked through those doors.

As for this book, read it and see what happens. I am glad that you got your antennas up so that you don't become deceived.

Let us know what you got out of the book.

God bless

sermonindex Jan 1, 2012

yah i will do, but the pentcostal churches and apostolic churches that i have become to get that feeling were the ones that seemed to focus so much on the gifts of the spirit especially tongues and the baptism of the holy Spirit, to me the main focus should be Christ not necessarily how we benefit so much with certain gifts, not everyone has the same gifts so i think they are wrong that all will have the same gifts. I am not 100 percent sure about all pentecostals, but I think Penn is definitely hitting on the fact that their real and false manifestations of God, and from my understanding I have heard people speak of both of real and false tongues. I actually had a deliverance minister who seemed pretty good biblically, but told me he sensed i had a problem with constipation, no idea where he got that, but he was definitely wrong, and he had a huge list of names for evil spirits that i don't think our in the Bible. I think she also talks about these things. But, anyways the book is pretty good the more i read it and i can't always go by feelings. Brother you very well might be right about reading the Bible alone.

Y
Yeshuasboy Jan 1, 2012

I remember listening to a sermon on here a few weeks back and the speaker said the same thing - think it was Willie Mullan, but I could be wrong.

However, although not recalling who the speaker was, I did do one thing - I messaged an old friend, and told him that that particular book which I gave to him a few yrs back (because it was just collecting dust at my home), to burn it because of what this preacher said.

Anyway, I can't recall if it was Mullan or not... I think it was, but I could be wrong. But, as soon as I listened to what he briefly said about that book, I recalled that I had given it to this man, and immediately messaged him, apologizing that I gave it to him, and again asking him to burn it. I know he got the message I sent him, but I did not receive any response from him. Anyway, that's what happened to me just a few weeks back.

R
roadsign Jan 1, 2012

I think I will stick with the book that is working for the persecuted. And its not Jessie Penn Lewis.

This is true. Jessie Penn Lewis was not talking to the persecuted church, but to a genuine issue that arose in her day. So, where that particular issue does not exist, her material is not necessary. My own church is an example. Therefore I would not recommend it to anyone in my church. It is not relevant. We have other issues – issues that are also serious barriers to the Word of God. And thankfully there are perceptive saints addressing those issues.

Someone once noted that the scripture is best understood in persecution – and I can see that. Much of it was written under persecution. Praise God, he has given us a Word that thrives best and most purely in persecution.

Diane


Y
Yeshuasboy Jan 1, 2012

I just re-listened to Mullan's 2 sermons on demonology, but I didn't come across the quote. I think the sermon in my phone though, so when I ever come across it again, I'll toss up the link, and the time in the sermon where the quote can be found, but basically the teacher said that "War on the Saints" was a book that somewhat was glorifying to the powers of darkness.
Now, I never read the book myself, but only a few chapters, and it didn't really interest me over a short season so I set it down.
I don't know Penn-Lewis, meaning I haven't fully read her material, nor researched her biograhies in any way; and, I haven't heard neither Mr Daniel, Washer, Akanni, Poonen, and some other men of God in our generation quote her material either... And I can say, for what I know thus far, neither did Paris Reidhead, Ian Thomas, Harry Ironside, Vance Havner, Aiden Tozer, and a few others from all the sermons and notes I've collected in the past.
Please note, that I'm not attempting to say something negative about Penn-Lewis indirectly, but I am just stating some facts from what I've heard, and haven't heard, from men much more Godly than myself.

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