Do humans deserve the suffering they experience?

This was written in the context of a converstaion about suffering. Is it true to say that humans deserve the suffering they experience? What do you think?

"If we could see how dead, asleep and lost we are in this dark, tragic world without Him we would probably understand better the suffering needed to arouse and prod us back to Christ. "Before I was afflicted, I went astray" -David. Even in our suffering there is no other hope. "Though He slay me, yet I will trust in Him." -Job Ultimately what is the only loss that cannot be regained? Job received all back, including children though not the ones he lost, but he would see them in Abraham's bosom. Abraham knew that even his only son would not be lost ultimately upon the sharp edge of the blade. God is the true sufferer. We cannot say the suffering we have, we do not deserve. For if we did not deserve hell we could not have received heaven as a gift."

That is what I believe.

Good article. Who's the author?

These are such hard sayings that without a revelation of God to reveal these things to us we cannot hope for them. It is one thing to read them and think hmmmm, but unless God reveal them to our hearts and charge us with His Spirit to them they are hard to accept because it is not natural to the human being.

As I read the title to your thread I thought about the sacrifice that Christ suffered for me personally on the cross because of my sin putting Him there...I am glad that I don't get what I deserve, I deserve hell and eternal suffering and yet because of who HE is I receive life!

Thank you for sharing this, what a wonderful reminder of how blessed we are. Yes there are times in my life when I have suffered on a small scale but I did not suffer alone...Jesus was/is right there with me each step of my journey!

God Bless
mary

Amen to the thread and amen to MaryJane!

Today I was reminded of this:

This is a trustworthy saying, and everyone should accept it: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”—and I am the worst of them all. But God had mercy on me so that Christ Jesus could use me as a prime example of his great patience with even the worst sinners. Then others will realize that they, too, can believe in him and receive eternal life. All honor and glory to God forever and ever! He is the eternal King, the unseen one who never dies; he alone is God. Amen. -1 Timothy 1:15-17

MaryJane,

That was very good.

So the question may be better asked this way: Does Man deserve Jesus Christ?

No, but what a wonderful gift He is from the Father.

Pilgrim

No no maryjane,

I really like that question, man suffers oh so much, I say that from my own personal suffering also which has been very very difficult, and I have questioned it many of times, oh yes, I have questioned such suffering many of times. It hurts to the core, suffering is almost like severe depression, it hurts all over, yes there is hope, yes there is trust, but when walls of all sort come crashing down, all of our securities come crashing down, we r left to a situation that we have never been taught or acclimated to in life.

Just like job, when job said he curse the day he was burn, sounds like to me in reality, he didnt see the point in living or going on anymore. Suffering is that deep.

My conclusion, Christ prepared a solution, yes, but ultimately if he could endure such turmoil and grief, then he can n will give us the light and strength to take hold of him.

greetings pilgrim777

you asked:So the question may be better asked this way: Does Man deserve Jesus Christ?

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Not sure if you really wanted me to answer but in my unimportant opinion "we" do not deserve anything from God. The word deserve implies to me that something received is some how earned...nothing anyone of us can or does do could ever earn the love of our Lord. He gives life to us because of who HE is, because of HIS awesomeness not anything to do with us. This is just my thoughts though and as such mean nothing (smile)

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Greetings ManofGod0000

I was not posting my response as one against the question being asked but rather what the Lord has shown me over years of seeking to know HIM and HIS heart on such things that if I keep my eyes fixed on eternity there is still hope and joy. I realize there are many who suffer sorrows, pain, heartache to varying degrees in this life...I have traveled some of those roads but the difference for me, that I have seen is this, I never travel the journey in life alone. Jesus has been and is always with me. There is much comfort in HIS presence and fellowship even in the most painful darkest hours HE holds me...

For me its learning to fix my eyes and life on HIM, to learn daily to die to self and walk with HIM. If I keep my focus on things that are happening in the world around me, even gut wrenching things then I loose all hope, despair sets in and I walk alone because I separate myself from HIM. However if I keep my life submitted and walking with the LORD no matter what is happening in the here and now, well then there is real light and life to be had in JESUS. As I said before this is just what I am seeing and what the Lord has shown me...

God bless
mary

Thanks for your responses. In a sense I wanted to check my understanding of this concept. That quote and the following ones were in response to someone who does not agree that humans deserve the suffering they experience. I understand the wording is harder to cope with, but if we agree that Hell is what we rightfully deserve, then any less suffering would also be earned.

"What is the wages of sin? Is there anyone who has not sinned? Is this wage something deserved, earned? Isn't it true that we cannot earn heaven? Isn't it true that Christ took our place because we deserved what he received for us? Human beings are by nature depraved enemies of God as described in Scripture, but God rather than giving us what we deserve had mercy (which is withholding from us what we should get) and by His grace (which is giving us something we don't deserve) sent Jesus because of His great love. If we could deserve heaven it would not be a gift, we do not deserve heaven. God can be with us in the midst of suffering...suffering is not the problem, seperation from God is the problem. Did not this God destroy the entire race except for one family in the flood? Was He just in doing so? Didn't He have Joshua kill every man, woman and child in Canaan? Was He loving and just? It is the greater picture of God's purpose that brings meaning in what appears to be tradgedy. We like Job can only place our hand over our mouth because such things are more than we can grasp."

"I believe we must make a distinction between God as Ceator and God as Father. He is not the father of all , but only those that have been given the authority to become the children of God as stated in John 1 or 2. We as humans don't like to think that God has a right to do with His creation as He chooses and is right in what he chooses to do. We think God is like us and is subject to the rules we are which is of course false. You think God has abandoned us. No, He invaded this planet to win us back. You did not respond to the statement that is the crux of the matter. You seem to see suffering and death as the worst part of human existence. It is not, it is temporary and it can be endured with God's presence. It also drives us to God or otherwise a rejection of Him. If a person can see Jesus, God in the flesh, the personification of everything praise worthy..love, grace, wisdom, justice etc.. and reject Him that person is as Paul said accursed...there is nothing redeemable about the person that has finalized that decision. The worst state in humanity is to be seperated from this Being that is Life. Think very basic...He is life support, oxygen, blood, food, water (these are metaphors of course) We cannot have life apart fron Him."

Ultimately once I understood that there is no good existance apart from God I had to come to terms with why God made so many that would end up in Hell. Two things helped me. One was realizing that when God created man he created s being that had no ability to be good within himself and therefore could not otherwise avoid Hell without God's intervention...not if man were to have his own volition. To create the groundwork for love and grace there had to be this risky and tragic scenario. Something I understood from CS Lewis's "Problem of Pain" that helped grapple with the reality of Hell also is that the man is not at all what he was when he was born. His choices to reject Christ and embrace rebellion and self thousands of times cements into what he becomes, a hellish shell of what he was meant to be. The word perish is the perfect choice word in John 3:16. I think of the word ripe as used in the old testament and revelation describing people who would not repent and as they suffered God's wrath they ripened by stiffening their necks and embracing their sin. The Canaanites had 400 years to repent before Joshua was sent. The future (or present) generations of earth are referred to as the grapes of wrath that God is waiting for them to reach their full measure of evil. I've said a great deal now. If anyone has made their way through this and can make sense of it if there is any wrong thinking in it I'd like to know. Thank you.